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Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million

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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#121 » by El Duderino » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:19 am

jakecronus8 wrote:The Bucks spent roughly 259 million dollars today to be worse next year and people are acting like it’s a big win. I don’t get it.


It was bad timing to have four of the five starters and the 6th man on the team all being free agents at the same time, in a league which was swimming in cap space.
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#122 » by rrayy » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:19 am

LuessiT wrote:I'm pretty sure I've read that you can S&T a player even after you waived him. I'll get a quote on it.

Edit:

A sign-and-trade deal can be made with a free agent who has been renounced (see question number 39), as long as all the above criteria are met.


Tada. So this gets you another 700k (1600k - min roster hold (900k)) which is exactly how much you need.

Edit 2: To even think we didn't crunch the numbers on this is kinda stupid tbh.
So are you saying they don't lose the TPE because that is the question here.
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#123 » by RiotPunch » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:20 am

skones wrote:
RiotPunch wrote:
skones wrote:None of us here saw those Delly/Snell/Plumlee/etc deals as awful when they were signed. None of us. Because an NBA GM signed them, we were all completely blindsided when they went south.

That's a load of crap.


oh?

Well, I know I hated the Snell and Plumlee signings at the time, so to say none of us saw them as awful is not totally true. :)

I was admittedly in on the Delly kool-aid drinking suckfest at the time, though.

EDIT:

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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#124 » by LuessiT » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:21 am

rrayy wrote:
LuessiT wrote:I'm pretty sure I've read that you can S&T a player even after you waived him. I'll get a quote on it.

Edit:

A sign-and-trade deal can be made with a free agent who has been renounced (see question number 39), as long as all the above criteria are met.


Tada. So this gets you another 700k (1600k - min roster hold (900k)) which is exactly how much you need.

Edit 2: To even think we didn't crunch the numbers on this is kinda stupid tbh.
So are you saying they don't lose the TPE because that is the question here.


We don't even have the TPE when we ink Hill and Lopez so obviously not.
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#125 » by Daver » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:23 am

Wow ouch sixers get harris horford and richardson today wow
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#126 » by rrayy » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:24 am

RiotPunch wrote:Well, I know I hated the Snell and Plumlee signings at the time, so to say none of us saw them as awful is not totally true. :)

I was admittedly in on the Delly kool-aid drinking suckfest at the time, though.
George Hill is none of those players and is better than all of them. For him to use them as example to prove that HIll will never be better than his contract is beyond stupid.

Quit calling people stupid, STAY ON TOPIC Now you are gone for awhile. MD
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#127 » by rrayy » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:25 am

LuessiT wrote:
rrayy wrote:
LuessiT wrote:I'm pretty sure I've read that you can S&T a player even after you waived him. I'll get a quote on it.

Edit:



Tada. So this gets you another 700k (1600k - min roster hold (900k)) which is exactly how much you need.

Edit 2: To even think we didn't crunch the numbers on this is kinda stupid tbh.
So are you saying they don't lose the TPE because that is the question here.


We don't even have the TPE when we ink Hill and Lopez so obviously not.
That is what I wanted to know. Thank you.
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#128 » by All The Bucks » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:27 am

Daver wrote:Wow ouch sixers get harris horford and richardson today wow


They already had Harris. And Butler and Reddick are gone while Horford and Richardson were added. They very well may be essentially where they started. Could be a little worse, could be a little better.

The only sure thing is they are a heckuva lot more expensive.
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#129 » by Coach Carter » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:29 am

Love this man,

just seems so humble and plays the right way, felt he separated himself from everyone else when the going got tough with his experience and poise. Let's pray he stays healthy, if so he can contribute the next two years. Any news on that 3rd year being a team?
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#130 » by RandyBreuer » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:30 am

Ridiculous Skones, myself and others said that Snell signing was terrible, as was the case with many of the other signings Hammond did over the years.
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#131 » by thonnisbeastley » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:30 am

rrayy wrote:
skones wrote:
rrayy wrote:Translation: I lost the argument.


Not at all. By your own logic it's useless to speculate on anything (which is the entire point of this board) because, well, like, you can't see into the future man.

