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blazza18 wrote:

H2tObes wrote:

blazza18 wrote:
Can't fault Midds for his shooting and is a more willing passer but Tatum's scoring versatility, ability to get to the line and willingness to have the ball in his hands completely raises the ceiling of our last two playoff teams.

Ok, you can say he raised the ceiling of LAST YEARS team, that's fair, I'd disagree as they still would have been 2nd round fodder, but fair enough. That's a far cry from winning the whole thing the last two seasons because of that change.

The reality Khris was a substantially better player in 18-19, as the stats and the playoff matchup proved (Tatum shot 2-7 for 4 points in game 1 of that series, and shot 2-10 in game 2 for a grand total of 5 points) and the team had deep rooted issues in the bubble last year and it would have taken much more than a very marginal player swap to save them. We all watched how far off that team was, let's be real.

You're putting way to much weight in Middleton shooting unsustainably well for a 7 game stretch. My takeaway from that series is he should've shot it more and didn't. Don't have that problem with a majority of other star players.

The ECF meltdown has a better chance of not happening if Giannis has a sidekick who showed up. I think we win that year.
We'll always have the bubble excuse but the reason we were never feared (Windhorst said this over and over) is we never had the "closer". Tatum would at least wanted to be that guy. A different role frees up Giannis and the offense even more and the "wall" doesn't work as well.

H2tObes wrote:

blazza18 wrote:

H2tObes wrote:Ok, you can say he raised the ceiling of LAST YEARS team, that's fair, I'd disagree as they still would have been 2nd round fodder, but fair enough. That's a far cry from winning the whole thing the last two seasons because of that change.

The reality Khris was a substantially better player in 18-19, as the stats and the playoff matchup proved (Tatum shot 2-7 for 4 points in game 1 of that series, and shot 2-10 in game 2 for a grand total of 5 points) and the team had deep rooted issues in the bubble last year and it would have taken much more than a very marginal player swap to save them. We all watched how far off that team was, let's be real.

You're putting way to much weight in Middleton shooting unsustainably well for a 7 game stretch. My takeaway from that series is he should've shot it more and didn't. Don't have that problem with a majority of other star players.

The ECF meltdown has a better chance of not happening if Giannis has a sidekick who showed up. I think we win that year.
We'll always have the bubble excuse but the reason we were never feared (Windhorst said this over and over) is we never had the "closer". Tatum would at least wanted to be that guy. A different role frees up Giannis and the offense even more and the "wall" doesn't work as well.

Khris didn't even shoot that well in that series, he was just better than Tatum who was ass. Your idea of Tatum (especially past versions) doesn't match with the player he actually is.

DavidDunn21 wrote:You guys can go down with this ship if you like. People sorta noticed Khris was a fraud in the 2019 ECF, remembered it again in the 2020 playoffs, and saw us fall off a cliff with Jrue out this year. People's perceptions of Middleton are locked in.

You can't yada yada yada the difference between 20 and 26 points a game anyway, but there's not a single person here who wouldn't rather have Tatum or Brown over Middleton right now. The numbers don't matter. People know who the better players are. Fans/coaches/players are also very well aware that playing with Giannis is an incredible advantage.

We embarrassed ourselves the last two years, and this is the price.

DavidDunn21 wrote:It's frankly shocking that you guys can't grasp this yet.

Yes, we would've beaten the Raptors with Giannis, Tatum, a really good Brogdon, Bledsoe, Niko, Brook and everyone else.

But do we beat the un-injured Warriors? No. Do we beat the injured Warriors with Middleton? Mabye. Remember that Lowry and Van Vleet still really had to step up...that series still wasn't a gimmie even after Klay went down.

Our failure has been so total, so foundational and so embarrassing that some of you haven't quite gotten that TALENT WINS IN THE NBA. We would've been lambs to the slaughter against any of the great Warriors teams, the Bron/Kyrie/Love Cavs, the 2018 Rockets or now the Nets and Lakers. TALENT WINS.

There have been TWO CONSECUTIVE FLUKE YEARS (Warriors hurt/bubble) AND WE COULDN'T TAKE ADVANTAGE AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON IS KHRIS MIDDLETON IS A CHOKING COWARD LOSER. Don't you ever post his (bad, but good for him) numbers in Game 4 of a series we lost in five games despite being favored as proof of anything.

tydett wrote:DD's anti-Midds shtick is pretty entertaining most of the time, but a keyboard warrior calling a grown man a choking coward loser because of his performance in an athletic event (in all caps) is a pretty sad sight to see.

