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Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread

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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1101 » by StickeeFingaz » Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:56 pm

theFireBlanket wrote:Khris is better than Tatum & Brown. Problem is the other two are Celtics & recency bias is they made the bubble ECF, where Milwaukee bounced in the semis.

Ignore that Khris willed game 4 with Giannis injured, & this year is playing his best basketball ever.

It will only be sweeter if Khris continues this stretch of 30 point games for awhile & they collectively ride momentum into the playoffs. With the doubters continuing that overpaid, unworthy #2 narrative.


I’d exchange Middleton for Tatum without much hesitation.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1102 » by sidney lanier » Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:25 pm

StickeeFingaz wrote:
theFireBlanket wrote:Khris is better than Tatum & Brown. Problem is the other two are Celtics & recency bias is they made the bubble ECF, where Milwaukee bounced in the semis.

Ignore that Khris willed game 4 with Giannis injured, & this year is playing his best basketball ever.

It will only be sweeter if Khris continues this stretch of 30 point games for awhile & they collectively ride momentum into the playoffs. With the doubters continuing that overpaid, unworthy #2 narrative.


I’d exchange Middleton for Tatum without much hesitation.


Not me. That 59%/52% difference in eFG% would give me pause. Middleton's George-Gervin-Ice-Man-like presence on the court will always lead some to underestimate his value or his heart. That's a mistake IMO.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1103 » by StickeeFingaz » Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:42 pm

sidney lanier wrote:
StickeeFingaz wrote:
theFireBlanket wrote:Khris is better than Tatum & Brown. Problem is the other two are Celtics & recency bias is they made the bubble ECF, where Milwaukee bounced in the semis.

Ignore that Khris willed game 4 with Giannis injured, & this year is playing his best basketball ever.

It will only be sweeter if Khris continues this stretch of 30 point games for awhile & they collectively ride momentum into the playoffs. With the doubters continuing that overpaid, unworthy #2 narrative.


I’d exchange Middleton for Tatum without much hesitation.


Not me. That 59%/52% difference in eFG% would give me pause. Middleton's George-Gervin-Ice-Man-like presence on the court will always lead some to underestimate his value or his heart. That's a mistake IMO.


I’m always factoring in the idea that Tatum is the offensive focal point when other teams are preparing for Boston. When teams face the Bucks, I would think 95% of the time, they’re game planning for Giannis, and Middleton is secondary.

Put Tatum in Middleton’s situation and I think he’s just as efficient. I also think Tatum is probably a better defender and I like that he has a higher free throw rate.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1104 » by DingleJerry » Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:41 pm

You can argue on who's better right now and neither side is wrong on a Mid/Tatum debate. I'd probably lean towards taking Tatum due to more athleticism which would help be more of a lead handler/shooter type than Khris can do, but it's a close call. If it's a would you trade it should be 100% in favor of trading for Tatum purely based on age. they're basically even now, while one is 23ish and still has room to possibly take a leap up. But most importantly not close to the key age 30 number.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1105 » by BroncoBuck » Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:53 pm

Middleton once again robbed.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1106 » by skones » Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:12 pm

BroncoBuck wrote:Middleton once again robbed.


I don't have a problem with Sabonis over him. I have a problem with Lavine, Randle, and Vuc over him which remain insane.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1107 » by WRau1 » Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:27 pm

Yup, Sabonis should've been in from the beginning.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1108 » by blazza18 » Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:46 pm

StickeeFingaz wrote:
theFireBlanket wrote:Khris is better than Tatum & Brown. Problem is the other two are Celtics & recency bias is they made the bubble ECF, where Milwaukee bounced in the semis.

Ignore that Khris willed game 4 with Giannis injured, & this year is playing his best basketball ever.

It will only be sweeter if Khris continues this stretch of 30 point games for awhile & they collectively ride momentum into the playoffs. With the doubters continuing that overpaid, unworthy #2 narrative.


I’d exchange Middleton for Tatum without much hesitation.


