Khris Middleton Thread

[blazza18]

Middleton goes for 32 tomorrow and we get the win and this thread will be dead silent. Book it. Jumpshooters can have bad games or series, the issue is we dont have another microwave scorer outside of Giannis. Jrue needs to be more aggressive

Middleton has scored 32 or more in a playoff game just twice. Once when we were blown out and once when he took 28 shots. Which one do you think happens in game 3?

[Pachinko_]

Middleton goes for 32 tomorrow and we get the win and this thread will be dead silent. Book it. Jumpshooters can have bad games or series, the issue is we dont have another microwave scorer outside of Giannis. Jrue needs to be more aggressive

I mean it probably belongs to the game thread, but no I disagree this is the issue.
We shouldn't need mutiple microwave scorers to beat THAT defense. All year we've been averaging 120 per game and the Nets have been a below average defense, so how did we go from 120 to 86 all of a sudden against the corpse of Griffin, a second round sophomore and KD/KI/Harris who are universally known for anything you can imagine except defense? This is not the defense of the Kawhi Raptors we're talking about anymore, this is the **** Nets.

Obviously it appears that every other team has a different gear for the playoffs except for us.
So where's our extra gear gone? That's the question for Bud that nobody seems to be asking.

[Gianstoppable]

Middleton goes for 32 tomorrow and we get the win and this thread will be dead silent. Book it. Jumpshooters can have bad games or series, the issue is we dont have another microwave scorer outside of Giannis. Jrue needs to be more aggressive

Middleton has scored 32 or more in a playoff game just twice. Once when we were blown out and once when he took 28 shots. Which one do you think happens in game 3?

Well hes scored over 30 4 times so it's not out of the realm of possibility. I think he will be aggressive and he should be but just stray from forcing shots. Team needs to move the ball and get open looks.

[Gianstoppable]

Middleton goes for 32 tomorrow and we get the win and this thread will be dead silent. Book it. Jumpshooters can have bad games or series, the issue is we dont have another microwave scorer outside of Giannis. Jrue needs to be more aggressive

I mean it probably belongs to the game thread, but no I disagree this is the issue.
We shouldn't need mutiple microwave scorers to beat THAT defense. All year we've been averaging 120 per game and the Nets have been a below average defense, so how did we go from 120 to 86 all of a sudden against the corpse of Griffin, a second round sophomore and KD/KI/Harris who are universally known for anything you can imagine except defense?

Obviously it appears that every other team has a different gear for the playoffs except for us.
So where's our extra gear gone? That's the question for Bud that nobody seems to be asking.

The main reason is pretty obvious, their pace of play isnt directly correlated to playoff success, couple that with not making good looks and slacking on D it's a recipe for disaster. And day what you want about Griffin but he was CLEARLY sandbagging it in Detroit.

[Pachinko_]

The main reason is pretty obvious, their pace of play isnt directly correlated to playoff success, couple that with not making good looks and slacking on D it's a recipe for disaster. And day what you sanu bout Griffin but he was CLEARLY sandbagging it in Detroit.

Why is everyone else playing better in the playoffs except for us?

[Gianstoppable]

The main reason is pretty obvious, their pace of play isnt directly correlated to playoff success, couple that with not making good looks and slacking on D it's a recipe for disaster. And day what you sanu bout Griffin but he was CLEARLY sandbagging it in Detroit.

Why is everyone else playing better in the playoffs except for us?

Ask the Miami Heat

[Pachinko_]

The main reason is pretty obvious, their pace of play isnt directly correlated to playoff success, couple that with not making good looks and slacking on D it's a recipe for disaster. And day what you sanu bout Griffin but he was CLEARLY sandbagging it in Detroit.

Why is everyone else playing better in the playoffs except for us?

Ask the Miami Heat

Ask what? These guys went to the frickin NBA finals just last year.
Then they lost a couple of players, they ended up 6th, and lost to a 3 seed that was only 3 seed because they decided to take it easy in the regular season for the first time in 3 years.
Miami plays great in the playoffs.

[Gianstoppable]

Why is everyone else playing better in the playoffs except for us?

Ask the Miami Heat

Ask what? These guys went to the frickin NBA finals just last year.
Then they lost a couple of players, they ended up 6th, and lost to a 3 seed that was only 3 seed because they decided to take it easy in the regular season for the first time in 3 years.
Miami plays great in the playoffs.

You cant say Miami plays great in the playoffs while discounting the Bucks sweep for losing bench players for getting blown out by 30 each game all while saying "everyone plays better in the playoffs"

[Gianstoppable]

Remember 3 weeks ago when Bam was the Giannis stopper, Miami Heat were feared but took a step back and now all of a sudden Bam was exposed and people talk down on him. That's the power of a bad series. Midds was great in the miami series. Now hes had 2 bad games to start and everyone jumps ship again

[Antinomy]

For all his shortcomings, it’s crazy how much our fanbase devalues Khris.

