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Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread

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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1121 » by H2tObes » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:57 am

blazza18 wrote:
H2tObes wrote:
blazza18 wrote:
Can't fault Midds for his shooting and is a more willing passer but Tatum's scoring versatility, ability to get to the line and willingness to have the ball in his hands completely raises the ceiling of our last two playoff teams.

Ok, you can say he raised the ceiling of LAST YEARS team, that's fair, I'd disagree as they still would have been 2nd round fodder, but fair enough. That's a far cry from winning the whole thing the last two seasons because of that change.

The reality Khris was a substantially better player in 18-19, as the stats and the playoff matchup proved (Tatum shot 2-7 for 4 points in game 1 of that series, and shot 2-10 in game 2 for a grand total of 5 points) and the team had deep rooted issues in the bubble last year and it would have taken much more than a very marginal player swap to save them. We all watched how far off that team was, let's be real.


You're putting way to much weight in Middleton shooting unsustainably well for a 7 game stretch. My takeaway from that series is he should've shot it more and didn't. Don't have that problem with a majority of other star players.

The ECF meltdown has a better chance of not happening if Giannis has a sidekick who showed up. I think we win that year.
We'll always have the bubble excuse but the reason we were never feared (Windhorst said this over and over) is we never had the "closer". Tatum would at least wanted to be that guy. A different role frees up Giannis and the offense even more and the "wall" doesn't work as well.

Khris didn't even shoot that well in that series, he was just better than Tatum who was ass. Your idea of Tatum (especially past versions) doesn't match with the player he actually is.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1122 » by blazza18 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:33 am

H2tObes wrote:
blazza18 wrote:
H2tObes wrote:Ok, you can say he raised the ceiling of LAST YEARS team, that's fair, I'd disagree as they still would have been 2nd round fodder, but fair enough. That's a far cry from winning the whole thing the last two seasons because of that change.

The reality Khris was a substantially better player in 18-19, as the stats and the playoff matchup proved (Tatum shot 2-7 for 4 points in game 1 of that series, and shot 2-10 in game 2 for a grand total of 5 points) and the team had deep rooted issues in the bubble last year and it would have taken much more than a very marginal player swap to save them. We all watched how far off that team was, let's be real.


You're putting way to much weight in Middleton shooting unsustainably well for a 7 game stretch. My takeaway from that series is he should've shot it more and didn't. Don't have that problem with a majority of other star players.

The ECF meltdown has a better chance of not happening if Giannis has a sidekick who showed up. I think we win that year.
We'll always have the bubble excuse but the reason we were never feared (Windhorst said this over and over) is we never had the "closer". Tatum would at least wanted to be that guy. A different role frees up Giannis and the offense even more and the "wall" doesn't work as well.

Khris didn't even shoot that well in that series, he was just better than Tatum who was ass. Your idea of Tatum (especially past versions) doesn't match with the player he actually is.


Ah yea I thought you were talking about the other Celtics series. Tatum's improved from that season anyway and his style of play helps us more in that season even though he took a bigger step last year. Middleton was passive as hell in the Toronto series. Can't forget that.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1123 » by Fotis St » Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:39 pm

DavidDunn21 wrote:You guys can go down with this ship if you like. People sorta noticed Khris was a fraud in the 2019 ECF, remembered it again in the 2020 playoffs, and saw us fall off a cliff with Jrue out this year. People's perceptions of Middleton are locked in.

You can't yada yada yada the difference between 20 and 26 points a game anyway, but there's not a single person here who wouldn't rather have Tatum or Brown over Middleton right now. The numbers don't matter. People know who the better players are. Fans/coaches/players are also very well aware that playing with Giannis is an incredible advantage.

We embarrassed ourselves the last two years, and this is the price.


Amen , well said . I just want to add that Khris was terrible on Team USA and he has failed to even be competent at the 3p contest. The fact that he is not carrying the Bucks when needed is the price he pays ... lucky for him not on his salary but on his ranking among NBA Stars.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1124 » by WRau1 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:27 pm

Middleton is highly valued and respected around the league. That's just a fact. The "perception" of Midds hasn't negatively changed.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1125 » by DavidDunn21 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:41 pm

It's frankly shocking that you guys can't grasp this yet.

Yes, we would've beaten the Raptors with Giannis, Tatum, a really good Brogdon, Bledsoe, Niko, Brook and everyone else.

But do we beat the un-injured Warriors? No. Do we beat the injured Warriors with Middleton? Mabye. Remember that Lowry and Van Vleet still really had to step up...that series still wasn't a gimmie even after Klay went down.