Would have actually won a title the last two years with a swap.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1109 » by skones » Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:52 pm

Tatum is absolutely better than Middleton. Defense? Check. Scoring Versatility? Check. Volume? Check. The only big thing in Middleton's favor is efficiency and I'll confidently say he's not 50/40/90 as a number 1.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1110 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:17 pm

Must have missed the part where Tatum shot 35% from the field in the final two games of the Miami series last year, or how he's kinda sucked in the postseason in general despite this really weird and undeserved reputation as a "clutch" shot-maker. I'd take Tatum over Middleton in a heartbeat, but certainly not because of who the better player is right now.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1111 » by Profound23 » Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:20 pm

Tatum and Sabonis make it and Middleton still isn't the next best snub imo
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1112 » by H2tObes » Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:35 pm

This board has a very strong disdain for a player that will have his number retired :lol:
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1113 » by skones » Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:07 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Must have missed the part where Tatum shot 35% from the field in the final two games of the Miami series last year, or how he's kinda sucked in the postseason in general despite this really weird and undeserved reputation as a "clutch" shot-maker. I'd take Tatum over Middleton in a heartbeat, but certainly not because of who the better player is right now.
Or I just didn't ignore the first four games of the series. But sure, 26, 10, and 5 on 56.3TS% in 17 games last season. "Kinda sucked"

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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1114 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:26 pm

skones wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Must have missed the part where Tatum shot 35% from the field in the final two games of the Miami series last year, or how he's kinda sucked in the postseason in general despite this really weird and undeserved reputation as a "clutch" shot-maker. I'd take Tatum over Middleton in a heartbeat, but certainly not because of who the better player is right now.
Or I just didn't ignore the first four games of the series. But sure, 26, 10, and 5 on 56.3TS% in 17 games last season. "Kinda sucked"

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Yes. Giannis "kinda sucked" last postseason too despite him putting up nice, shiny box score numbers. Tatum flat out sucked the whole postseason before. It's fine because he's still super young and he has time to figure it out, but if we're gonna treat him like this "definitely better than Khris Middleton" superstar, then we should probably hold him to actual superstar standards.

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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1115 » by skones » Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:46 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:
skones wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Must have missed the part where Tatum shot 35% from the field in the final two games of the Miami series last year, or how he's kinda sucked in the postseason in general despite this really weird and undeserved reputation as a "clutch" shot-maker. I'd take Tatum over Middleton in a heartbeat, but certainly not because of who the better player is right now.
Or I just didn't ignore the first four games of the series. But sure, 26, 10, and 5 on 56.3TS% in 17 games last season. "Kinda sucked"

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Yes. Giannis "kinda sucked" last postseason too despite him putting up nice, shiny box score numbers. Tatum flat out sucked the whole postseason before. It's fine because he's still super young and he has time to figure it out, but if we're gonna treat him like this "definitely better than Khris Middleton" superstar, then we should probably hold him to actual superstar standards.

:dontknow:


See, that's the issue. You're building a straw man. I don't recall calling him a superstar. Holding him to superstar standards as a result wouldn't follow. I said he's definitely better than Middleton, which he is. You don't have to be a superstar to be better than Khris Middleton, and you don't have to be defensive when someone is better than Khris Middleton, but you're assuming one and doing the other anyway.

Picking out a 9 game sample size of postseason play from a team that was an absolute mess with Kyrie when there are 36 other games of pretty damn fine post season play is flat out subjective. I have NO idea why you're harping on postseason play when the run Tatum had last year trumps anything Middleton has put together in his career while being 6 years younger. You're not even hitting a strong point.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1116 » by H2tObes » Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:09 am

blazza18 wrote:
StickeeFingaz wrote:
theFireBlanket wrote:Khris is better than Tatum & Brown. Problem is the other two are Celtics & recency bias is they made the bubble ECF, where Milwaukee bounced in the semis.

Ignore that Khris willed game 4 with Giannis injured, & this year is playing his best basketball ever.