He’s improved just as much as Giannis has over the past few years. He started off as a 3-D guy & has become a legit 3 level scorer.

Plenty of squads would value him & he would fit with ANY team in the league.

It’s unfortunate that he has to take the blame every time we flame out.

[Pachinko_]

You cant say Miami plays great in the playoffs while discounting the Bucks sweep for losing bench players for getting blown out by 30 each game all while saying "everyone plays better in the playoffs"

Bucks love to beat down on worse teams, they're just not a good indication (IMO)
The Heat to me looked significantly worse than last year, the old guys got one year older, lost those bench guys, and for whatever reason their young shooters lost their momentum.

[Gianstoppable]

You cant say Miami plays great in the playoffs while discounting the Bucks sweep for losing bench players for getting blown out by 30 each game all while saying "everyone plays better in the playoffs"

Bucks love to beat down on worse teams, they're just not a good indication (IMO)
The Heat to me looked significantly worse than last year, the old guys got one year older, lost those bench guys, and for whatever reason their young shooters lost their momentum.

Give the Bucks credit that they were flying around on defense all game and making shots. I havent seen the defensive hustle at all this series.

[Pachinko_]

Give the Bucks credit that they were flying around on defense all game and making shots. I havent seen the defensive hustle at all this series.

I'll give it to them man ok, credit to he Bucks for winning the 1st round as a 3 seed.
My question is why do they always buckle under pressure when the going starts getting tough? It seems almost everybody else brings out their best at those times except for the Bucks

It really is a question for the coach IMO, and it would take A LOT of explaining because it's not the first or the second time.

[th87]

For all his shortcomings, it’s crazy how much our fanbase devalues Khris.

He’s improved just as much as Giannis has over the past few years. He started off as a 3-D guy & has become a legit 3 level scorer.

Plenty of squads would value him & he would fit with ANY team in the league.

It’s unfortunate that he has to take the blame every time we flame out.

Because that's when he's a no-show.

[Antinomy]

For all his shortcomings, it’s crazy how much our fanbase devalues Khris.

He’s improved just as much as Giannis has over the past few years. He started off as a 3-D guy & has become a legit 3 level scorer.

Plenty of squads would value him & he would fit with ANY team in the league.

It’s unfortunate that he has to take the blame every time we flame out.

Because that's when he's a no-show.

He was BY FAR the best player in our series against the Heat last year.

The percentages look funny because of Game 5 & him being basically double-teamed the entire game.

He also played well against the Celtics in 2018 & 2019.

Giannis by comparison has been ghastly when matched up again good teams.

He was neutralized against Toronto & was absolutely horrid against Miami. He also got shut down AGAIN by Miami this year but was bailed out by Khris & Jrue.

2020 vs MIA: 22/11/5 on 51/21/54 (55%TS)

2021 vs MIA: 24/15/5 on 45/6(!)/63 (49%TS)

Khris averaged 22/7/4 on 49/41/90 (64%TS) against Miami this year & 26/7/6 last year.

Giannis has been just as big of a problem & he mostly hasn’t played well at all this postseason outside of Game 1 vs Brooklyn that was littered with bad decision making.

When we lose everybody gets the finger pointed at them except Giannis. If we really want him to get better, he needs to be held accountable too.

[th87]

For all his shortcomings, it’s crazy how much our fanbase devalues Khris.

He’s improved just as much as Giannis has over the past few years. He started off as a 3-D guy & has become a legit 3 level scorer.

Plenty of squads would value him & he would fit with ANY team in the league.

It’s unfortunate that he has to take the blame every time we flame out.

Because that's when he's a no-show.

He was BY FAR the best player in our series against the Heat last year.

The percentages look funny because of Game 5 & him being basically double-teamed the entire game.

He also played well against the Celtics in 2018 & 2019.

Giannis by comparison has been ghastly when matched up again good teams.

He was neutralized against Toronto & was absolutely horrid against Miami. He also got shut down AGAIN by Miami this year but was bailed out by Khris & Jrue.

2020 vs MIA: 22/11/5 on 51/21/54 (55%TS)

2021 vs MIA: 24/15/5 on 45/6(!)/63 (49%TS)

Khris averaged 22/7/4 on 49/41/90 (64%TS) against Miami this year & 26/7/6 last year.

Giannis has been just as big of a problem & he mostly hasn’t played well at all this postseason outside of Game 1 vs Brooklyn that was littered with bad decision making.

When we lose everybody gets the finger pointed at them except Giannis. If we really want him to get better, he needs to be held accountable too.

Yeah, but he goes full series being atrocious. Fans would be more charitable if he has a bad game and bounces back, but once he's down, he's down. And that costs the series.

Giannis' honeymoon phase is over. He's starting to be blamed too. It's clear him as the initiator should be a counter rather than a feature, and he should be posting up or being the roll man. Why haven't they figured this out yet?