DavidDunn21 wrote:It's frankly shocking that you guys can't grasp this yet.

Yes, we would've beaten the Raptors with Giannis, Tatum, a really good Brogdon, Bledsoe, Niko, Brook and everyone else.

But do we beat the un-injured Warriors? No. Do we beat the injured Warriors with Middleton? Mabye. Remember that Lowry and Van Vleet still really had to step up...that series still wasn't a gimmie even after Klay went down.

Our failure has been so total, so foundational and so embarrassing that some of you haven't quite gotten that TALENT WINS IN THE NBA. We would've been lambs to the slaughter against any of the great Warriors teams, the Bron/Kyrie/Love Cavs, the 2018 Rockets or now the Nets and Lakers. TALENT WINS.

There have been TWO CONSECUTIVE FLUKE YEARS (Warriors hurt/bubble) AND WE COULDN'T TAKE ADVANTAGE AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON IS KHRIS MIDDLETON IS A CHOKING COWARD LOSER. Don't you ever post his (bad, but good for him) numbers in Game 4 of a series we lost in five games despite being favored as proof of anything.

DavidDunn21 wrote:It's frankly shocking that you guys can't grasp this yet.

Yes, we would've beaten the Raptors with Giannis, Tatum, a really good Brogdon, Bledsoe, Niko, Brook and everyone else.

But do we beat the un-injured Warriors? No. Do we beat the injured Warriors with Middleton? Mabye. Remember that Lowry and Van Vleet still really had to step up...that series still wasn't a gimmie even after Klay went down.

Our failure has been so total, so foundational and so embarrassing that some of you haven't quite gotten that TALENT WINS IN THE NBA. We would've been lambs to the slaughter against any of the great Warriors teams, the Bron/Kyrie/Love Cavs, the 2018 Rockets or now the Nets and Lakers. TALENT WINS.

There have been TWO CONSECUTIVE FLUKE YEARS (Warriors hurt/bubble) AND WE COULDN'T TAKE ADVANTAGE AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON IS KHRIS MIDDLETON IS A CHOKING COWARD LOSER. Don't you ever post his (bad, but good for him) numbers in Game 4 of a series we lost in five games despite being favored as proof of anything.

emunney wrote:Who would you guys rather have had in 2019: Khris Middleton or the Wendigo of Algonquin lore

glenn wrote:

emunney wrote:Who would you guys rather have had in 2019: Khris Middleton or the Wendigo of Algonquin lore

Going to have to go with Khris. Obviously the Wendigo had the higher ceiling, but unless the Raptors would have consumed each other’s flesh I don’t think we would have seen it’s full potential.

DavidDunn21 wrote:It's frankly shocking that you guys can't grasp this yet.

Yes, we would've beaten the Raptors with Giannis, Tatum, a really good Brogdon, Bledsoe, Niko, Brook and everyone else.

But do we beat the un-injured Warriors? No. Do we beat the injured Warriors with Middleton? Mabye. Remember that Lowry and Van Vleet still really had to step up...that series still wasn't a gimmie even after Klay went down.

Our failure has been so total, so foundational and so embarrassing that some of you haven't quite gotten that TALENT WINS IN THE NBA. We would've been lambs to the slaughter against any of the great Warriors teams, the Bron/Kyrie/Love Cavs, the 2018 Rockets or now the Nets and Lakers. TALENT WINS.

There have been TWO CONSECUTIVE FLUKE YEARS (Warriors hurt/bubble) AND WE COULDN'T TAKE ADVANTAGE AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON IS KHRIS MIDDLETON IS A CHOKING COWARD LOSER. Don't you ever post his (bad, but good for him) numbers in Game 4 of a series we lost in five games despite being favored as proof of anything.

DavidDunn21 wrote:
If you can't accept failure staring you in the face, of course you don't know why.

Because you don't wanna know.

WRau1 wrote:Middleton is highly valued and respected around the league. That's just a fact. The "perception" of Midds hasn't negatively changed.