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NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks

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NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#1 » by paulpressey25 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:02 pm

Given the lengthy luxury tax discussions we've had, thought this would be an helpful thread.

I'm going to shill for Bucks management here. Since the Bucks haven't paid the tax in a jillion years, most fans aren't aware of how punitive this is, especially for small markets that it was designed to help.

Good link:
https://hoopshype.com/2018/10/11/nba-luxury-tax/

Repeat offenders are defined as teams that have paid luxury taxes in at least three of the prior four seasons.

For the Brogdon contract, let's assume that he got a starting salary of $22mm and that pushed the Bucks $16mm over the tax line (They are about $6mm under right now, and they'd have to have filled roster spots with vet minimums even if they didn't land Korver or Wes)

That's $32 million of luxury tax they'd have paid this year based on the chart below. I'm not a fan of isolating Brogdon, as the other 14 guys on the roster (cough Middleton) are also part of the salary pool, that said, Brogdon on the margins becomes a $54 million dollar player this year. And he'd start the clock on the repeater tax as well.

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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#2 » by ReasonablySober » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:12 pm

Yea but Billionaires with a B.
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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#3 » by Isocleas2 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:17 pm

It does scale up pretty dramatically, i've never looked at the chart before so the 50 mil over = 250 mil penalty kind of blew my mind.
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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#4 » by Plossum » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:18 pm

Not quite Little Cleo but a solid effort.
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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#5 » by humanrefutation » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:20 pm

Nah, I don't need to hear a management shill, tbh. This is one of the very few times in the history of our fandom when we're following a team that has the chance to compete for a title. Teams that compete for titles have to be willing to pay the tax when needed. Period.

Zach Lowe wrote:The Bucks are title contenders; the luxury tax is generally the price of contention.


By the way, the two teams that made it to the finals last year were taxpayers.
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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#6 » by M-C-G » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:25 pm

In my opinion we stayed under the tax and have a better overall roster. Hard to argue with that, just wish Midds wasn’t a five year deal. Other than that, I am good. These owners are going to have to pay tax at some point, no beef with that being down the road.


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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#7 » by M-C-G » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:27 pm

Also don’t underestimate the value of being a min vet location. Makes it way easier to improve your roster, we are there.


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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#8 » by skones » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:46 pm

The repeater tax with Brogdon in the fold and the new Giannis deal kicking in would be ABSOLUTELY ENORMOUS and that's never even brought up.
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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#9 » by paulpressey25 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:04 pm

skones wrote:The repeater tax with Brogdon in the fold and the new Giannis deal kicking in would be ABSOLUTELY ENORMOUS and that's never even brought up.


Yep. Hence the thread.

If they went into the tax this year + Giannis extension likely makes them a repeater for Brogdon in year four. That would cost $22mm salary plus $75mm tax, or $97mm for Malcolm. That's massive risk for a non-all star with foot problems.

That said, I still think they'll regret not diversifying Middleton's money into Brogdon/Bojan given the luxury tax ramifications of having Middleton himself break down/wear down.
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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#10 » by Nowak008 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:11 pm

The owners might have made an estimated 500 million dollars since buying the team. Come on.
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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#11 » by Matches Malone » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:16 pm

Nowak008 wrote:The owners might have made an estimated 500 million dollars since buying the team. Come on.


But is that money at their disposal or something they would get when they sell the team?
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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#12 » by soxperry » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:20 pm

How does a team get 50m over the luxury tax line when you can no longer sign outside free agents after the soft cap? Incremental +125% trades? Its just baffling to me.
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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#13 » by Iheartfootball » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:21 pm

Nowak008 wrote:The owners might have made an estimated 500 million dollars since buying the team. Come on.


In what, net income? Because if you're talking about market value that's not real until you sell the team. And between now and then things can go up and down. Also, now and then can be a long time.

And again, Brogdon wasn't coming back here because he wasn't going to play point guard so it doesn't matter.
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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#14 » by BroncoBuck » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:23 pm

skones wrote:The repeater tax with Brogdon in the fold and the new Giannis deal kicking in would be ABSOLUTELY ENORMOUS and that's never even brought up.


Same problem the Cavs faced when they extended TT. That repeater tax was preposterous.
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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#15 » by Ruben Quevedo » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:24 pm

Anyone stupid enough to give kris Middleton 175 million dollars and then cry poor gets no sympathy from me.
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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#16 » by paulpressey25 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:27 pm

Iheartfootball wrote:
And again, Brogdon


I quoted the line above, because it is key to at least my take on this. You had to cost/benefit this specific player and circumstance.

If we had say Pascal Siakam and let him walk under the same circumstances, then yes, owners deserve scorn.

Or back in the day, the Pacers had to part with Brad Miller in his prime because they didn’t want to pay/afford the tax.

With Brogdon there were so many variables that made you hesitate on 4/$88, and that’s before you even reached the lux tax analysis.
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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#17 » by Iheartfootball » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:41 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
Iheartfootball wrote:
And again, Brogdon


I quoted the line above, because it is key to at least my take on this. You had to cost/benefit this specific player and circumstance.

If we had say Pascal Siakam and let him walk under the same circumstances, then yes, owners deserve scorn.

Or back in the day, the Pacers had to part with Brad Miller in his prime because they didn’t want to pay/afford the tax.

With Brogdon there were so many variables that made you hesitate on 4/$88, and that’s before you even reached the lux tax analysis.


That's fair and I understand you are just using Brogdon to illustrate a point. I didn't mean it in a way that this thread was pointless. It's actually the opposite. I just get frustrated when we (myself included) say things like the owners are cheap because they didn't match. It's so much more nuanced than that and it's probably why I replied to Nowak's post. I sometimes think about ownership the same way he does and want to blame them. However, they may be cheap but there could also be 10-100 more variables that go into the decision. I'm as skeptical as most when it comes to this ownership group but I'm trying not to comment deeply about their decision making process until I have more information.

Okay, back to not derailing your thread. :D
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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#18 » by skones » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:46 pm

soxperry wrote:How does a team get 50m over the luxury tax line when you can no longer sign outside free agents after the soft cap? Incremental +125% trades? Its just baffling to me.


Keeping your own guys, increasing salaries...........
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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#19 » by Lippo » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:12 pm

skones wrote:
soxperry wrote:How does a team get 50m over the luxury tax line when you can no longer sign outside free agents after the soft cap? Incremental +125% trades? Its just baffling to me.


Keeping your own guys, increasing salaries...........


Yeah cap numbers don’t restrict birds rights players...
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Re: NBA Luxury Tax Tiers and the Bucks 

Post#20 » by soxperry » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:19 pm

Lippo wrote:
skones wrote:
soxperry wrote:How does a team get 50m over the luxury tax line when you can no longer sign outside free agents after the soft cap? Incremental +125% trades? Its just baffling to me.


Keeping your own guys, increasing salaries...........


Yeah cap numbers don’t restrict birds rights players...


I know that, but those players already have to be on your team to begin with. So maybe a situation where you have a pretty expensive team and then get lucky and hit on a number of draft picks and then you decide to keep everyone and pay the young stars big.

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