But wow, I'm sure Middleton's going to really earn that huge deal, so is Lopez for all four years, and now Hill! Are you even looking at the numbers on these deals? Use common sense.
I'm not the one proclaiming the future. You are:

skones wrote:Being a two year contract isn't the point. It's about the value being greater than dollars spent. That's what good organizations do year after year. Horst has CLEARLY demonstrated he's incapable of getting that. That's a problem, that's a massive red flag.
You clearly claim Hill will not be worth the dollars spent. You are the one claiming that because of that Horst is incompetent. All I am saying is that we have no idea how he is going to play therefore we have no idea what his value will be in relation to the money spent.

Edited out comment. Post on the subject not derogatory on the poster. MD

Well Hill just turned 33. Most PG lose the majority of their game by that time, or apparent regression has occurred. What makes him great is his athleticism. That certainly won't be as strong as it was last season by the end of this contract. Keeping Brogdon and paying the tax was a far better option.
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#132 » by skones » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:30 am

RiotPunch wrote:
skones wrote:
RiotPunch wrote:That's a load of crap.


oh?

Well, I know I hated the Snell and Plumlee signings at the time, so to say none of us saw them as awful is not totally true. :)

I was admittedly in on the Delly kool-aid drinking suckfest at the time, though.

EDIT:

Image


I didn't think I needed the green front for that one. I was pretty loud and proud against hating all three as were many others.
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#133 » by LuessiT » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:34 am

Just for the record since I wasn't around when the Hill debate started as far as I have deducted, we're doing the following moves so far:

1) Waive Hill. IDK if he waives his guarantee or it gets taken of our cap once we sign him to a contract but it doesn't really matter
2) Waive & stretch Leuer
3) Waive everyone's rights except Middletons including Brogdons
4) Sign Hill to the 3/29m deal starting at ~9.2m
5) Sign Lopez to the 4/52m deal starting at ~12.1m
6) S&T Brogdon for the IND package creating a TPE. Yes, you can S&T Brogdon after you waived his rights

Since we have to execute this on the 6th, things may change. I assume if the price is low enough we may dump Leuer instead of waiving and stretching him creating a ~3.2m in cap space or get back up to ~4.1m in a trade.

But for now we still have the TPE and the room MLE available.
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#134 » by RiotPunch » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:34 am

skones wrote:
RiotPunch wrote:
skones wrote:
oh?

Well, I know I hated the Snell and Plumlee signings at the time, so to say none of us saw them as awful is not totally true. :)

I was admittedly in on the Delly kool-aid drinking suckfest at the time, though.

EDIT:

Image


I didn't think I needed the green front for that one. I was pretty loud and proud against hating all three as were many others.

Went over my head, started drinking early tonight after overpaying Midds and jettisoning Brogdon to **** Indiana.
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#135 » by TroyD92 » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:37 am

LuessiT wrote:Just for the record since I wasn't around when the Hill debate started as far as I have deducted, we're doing the following moves so far:

1) Waive Hill. IDK if he waives his guarantee or it gets taken of our cap once we sign him to a contract but it doesn't really matter.
2) Waive & stretch Leuer
3) Waive everyone's rights except Middleton including Brogdons
4) Sign Hill to the 3/29m deal starting at ~9.2m
5) Sign Lopez to the 4/52m deal starting at ~12.1m
6) S&T Brogdon for the IND package creating a TPE. Yes, you can S&T Brogdon after you waived his rights

Since we have to execute this on the 6th, things may change. I assume if the price is low enough we may dump Leuer instead of waiving and stretching him creating a ~3.2m in cap space or get back up to ~4.1m in a trade.

But for now we still have the TPE and the room MLE available.


Thanks for this. I along with most people forgot that non of this can be official until the 6th.
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#136 » by skones » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:37 am

RandyBreuer wrote:Ridiculous Skones, myself and others said that Snell signing was terrible, as was the case with many of the other signings Hammond did over the years.