[Baddy Chuck]

My opinion on Khris is largely unchanged. When the offense is clicking, namely when Giannis is in his bag, Khris is a fine player. Obviously you'd want more from "fine" for what we're paying him but I think it largely is what it is in our market. I think when he's forced to be the 1a type guy obviously things devolve quickly. Unfortunately a lot of that revolves around Giannis figuring out what he has to figure out. For better or worse, we're obviously rolling with Giannis and at that point I think you kinda have to roll with Midds. I think over the years the talk of "lesser player A+B would be better then Middleton alone" is really overblown, especially factoring in when the Giannis bus grinds to a halt and you'd have to watch those players fend for themselves. I think at that point all you're looking at is simply another look, shuffling chairs stuff.

The real what ifs to me are the star moves. Kyrie wants off the Cavs? Butler wants off the Timberwolves? You go all out to get another star next to Giannis. Midds+Brogdon? Of course you throw that out there. They want a first or something on top? Go for it. Always should have been the play and there was opportunities to do so before we got to where we are now. If only Harden forced his way out a few months sooner, that could have been something special as well. Outside of that you would have pretty much had to gamble on draft stock. Still think Golden State could have offered a package for him that would have been extremely tempting and if you got sold on a young guy the trade would have paid huge dividends. Trade Midds for Lamelo or Hailburton +++++ right now? I sure would.

I think trading Khris for pennies on the dollar would be a bad look. I could see him really exceeding in a better offense, hopefully that could be us one day but man that clock is ticking.

[Antinomy]

People are basically upset that Khris isn’t Kawhi.

What guys in his tier or near it would really make us better? PG? Tobias? Pre-injury Klay? A guy like CJ McCollum is atleast a tier below.

None of them would. And they’ve ALL had issues in the playoffs. Also, ALL of them are the 2nd option on their teams.

And guess what? All of those guys are on the max or have larger contracts than Khris too.

Our issues are that Giannis’ limitations or mental errors force other guys into roles they shouldn’t have to be in.

An elite dynamic scoring guard w/range would solve all of our problems. Someone that could explode for 35-40+ points on any given night.

Unfortunately, there are only about 5 of them in the league at any given time.

[paulpressey25]

People are basically upset that Khris isn’t Kawhi.

None of them would. And they’ve ALL had issues in the playoffs. Also, ALL of them are the 2nd option on their teams.

And guess what? All of those guys are on the max or have larger contracts than Khris too.

Our issues are that Giannis’ limitations or mental errors force other guys into roles they shouldn’t have to be in.

This is where the team needed to think outside the box. Don't think anyone confuses Khris with Kawhi, nor should they. However, there was a cadre of Middleton supporters who confused him with Klay. And as such, the team prioritized and paid him like Klay.

Then there was an alternate group of us who saw him as a slight upgrade over other guys out there that could be had for less money like Bojan or even now Bogdan (or John Salmons circa 2008). And at the money, you could have two of those type guys versus one Khris. And given that Khris was sort of in the 30th best player in the league range, he wasn't going to move the needle for us as much as having two guys in the 50th overall best player range would have IMO.

Just my take. Middleton is capable of exploding tomorrow night and helping us get the win. He just doesn't do it consistently enough to get us over the hump.

[MiltownHawkeye]

The Middleton/McCollum swap scenario has come up from time to time the past few seasons and I never wanted to entertain it out of a deluded feeling that each year was our year for whatever reason, and to not break up the Giannis/Middleton duo. Middleton is, in a vacuum, a more impactful player and I don't want to take everything he brings for granted.

That said I'm buying more and more into two things:

1) We need a change of scenery apart from just shuffling around role players
2) We need a real, credible perimeter volume scorer

I won't be surprised at all if this is the button we push. Has a real "shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic" feel to it for both teams where they over-romanticize the good traits of the player they get back (CJ's shot creation, Middleton's positional versatility/efficiency and tertiary playmaking) and it's still not enough.

CJ does not solve our offensive issues by himself and probably creates additional ones on defense, but at the same time he is a completely credible #2 scorer that will rarely look like a complete disaster (a la Middleton) when you ask him to be your #1 guy. He's kind of a throwback to the Chucker twins, but he's also been suffering from diminishing returns playing alongside someone who is literally just a better version of him. Pretty much every perimeter player gets a boost efficiency-wise playing with Giannis, no reason he'd be different. Plus CJ's ball security is impeccable whereas Middleton's...yeah. a partial byproduct of not being as willing of a passer to be sure, but my point is that there are numerous times in the last 3+ seasons we've needed someone we can trust to create a good shot for themselves.

Blazers fans would take Middleton for McCollum in a heartbeat too, from what I've seen. No hold-up there.

So yeah I'm slightly ambivalent on how much acquiring CJ would actually help but I think there's gonna be a ton of chatter about this and I'm now at the point where I'm saying "**** it, let's give it a shot." I don't think a Dame/Kyrie/Curry/Mitchell/CP3 is coming through that door otherwise and the current build isn't working.