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ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89

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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1861 » by DingleJerry » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:52 pm

If I was gambling, I'd bet Rose makes it as well. Though I agree he shouldn't. I think he'll get in and it'll be reasoned out to 'if not for the injuries' he for sure makes it, so kind of spun in a sympathetic type way to him. Feel like he'll get that benefit of the doubt due to fame level, big city exposure, and the MVP (though an undeserving one). Me, no I don't think he should be in barring a late career resurgence of some kind. Put him on the Bucks with the exact same level of performance and winning while taking away the MVP and no way he makes it.
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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1862 » by Bucksfan28 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:40 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
Bucksfan28 wrote:Seriously, check the accolades for inductees.

Imo three ASG's and an all-NBA nod is insufficient w/o a championship or college/international success. It's the individual awards Rose won that justify the discussion, especially the MVP, which I'm sure will be the crux of the decision process.


How many HOF'rs on that list had less than three years of above average play, :( didn't contribute internationally, and didn't win anything in college or the pros?


None, which is the point Im making. Rose is only getting discussed b/c of the MVP.

If you think its a sham or hes undeserving thats fine, but it shouldn't surprise anyone if he makes it either.
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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1863 » by theFireBlanket » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:59 pm

Rose>>> Cousins, that is all
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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1864 » by wapith » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:04 pm

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html

Not favorable for Rose based on this.

Though the criteria does not include MVPs, but does include height for some reason?
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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1865 » by paulpressey25 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:13 pm

theFireBlanket wrote:Rose>>> Cousins, that is all


Totally agree. Old Rose was a game-changer, who tilted the playing field. Then injuries and frankly just "giving up" took over.

But the Basketball Hall of Fame has virtually no standards, and takes most anyone. So Stevie Francis awaits his call.
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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1866 » by Bucksfan28 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:31 pm

I disagree with the idea that the HoF has low/no standards. They account for international and collegiate impact (among other things) and that may result in some head-scratchers, but if you want to get in based primarily on your NBA playing career it seems like there's actually a decently high threshold. Stevie Franchise wont sniff an induction.
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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1867 » by ReasonablySober » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:38 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
theFireBlanket wrote:Rose>>> Cousins, that is all


Totally agree. Old Rose was a game-changer, who tilted the playing field. Then injuries and frankly just "giving up" took over.

But the Basketball Hall of Fame has virtually no standards, and takes most anyone. So Stevie Francis awaits his call.


Weren't the Bulls also really good without him? I imagine if Boogie were on a team loaded with talent like those Bulls and had someone like Thibs that Boogie's career would look a lot different.
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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1868 » by Bucksfan28 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:50 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:
theFireBlanket wrote:Rose>>> Cousins, that is all


Totally agree. Old Rose was a game-changer, who tilted the playing field. Then injuries and frankly just "giving up" took over.

But the Basketball Hall of Fame has virtually no standards, and takes most anyone. So Stevie Francis awaits his call.


Weren't the Bulls also really good without him? I imagine if Boogie were on a team loaded with talent like those Bulls and had someone like Thibs that Boogie's career would look a lot different.


If my math is right, they went 18-9 w/o him and 32-7 w/ him in 2011-12. And of course lost in the 1st rd after Rose went down. Then the next year when he's out they went 45-37 and lost in the semis.

So sure, they were good. I wouldn't say "really good." Rose was definitely a game-changer that took them to another level.
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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1869 » by tonyreyes123 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:54 pm

If the basketball HOF was half as stringent as baseball’s/footballs half the players wouldn’t be in there at all
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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1870 » by Ron Swanson » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:09 pm

The problem isn't that the standards are too low, it's that there are way too many guys in there from the 50s/60s/70s grandfathered in whose resumes wouldn't get them in if they were eligible now instead of 50 years ago. I think the NBA generally does a good job of recognizing defensive guys whose impact went beyond their numbers (Rodman, Dennis Johnson, Dikembe, Wes Unseld, etc.). How is baseball any better? If you're a position player, it's basically just a homerun/RBI tally with career batting average multiplied in.
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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1871 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:15 pm

Speaking of borderline guys I firmly believe Shawn marrion needs to get in. He'll be an interesting case.