Follow the context of the conversation. I was clearly chiding him for the "smart gm" bs which had since been removed by MD. Every single one of those deals had A LOT of detractors. It was clearly sarcasm.
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#137 » by coolhandluke121 » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:41 am

LuessiT wrote:Just for the record since I wasn't around when the Hill debate started as far as I have deducted, we're doing the following moves so far:

1) Waive Hill. IDK if he waives his guarantee or it gets taken of our cap once we sign him to a contract but it doesn't really matter
2) Waive & stretch Leuer
3) Waive everyone's rights except Middleton including Brogdons
4) Sign Hill to the 3/29m deal starting at ~9.2m
5) Sign Lopez to the 4/52m deal starting at ~12.1m
6) S&T Brogdon for the IND package creating a TPE. Yes, you can S&T Brogdon after you waived his rights

Since we have to execute this on the 6th, things may change. I assume if the price is low enough we may dump Leuer instead of waiving and stretching him creating a ~3.2m in cap space or get back up to ~4.1m in a trade.

But for now we still have the TPE and the room MLE available.


How do you keep a TPE if you don't have Bird Rights to Brogdon? I would be shocked if that's true. Massive loophole. They can sign and trade players after they renounce them, but I think that's only if they have cap space or some other exception. You have to have some right to pay Brogdon in order to have any right to use his exception to pay someone else instead of him.
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#138 » by dsilby » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:41 am

All The Bucks wrote:
Daver wrote:Wow ouch sixers get harris horford and richardson today wow


They already had Harris. And Butler and Reddick are gone while Horford and Richardson were added. They very well may be essentially where they started. Could be a little worse, could be a little better.

The only sure thing is they are a heckuva lot more expensive.

And they got older, slower and more injury prone with Horford.
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#139 » by LuessiT » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:43 am

coolhandluke121 wrote:
LuessiT wrote:Just for the record since I wasn't around when the Hill debate started as far as I have deducted, we're doing the following moves so far:

1) Waive Hill. IDK if he waives his guarantee or it gets taken of our cap once we sign him to a contract but it doesn't really matter
2) Waive & stretch Leuer
3) Waive everyone's rights except Middleton including Brogdons
4) Sign Hill to the 3/29m deal starting at ~9.2m
5) Sign Lopez to the 4/52m deal starting at ~12.1m
6) S&T Brogdon for the IND package creating a TPE. Yes, you can S&T Brogdon after you waived his rights

Since we have to execute this on the 6th, things may change. I assume if the price is low enough we may dump Leuer instead of waiving and stretching him creating a ~3.2m in cap space or get back up to ~4.1m in a trade.

But for now we still have the TPE and the room MLE available.


How do you keep a TPE if you don't have Bird Rights to Brogdon? I would be shocked if that's true. Massive loophole. They can sign and trade players after they renounce them, but I think that's only if they have cap space or some other exception. You have to have some right to pay Brogdon in order to have any right to use his exception to pay someone else instead of him.


Maybe you're correct. I'm going to read up on it.

Edit: The quote is the following:

To qualify for a sign-and-trade, all of the following must be true:

The player must re-sign with his prior team -- a team cannot include another team's free agent in a sign-and-trade.
The player must finish the preceding season with that team (deals are no longer allowed that sign-and-trade players who are out of the league, such as the sign-and-trade that sent Keith Van Horn from Dallas to New Jersey as part of the Jason Kidd trade in 2008).
The player cannot be a restricted free agent who has signed an offer sheet with another team (see question number 42).
The team receiving the player cannot be above the "Apron" (see question number 20) at the conclusion of the trade1, 2. A team above the Apron can receive a player in a sign-and-trade if the trade reduces the team's payroll and the team finishes the trade below the Apron.
The team cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade if they have used the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception (see question number 25) that season.1
The trade must be completed prior to the first game of the regular season (sign-and-trades are not allowed once the season begins).
The player cannot be signed using the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, or any exception that cannot be used to offer a three-year contract (see question number 25).
A sign-and-trade deal can be made with a free agent who has been renounced (see question number 39), as long as all the above criteria are met.


It's interesting because if we were to execute the S&T in the fashion I posted above we couldn't actually sign Brogdon (no bird rights). That said since waiving Brogdon's cap hold (and his bird rights which allow us to go over the cap in the first place to resign him) gets us exactly where we need to, I'm pretty confident this works like I described. Or at least the Bucks FO thinks so.
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Re: Shams: George Hill returns 3 years $29 million 

Post#140 » by Licensed to Il » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:47 am

I respectfully disagree that Hill is good because of his athleticism. For NBA guards, he is average speed and has typical leaping ability. His value comes in his poise, anticipation, strength, length, pick and roll decision making, and range. I think he will age well. I do think we should watch his minutes.

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