Our failure has been so total, so foundational and so embarrassing that some of you haven't quite gotten that TALENT WINS IN THE NBA. We would've been lambs to the slaughter against any of the great Warriors teams, the Bron/Kyrie/Love Cavs, the 2018 Rockets or now the Nets and Lakers. TALENT WINS.

There have been TWO CONSECUTIVE FLUKE YEARS (Warriors hurt/bubble) AND WE COULDN'T TAKE ADVANTAGE AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON IS KHRIS MIDDLETON IS A CHOKING COWARD LOSER. Don't you ever post his (bad, but good for him) numbers in Game 4 of a series we lost in five games despite being favored as proof of anything.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1126 » by WRau1 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:44 pm

DavidDunn21 wrote:It's frankly shocking that you guys can't grasp this yet.

Yes, we would've beaten the Raptors with Giannis, Tatum, a really good Brogdon, Bledsoe, Niko, Brook and everyone else.

But do we beat the un-injured Warriors? No. Do we beat the injured Warriors with Middleton? Mabye. Remember that Lowry and Van Vleet still really had to step up...that series still wasn't a gimmie even after Klay went down.

Our failure has been so total, so foundational and so embarrassing that some of you haven't quite gotten that TALENT WINS IN THE NBA. We would've been lambs to the slaughter against any of the great Warriors teams, the Bron/Kyrie/Love Cavs, the 2018 Rockets or now the Nets and Lakers. TALENT WINS.

There have been TWO CONSECUTIVE FLUKE YEARS (Warriors hurt/bubble) AND WE COULDN'T TAKE ADVANTAGE AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON IS KHRIS MIDDLETON IS A CHOKING COWARD LOSER. Don't you ever post his (bad, but good for him) numbers in Game 4 of a series we lost in five games despite being favored as proof of anything.


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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1127 » by tydett » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:01 pm

DD's anti-Midds shtick is pretty entertaining most of the time, but a keyboard warrior calling a grown man a choking coward loser because of his performance in an athletic event (in all caps) is a pretty sad sight to see.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1128 » by WRau1 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:27 pm

tydett wrote:DD's anti-Midds shtick is pretty entertaining most of the time, but a keyboard warrior calling a grown man a choking coward loser because of his performance in an athletic event (in all caps) is a pretty sad sight to see.


Yup. Second round pick to near max player with the respect of the league and securing generational wealth is pretty far opposite of a choking coward loser.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1129 » by H2tObes » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:57 pm

DavidDunn21 wrote:It's frankly shocking that you guys can't grasp this yet.

Yes, we would've beaten the Raptors with Giannis, Tatum, a really good Brogdon, Bledsoe, Niko, Brook and everyone else.

But do we beat the un-injured Warriors? No. Do we beat the injured Warriors with Middleton? Mabye. Remember that Lowry and Van Vleet still really had to step up...that series still wasn't a gimmie even after Klay went down.

Our failure has been so total, so foundational and so embarrassing that some of you haven't quite gotten that TALENT WINS IN THE NBA. We would've been lambs to the slaughter against any of the great Warriors teams, the Bron/Kyrie/Love Cavs, the 2018 Rockets or now the Nets and Lakers. TALENT WINS.

There have been TWO CONSECUTIVE FLUKE YEARS (Warriors hurt/bubble) AND WE COULDN'T TAKE ADVANTAGE AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON IS KHRIS MIDDLETON IS A CHOKING COWARD LOSER. Don't you ever post his (bad, but good for him) numbers in Game 4 of a series we lost in five games despite being favored as proof of anything.

Khris is a very talented player :naaa:
Giannis did not go to your team :naaa:
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1130 » by Profound23 » Mon Mar 8, 2021 12:22 am

One thing that would have been interesting is seeing where Lebron/KD draft Middleton.

I think the best case scenario he would have been 3rd to last.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1131 » by old skool » Mon Mar 8, 2021 1:21 pm

This thread is an entertaining read. Not for the polarized untractable posters who twist themselves into pretzels to "prove" that they are right and any view to the contrary is sooooo very ignorant. But for the majority here who appreciate Middleton for what he can't do, while recognizing his limitations. And then comparing him to others with comparable NBA stature in 2021.

The Middleton love/disdain debate reminds me of the Michael Redd conversations, where those who saw the glass as mostly full jousted with those who could not stand that the glass was not overflowing.

Kudos to those who voice their opinion and explain why they feel that way. Easily we can see beyond the folly of those who resort to warping facts and denigrating others in a failed attempt to bolster the narrative they cannot convince others to embrace.

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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1132 » by EastSideBucksFan » Mon Mar 8, 2021 3:29 pm

DavidDunn21 wrote:It's frankly shocking that you guys can't grasp this yet.

