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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:38 pm
by Ruzious
RiotPunch wrote:emunney wrote:I think Bane has a lot in common as a prospect with guys like Crabbe and Middleton. All three have very different bodies of course, but nice balance to their offensive skillsets, none of them twitchy enough to spend much time in the paint, solid and committed defensively. Middleton panned out, Crabbe panned out juuuust enough to get a big payday under freak circumstances.
Kind of the one contract only mold if things work out. Middleton hit supernova in the mold, developing shot creation off the dribble, but yeah Crabbe was a great guy to have until his payday came. I would draft Bane knowing he'd be a valuable rotation 3&D wing on a rookie scale, and either trading him or letting him walk before his next contract, unless he developed an outlier ability like Khris did.
He's really good right now, which is a plan I'm down with versus a project play. The right project of course could entice though, a la Poku or Jaden.
Any thoughts on whether or not Poku will be there? If he is, I don't think I could pass on him - even though he is a project. His basketball instincts and body control at 7 foot are just too good, and he'll fill out - just 18.
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:50 pm
by Badgerlander
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:36 pm
by RiotPunch
Ruzious wrote:RiotPunch wrote:emunney wrote:I think Bane has a lot in common as a prospect with guys like Crabbe and Middleton. All three have very different bodies of course, but nice balance to their offensive skillsets, none of them twitchy enough to spend much time in the paint, solid and committed defensively. Middleton panned out, Crabbe panned out juuuust enough to get a big payday under freak circumstances.
Kind of the one contract only mold if things work out. Middleton hit supernova in the mold, developing shot creation off the dribble, but yeah Crabbe was a great guy to have until his payday came. I would draft Bane knowing he'd be a valuable rotation 3&D wing on a rookie scale, and either trading him or letting him walk before his next contract, unless he developed an outlier ability like Khris did.
He's really good right now, which is a plan I'm down with versus a project play. The right project of course could entice though, a la Poku or Jaden.
Any thoughts on whether or not Poku will be there? If he is, I don't think I could pass on him - even though he is a project. His basketball instincts and body control at 7 foot are just too good, and he'll fill out - just 18.
Your guess is as good as mine, but I reckon someone will take the moonshot before our selection comes around. San Antonio, Orlando, Boston (3 1st rounders), Dallas all make sense as landing spots, IMO.
If for some reason he is there though, I would struggle to pass on him as well. Lock him in the weight room with Suki and get him on a hearty midwestern diet, let him dominate on the Herd for a couple of years, and then unleash the Poku/Giannis frontcourt of death.
Part of me though would like someone to play right away, like Bane, but Poku's ceiling is miles higher.
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:38 pm
by RiotPunch
Tough archetype to spend a pick on, but he is great at what he does. Would you draft him? Seems like a Euro guy that maybe makes it to the league down the line.
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:49 pm
by Ruzious
RiotPunch wrote:Ruzious wrote:RiotPunch wrote:Kind of the one contract only mold if things work out. Middleton hit supernova in the mold, developing shot creation off the dribble, but yeah Crabbe was a great guy to have until his payday came. I would draft Bane knowing he'd be a valuable rotation 3&D wing on a rookie scale, and either trading him or letting him walk before his next contract, unless he developed an outlier ability like Khris did.
He's really good right now, which is a plan I'm down with versus a project play. The right project of course could entice though, a la Poku or Jaden.
Any thoughts on whether or not Poku will be there? If he is, I don't think I could pass on him - even though he is a project. His basketball instincts and body control at 7 foot are just too good, and he'll fill out - just 18.
Your guess is as good as mine, but I reckon someone will take the moonshot before our selection comes around. San Antonio, Orlando, Boston (3 1st rounders), Dallas all make sense as landing spots, IMO.
If for some reason he is there though, I would struggle to pass on him as well. Lock him in the weight room with Suki and get him on a hearty midwestern diet, let him dominate on the Herd for a couple of years, and then unleash the Poku/Giannis frontcourt of death.
Part of me though would like someone to play right away, like Bane, but Poku's ceiling is miles higher.
Ugg, I really hope Boston doesn't get him. A creative coach like Stevens could make him a star on that team.
Yeah, imagining Giannis taking him under his wing. Giannis can remember coming in as a skinny project - he'd probably love having his own Pokuman to develop in his image and win more championships with.
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:51 pm
by Badgerlander
RiotPunch wrote:Tough archetype to spend a pick on, but he is great at what he does. Would you draft him? Seems like a Euro guy that maybe makes it to the league down the line.
Seems like a Nigel Williams-Goss, Jalen Brunson type guy but why not if we can buy a 2nd and let him run our g league team for a couple seasons?
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:21 pm
by RiotPunch
Badgerlander wrote:RiotPunch wrote:Tough archetype to spend a pick on, but he is great at what he does. Would you draft him? Seems like a Euro guy that maybe makes it to the league down the line.
Seems like a Nigel Williams-Goss, Jalen Brunson type guy but why not if we can buy a 2nd and let him run our g league team for a couple seasons?