It will only be sweeter if Khris continues this stretch of 30 point games for awhile & they collectively ride momentum into the playoffs. With the doubters continuing that overpaid, unworthy #2 narrative.


I’d exchange Middleton for Tatum without much hesitation.


Would have actually won a title the last two years with a swap.

Khris made Tatum his bitch in a series in 18-19 and you're a maniac if you think swapping Khris with Tatum last year magically gives us a title. IDK where you guys get this stuff from
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1117 » by blazza18 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:24 am

H2tObes wrote:
blazza18 wrote:
StickeeFingaz wrote:
I’d exchange Middleton for Tatum without much hesitation.


Would have actually won a title the last two years with a swap.

Khris made Tatum his bitch in a series in 18-19 and you're a maniac if you think swapping Khris with Tatum last year magically gives us a title. IDK where you guys get this stuff from


Can't fault Midds for his shooting and is a more willing passer but Tatum's scoring versatility, ability to get to the line and willingness to have the ball in his hands completely raises the ceiling of our last two playoff teams.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1118 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:45 am

i think its pretty cooI were comparing our #2 option to supermax guys Iike tatum. pretty cooI. the idea vucevic, randIe or Iavine got in is what seems siIIy to me. good chance if not IikeIy aII 3 miss on the pIayoffs which seems absurd. wonder when the Iast time that wouId have happened. 3 aIIstars on a team from Iosing teams
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1119 » by H2tObes » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:20 am

blazza18 wrote:
H2tObes wrote:
blazza18 wrote:
Would have actually won a title the last two years with a swap.

Khris made Tatum his bitch in a series in 18-19 and you're a maniac if you think swapping Khris with Tatum last year magically gives us a title. IDK where you guys get this stuff from


Can't fault Midds for his shooting and is a more willing passer but Tatum's scoring versatility, ability to get to the line and willingness to have the ball in his hands completely raises the ceiling of our last two playoff teams.

Ok, you can say he raised the ceiling of LAST YEARS team, that's fair, I'd disagree as they still would have been 2nd round fodder, but fair enough. That's a far cry from winning the whole thing the last two seasons because of that change.

The reality Khris was a substantially better player in 18-19, as the stats and the playoff matchup proved (Tatum shot 2-7 for 4 points in game 1 of that series, and shot 2-10 in game 2 for a grand total of 5 points) and the team had deep rooted issues in the bubble last year and it would have taken much more than a very marginal player swap to save them. We all watched how far off that team was, let's be real.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1120 » by blazza18 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:38 am

H2tObes wrote:
blazza18 wrote:
H2tObes wrote:Khris made Tatum his bitch in a series in 18-19 and you're a maniac if you think swapping Khris with Tatum last year magically gives us a title. IDK where you guys get this stuff from


Can't fault Midds for his shooting and is a more willing passer but Tatum's scoring versatility, ability to get to the line and willingness to have the ball in his hands completely raises the ceiling of our last two playoff teams.

Ok, you can say he raised the ceiling of LAST YEARS team, that's fair, I'd disagree as they still would have been 2nd round fodder, but fair enough. That's a far cry from winning the whole thing the last two seasons because of that change.

The reality Khris was a substantially better player in 18-19, as the stats and the playoff matchup proved (Tatum shot 2-7 for 4 points in game 1 of that series, and shot 2-10 in game 2 for a grand total of 5 points) and the team had deep rooted issues in the bubble last year and it would have taken much more than a very marginal player swap to save them. We all watched how far off that team was, let's be real.


You're putting way to much weight in Middleton shooting unsustainably well for a 7 game stretch. My takeaway from that series is he should've shot it more and didn't. Don't have that problem with a majority of other star players.

The ECF meltdown has a better chance of not happening if Giannis has a sidekick who showed up. I think we win that year.
We'll always have the bubble excuse but the reason we were never feared (Windhorst said this over and over) is we never had the "closer". Tatum would at least wanted to be that guy. A different role frees up Giannis and the offense even more and the "wall" doesn't work as well.
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