Yes, we would've beaten the Raptors with Giannis, Tatum, a really good Brogdon, Bledsoe, Niko, Brook and everyone else.

But do we beat the un-injured Warriors? No. Do we beat the injured Warriors with Middleton? Mabye. Remember that Lowry and Van Vleet still really had to step up...that series still wasn't a gimmie even after Klay went down.

Our failure has been so total, so foundational and so embarrassing that some of you haven't quite gotten that TALENT WINS IN THE NBA. We would've been lambs to the slaughter against any of the great Warriors teams, the Bron/Kyrie/Love Cavs, the 2018 Rockets or now the Nets and Lakers. TALENT WINS.

There have been TWO CONSECUTIVE FLUKE YEARS (Warriors hurt/bubble) AND WE COULDN'T TAKE ADVANTAGE AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON IS KHRIS MIDDLETON IS A CHOKING COWARD LOSER. Don't you ever post his (bad, but good for him) numbers in Game 4 of a series we lost in five games despite being favored as proof of anything.



Only a sith deals in absolutes

There are many other variables that could've led to Bucks winning a title in 2019

It's probably best for you to put this to rest, for your mental health primarily.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1133 » by emunney » Mon Mar 8, 2021 3:45 pm

Who would you guys rather have had in 2019: Khris Middleton or the Wendigo of Algonquin lore
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1134 » by glenn » Mon Mar 8, 2021 4:08 pm

emunney wrote:Who would you guys rather have had in 2019: Khris Middleton or the Wendigo of Algonquin lore

Going to have to go with Khris. Obviously the Wendigo had the higher ceiling, but unless the Raptors would have consumed each other’s flesh I don’t think we would have seen it’s full potential.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1135 » by emunney » Mon Mar 8, 2021 5:21 pm

glenn wrote:
emunney wrote:Who would you guys rather have had in 2019: Khris Middleton or the Wendigo of Algonquin lore

Going to have to go with Khris. Obviously the Wendigo had the higher ceiling, but unless the Raptors would have consumed each other’s flesh I don’t think we would have seen it’s full potential.


I can see both sides. On one hand, Khris's outside shooting really penalizes teams who lose track of him due to attention paid to Giannis, but on the other hand, the Wendigo is an insatiable cannibal monster. Ultimately I guess it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1136 » by buckboy » Mon Mar 8, 2021 7:55 pm

DavidDunn21 wrote:It's frankly shocking that you guys can't grasp this yet.

Yes, we would've beaten the Raptors with Giannis, Tatum, a really good Brogdon, Bledsoe, Niko, Brook and everyone else.

But do we beat the un-injured Warriors? No. Do we beat the injured Warriors with Middleton? Mabye. Remember that Lowry and Van Vleet still really had to step up...that series still wasn't a gimmie even after Klay went down.

Our failure has been so total, so foundational and so embarrassing that some of you haven't quite gotten that TALENT WINS IN THE NBA. We would've been lambs to the slaughter against any of the great Warriors teams, the Bron/Kyrie/Love Cavs, the 2018 Rockets or now the Nets and Lakers. TALENT WINS.

There have been TWO CONSECUTIVE FLUKE YEARS (Warriors hurt/bubble) AND WE COULDN'T TAKE ADVANTAGE AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON IS KHRIS MIDDLETON IS A CHOKING COWARD LOSER. Don't you ever post his (bad, but good for him) numbers in Game 4 of a series we lost in five games despite being favored as proof of anything.


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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1137 » by DavidDunn21 » Tue Mar 9, 2021 4:47 am

None of this is analysis.

If you can't accept failure staring you in the face, of course you don't know why.

Because you don't wanna know.

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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1138 » by skones » Tue Mar 9, 2021 5:24 am

DavidDunn21 wrote:
If you can't accept failure staring you in the face, of course you don't know why.

Because you don't wanna know.



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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1139 » by thonnisbeastley » Tue Mar 9, 2021 5:36 am

WRau1 wrote:Middleton is highly valued and respected around the league. That's just a fact. The "perception" of Midds hasn't negatively changed.

This is why we should trade him now before the final two years of his contract change that "perception". We aren't winning anything this year. We have to re-sign Jrue. Middleton will give us the best return to compete again next season. Middleton at 38/40M per year as a fringe all-star will be a major contributing factor when we look back at how we wasted Giannis' prime/why Giannis forced a trade.
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Re: Former All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#1140 » by emunney » Tue Mar 9, 2021 5:38 am

I had the brew, she had the chronic. The Lakers beat the Supersonics.

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