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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1872 » by tydett » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:31 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:The problem isn't that the standards are too low, it's that there are way too many guys in there from the 50s/60s/70s grandfathered in whose resumes wouldn't get them in if they were eligible now instead of 50 years ago. I think the NBA generally does a good job of recognizing defensive guys whose impact went beyond their numbers (Rodman, Dennis Johnson, Dikembe, Wes Unseld, etc.). How is baseball any better? If you're a position player, it's basically just a homerun/RBI tally with career batting average multiplied in.


They had a big miss on Ben Wallace this past year. I imagine he gets in this year, but still embarrassingly bad miss.
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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1873 » by Ron Swanson » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:41 pm

tydett wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:The problem isn't that the standards are too low, it's that there are way too many guys in there from the 50s/60s/70s grandfathered in whose resumes wouldn't get them in if they were eligible now instead of 50 years ago. I think the NBA generally does a good job of recognizing defensive guys whose impact went beyond their numbers (Rodman, Dennis Johnson, Dikembe, Wes Unseld, etc.). How is baseball any better? If you're a position player, it's basically just a homerun/RBI tally with career batting average multiplied in.


They had a big miss on Ben Wallace this past year. I imagine he gets in this year, but still embarrassingly bad miss.


Didn't know that 2018 was his first year eligible, but yeah, big whiff by the voters if true. He'll get in eventually though.
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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1874 » by Bucksfan28 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:05 pm

Steph and Russ both doing some great off-the-court stuff. Love to see it.
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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1875 » by MikeIsGood » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:21 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Speaking of borderline guys I firmly believe Shawn marrion needs to get in. He'll be an interesting case.


Interesting case for sure. I don't know about his NCAA career really, but his NBA prime ended relatively abruptly and it has the look of being driven by Steve Nash and their system (even if he was putting up similar numbers on ok-ish teams before his arrival). Once he got traded, he pretty immediately became a role player. Still a good one and obviously he got a ring with Dallas, but I think that tells a non-HoF narrative. 4x AS, 2x All-NBA. Eh...
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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1876 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:27 pm

MikeIsGood wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Speaking of borderline guys I firmly believe Shawn marrion needs to get in. He'll be an interesting case.


Interesting case for sure. I don't know about his NCAA career really, but his NBA prime ended relatively abruptly and it has the look of being driven by Steve Nash and their system (even if he was putting up similar numbers on ok-ish teams before his arrival). Once he got traded, he pretty immediately became a role player. Still a good one and obviously he got a ring with Dallas, but I think that tells a non-HoF narrative. 4x AS, 2x All-NBA. Eh...
Honestly I'm biased because he's one of my favorite players. Personally I think he was the second best player on those suns teams, better than amare. I also don't think that system would have worked without his versitility and that system ushered in a new era of basketball so I think that should give him some bonus credit. He put up good offensive stats but it was his defense that I think put him over the top. The ring late in his career should help too and he was an important part of that team.

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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1877 » by Bucksfan28 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:28 pm

Don't think Shawn gets in, but if we're pimping non-HoF'ers who would be first ballot on our personal list then I present, #9 in your program and #1 in your heart:

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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1878 » by Plossum » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:42 am

Rose should get in. He was really good. I get the injuries and severe downturn in his production have cruelled his chances but the guy is a former MVP. His flame burned briefly but brightly.
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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1879 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:51 am

Shawn Kemp before Shawn Marion.
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Re: ATL: DeMarcus Cousins blows out ACL, pg 89 

Post#1880 » by stellation » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:07 am

Shaun of the Dead before Shawn Kemp.

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