Not seeing him as a guy you give the keys of the offense to. I admit I have not watched enough UConn to get a feel for his low assist numbers. NWG seems pretty spot on, with Vital with a considerably lower assist % but a considerably higher steal %.
Wizzy's tool draws some Marcus Smart / Iman Shumpert comps, which is interesting. So many damn guards in this class, there's gonna be some serious UDFA value there. Abdoulaye N'Doye, Jalen Crutcher, Rokas Jokubaitis, Saben Lee, Christian Vital, etc.
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:18 am
by emunney
RiotPunch wrote:Tough archetype to spend a pick on, but he is great at what he does. Would you draft him? Seems like a Euro guy that maybe makes it to the league down the line.
2-way? Exhibit 10? Bev only played two years at Bama, though.
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:07 am
by Badgerlander
Ugh I hope the two way dies with this new LA high school all star team coming into the g league and they just expand the rosters
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:38 pm
by Ruzious
RiotPunch wrote:Tough archetype to spend a pick on, but he is great at what he does. Would you draft him? Seems like a Euro guy that maybe makes it to the league down the line.
Those "Vital stats" are per 100 possessions. When I first read that, I thought he meant Vital had 4.5 steals a game. He got 3.3 per 40 minutes. He had more to's than assists and made less than 35% of his 3's. And he's 23. I don't think he'll get drafted.
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:21 pm
by LuessiT
Ron Swanson wrote:The vast majority of rookies, young or old, aren't gonna contribute to winning basketball right off the bat. If some other team reaps the benefits of a player that was drafted elsewhere, then that's simply a dumb decision by the team that chose to let him go. I don't factor that into draft analysis at all. Choose the player you think is gonna be the best 2-3 years from now. Always. Anything else is a self-defeating philosophy IMO.
It's a bit more difficult than that. Once you draft a player, you get 4 years of service and RFA rights for 4 years of salary, the value of the pick you utilized, the salary and a roster spot.
RFA rights can be very valueable for any player worth the max contract but most likely aren't worth much for players below that. They restrict movement/give control but they don't necessarily add value for the latter cases (they're also attached to a QO which can be very toxic but let's not delve too deep into that). You may draft a '10 year NBA player' but if he's not good enough by year 4 or you have to let go because he gets overpriced or you keep hold of him despite him being overpriced his rights are worth very little. And even if all those cases don't apply you have to make up the investment you made into him. So unless you somehow strike a bargain contract, you're better off trying to poach other FAs.
That's why I'd echo your second bolded statement. You need to get some production out of your rookie even if you draft a project. Else on average you'll get a negative return on investment.
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:38 pm
by Diggr14
is Garza going back to Iowa? I'd think someone will take him in the 2nd. He'll probably b e better than 1/2 of the bums drafted in the 1st.
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:01 pm
by Badgerlander
Ruzious wrote:RiotPunch wrote:Tough archetype to spend a pick on, but he is great at what he does. Would you draft him? Seems like a Euro guy that maybe makes it to the league down the line.
Those "Vital stats" are per 100 possessions. When I first read that, I thought he meant Vital had 4.5 steals a game. He got 3.3 per 40 minutes. He had more to's than assists and made less than 35% of his 3's. And he's 23. I don't think he'll get drafted.
Steal Percentage (Stl%) estimates the percentage of opponent possessions that end with a steal by the player while he was on the floor. STL% = 100 * (STL * (Team MP / 5)) / (MP * Opp Poss).
Example: Here are the top 8 in Stl% from 2010-11: Tony Allen (4.5), Chris Paul (3.5), Rondo (3.2), Russell Westbrook (2.8), Metta World Peace (2.7), Jason Kidd (2.7), Manu Ginobili (2.6), Monta Ellis (2.6)
https://aloneinthegreenroom.wordpress.com/statsketball/glossary-of-basketball-stats/#unique-identifier24
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:20 pm
by Ruzious
Badgerlander wrote:Ruzious wrote:RiotPunch wrote:Tough archetype to spend a pick on, but he is great at what he does. Would you draft him? Seems like a Euro guy that maybe makes it to the league down the line.
Those "Vital stats" are per 100 possessions. When I first read that, I thought he meant Vital had 4.5 steals a game. He got 3.3 per 40 minutes. He had more to's than assists and made less than 35% of his 3's. And he's 23. I don't think he'll get drafted.
Steal Percentage (Stl%) estimates the percentage of opponent possessions that end with a steal by the player while he was on the floor. STL% = 100 * (STL * (Team MP / 5)) / (MP * Opp Poss).
Example: Here are the top 8 in Stl% from 2010-11: Tony Allen (4.5), Chris Paul (3.5), Rondo (3.2), Russell Westbrook (2.8), Metta World Peace (2.7), Jason Kidd (2.7), Manu Ginobili (2.6), Monta Ellis (2.6)
https://aloneinthegreenroom.wordpress.com/statsketball/glossary-of-basketball-stats/#unique-identifier24
But college stats - 2 players just off the top of my head: Briante Weber (7.4% career, 8.9 as a senior), Gary Payton II (4.9 career).
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:10 pm
by emunney
Ruzious wrote:RiotPunch wrote:Ruzious wrote:Any thoughts on whether or not Poku will be there? If he is, I don't think I could pass on him - even though he is a project. His basketball instincts and body control at 7 foot are just too good, and he'll fill out - just 18.
Your guess is as good as mine, but I reckon someone will take the moonshot before our selection comes around. San Antonio, Orlando, Boston (3 1st rounders), Dallas all make sense as landing spots, IMO.
If for some reason he is there though, I would struggle to pass on him as well. Lock him in the weight room with Suki and get him on a hearty midwestern diet, let him dominate on the Herd for a couple of years, and then unleash the Poku/Giannis frontcourt of death.
Part of me though would like someone to play right away, like Bane, but Poku's ceiling is miles higher.
Ugg, I really hope Boston doesn't get him. A creative coach like Stevens could make him a star on that team.
Yeah, imagining Giannis taking him under his wing. Giannis can remember coming in as a skinny project - he'd probably love having his own Pokuman to develop in his image and win more championships with.
I doubt Boston would take him. Outside their MO. Would not have comfort with such little tape.
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:28 pm
by Badgerlander
Ruzious wrote:Badgerlander wrote:Ruzious wrote:Those "Vital stats" are per 100 possessions. When I first read that, I thought he meant Vital had 4.5 steals a game. He got 3.3 per 40 minutes. He had more to's than assists and made less than 35% of his 3's. And he's 23. I don't think he'll get drafted.
Steal Percentage (Stl%) estimates the percentage of opponent possessions that end with a steal by the player while he was on the floor. STL% = 100 * (STL * (Team MP / 5)) / (MP * Opp Poss).
Example: Here are the top 8 in Stl% from 2010-11: Tony Allen (4.5), Chris Paul (3.5), Rondo (3.2), Russell Westbrook (2.8), Metta World Peace (2.7), Jason Kidd (2.7), Manu Ginobili (2.6), Monta Ellis (2.6)
https://aloneinthegreenroom.wordpress.com/statsketball/glossary-of-basketball-stats/#unique-identifier24
But college stats - 2 players just off the top of my head: Briante Weber (7.4% career, 8.9 as a senior), Gary Payton II (4.9 career).
Exactly. Both of which are the type of player that we are talking here. Both had a cup of coffee in the nba and were a consistent 3pt shot away from a roster spot. The guy who’s tweet I posted has him at 57. If he goes undrafted then great let’s bring him in for a look
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:56 am
by Ruzious
Ok, you threw me off with the comps to the NBA stars.
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:38 am
by emunney
Ruzious wrote:Badgerlander wrote:Ruzious wrote:Those "Vital stats" are per 100 possessions. When I first read that, I thought he meant Vital had 4.5 steals a game. He got 3.3 per 40 minutes. He had more to's than assists and made less than 35% of his 3's. And he's 23. I don't think he'll get drafted.
Steal Percentage (Stl%) estimates the percentage of opponent possessions that end with a steal by the player while he was on the floor. STL% = 100 * (STL * (Team MP / 5)) / (MP * Opp Poss).
Example: Here are the top 8 in Stl% from 2010-11: Tony Allen (4.5), Chris Paul (3.5), Rondo (3.2), Russell Westbrook (2.8), Metta World Peace (2.7), Jason Kidd (2.7), Manu Ginobili (2.6), Monta Ellis (2.6)
https://aloneinthegreenroom.wordpress.com/statsketball/glossary-of-basketball-stats/#unique-identifier24
But college stats - 2 players just off the top of my head: Briante Weber (7.4% career, 8.9 as a senior), Gary Payton II (4.9 career).
Weber has 4 of the top 7 STL% seasons on record for players playing > 500 minutes (back only to 09-10, when s-r started keeping the stat.
I'm intrigued by Vital's shooting in combo with his defense. He's got a nice stroke and a little natural fade with a high release. Not the quickest release but the release point makes up for it. He's got range, too. I don't think he's a #1 ballhandler at all, but he could be a smallish 2 who can take either assignment defensively, kind of like a poor man's Jrue Holiday.
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:26 pm
by Badgerlander
Vital’s 253 career 3-pointers are the most in history by an American Athletic Conference player. With 1,636 points, he is fifth on the conference’s all-time list and 15th on UConn’s all-time list. He has 203 steals, third all-time in the AAC.
Vital is averaging 2.44 steals this season, ranked ninth in the nation. He hardly ever misses a game, just two his freshman year, and has played 106 in a row. And he hardly ever misses a free throw, making 21 straight now to put him at 106-for-116 for the season (91.4 percent).
That’s all worth celebrating. Vital has always been there, all the while forced into new responsibilities, because of injuries or transfers or general complications, never complained, just suited up and played hard. He’s the team’s best pound-for-pound rebounder. He’s willing to defend. He’s all over the court.
Has a bit of a Brandon jennings shot selection but defense
Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:01 pm
by Badgerlander