RealGM

DrWood wrote:

emunney wrote:I disagree with DD about Middleton but also: he's an asset to this board. Just felt with the pile on that somebody should acknowledge that plain fact.

I would go so far as to say that he's a fringe all-star poster, but I want to see him prove his posting mettle in the playoffs before I'd call him a true all-star.

do you get a trophy for being a "fringe all-star poster?"

No

I used to think he was overrated but he proved me wrong last night when he torched my guys. His shot making ability is unreal... he’s honestly the perfect complement to Giannis. Y’all got a bright future with these guys

Top 10 player atm, with the stats end even eye test to back it up! Gotta mark it down so we won't forget

I've always been a Khris guy, but even the biggest Khris guy in the world wouldn't have expected he would be playing at this level. I wonder how much moving on from Brogdon has opened things up for Khris? It's hard to believe this can all be attributed to year 2 in Buds system

MickeyDavis wrote:

DrWood wrote:

emunney wrote:I disagree with DD about Middleton but also: he's an asset to this board. Just felt with the pile on that somebody should acknowledge that plain fact.

I would go so far as to say that he's a fringe all-star poster, but I want to see him prove his posting mettle in the playoffs before I'd call him a true all-star.

do you get a trophy for being a "fringe all-star poster?"

No

A fringe all-star post is it's own reward.

Calling DD21 a "fringe all-star" is essentially, from his perspective, calling him Khris Middleton. Amazing when life comes full circle.

H2tObes wrote:Top 10 player atm, with the stats end even eye test to back it up! Gotta mark it down so we won't forget

I've always been a Khris guy, but even the biggest Khris guy in the world wouldn't have expected he would be playing at this level. I wonder how much moving on from Brogdon has opened things up for Khris? It's hard to believe this can all be attributed to year 2 in Buds system

I think it's more with Bud and Khris figuring out that it doesn't have to be three pointers or layups with him. He's getting the shots he's most comfortable with and Bud's letting him.

ReasonablySober wrote:

H2tObes wrote:Top 10 player atm, with the stats end even eye test to back it up! Gotta mark it down so we won't forget

I've always been a Khris guy, but even the biggest Khris guy in the world wouldn't have expected he would be playing at this level. I wonder how much moving on from Brogdon has opened things up for Khris? It's hard to believe this can all be attributed to year 2 in Buds system

I think it's more with Bud and Khris figuring out that it doesn't have to be three pointers or layups with him. He's getting the shots he's most comfortable with and Bud's letting him.

He's also better, though, yeah? He's doing stuff he's never done before.

Bucksfan28 wrote:Calling DD21 a "fringe all-star" is essentially, from his perspective, calling him Khris Middleton. Amazing when life comes full circle.

I assumed that was the glaringly obvious parallel emunney was repeatedly making in his posts about double d.

emunney wrote:

ReasonablySober wrote:

H2tObes wrote:Top 10 player atm, with the stats end even eye test to back it up! Gotta mark it down so we won't forget

I've always been a Khris guy, but even the biggest Khris guy in the world wouldn't have expected he would be playing at this level. I wonder how much moving on from Brogdon has opened things up for Khris? It's hard to believe this can all be attributed to year 2 in Buds system

I think it's more with Bud and Khris figuring out that it doesn't have to be three pointers or layups with him. He's getting the shots he's most comfortable with and Bud's letting him.

He's also better, though, yeah? He's doing stuff he's never done before.

The thing to me more than anything is that he’s being much more decisive. Catch and shoot instantly. One, two, dribbles into a pull up J. Pump fake and go, pull up at his spots with no hesitation. Everything he’s doing he’s doing decisively. Way less dancing with the ball, tons of rhythm dribbles and 4 second post ups, “going to work” on guys too much basically. His handle and lack of burst would get him into trouble when he was indecisive, and we’d see ugly stagnant possessions and silly turnovers. Now, just doing simple stuff quickly and with a purpose Khris is “playing faster” but is massively more effective. It’s such a marked difference from previous years.

I also think he’s in noticeably better shape (and better conditioned) than years prior and his defensive commitment is at an all time high. Also, now that’s he’s gotten recognition as an all star his confidence seems higher which should hopefully pay dividends when we inevitably face adversity again in the playoffs.

ReasonablySober wrote:

H2tObes wrote:Top 10 player atm, with the stats end even eye test to back it up! Gotta mark it down so we won't forget

I've always been a Khris guy, but even the biggest Khris guy in the world wouldn't have expected he would be playing at this level. I wonder how much moving on from Brogdon has opened things up for Khris? It's hard to believe this can all be attributed to year 2 in Buds system

I think it's more with Bud and Khris figuring out that it doesn't have to be three pointers or layups with him. He's getting the shots he's most comfortable with and Bud's letting him.

It's the evolution of the offense. Sure, partially it's Khris, but it's also every single player understanding the reactions to what the defense does.

Last year was, Do A. It was retraining 3 years of bull. That's hard.

This year is Do A. If the defense does B then C. If the defense does D then E...

We saw the adjustment vs the Raps.

Ridiculous ball pressure means more ball screens and backdoor cuts.

I have to admit that I did not watch much of the Golden State rise to dominance, but going back and looking at the numbers it sure seems as if the season that Middleton is having is statistically better/similar to the best years Klay Thompson had for the Warriors.

While no question Khris has been a fabulously efficient scorer this year, i do think he's also a pretty good passer and rebounder. He's got that well rounded type of game that every team is looking for from a SF wing player.

emunney wrote:

ReasonablySober wrote:

H2tObes wrote:Top 10 player atm, with the stats end even eye test to back it up! Gotta mark it down so we won't forget

I've always been a Khris guy, but even the biggest Khris guy in the world wouldn't have expected he would be playing at this level. I wonder how much moving on from Brogdon has opened things up for Khris? It's hard to believe this can all be attributed to year 2 in Buds system

I think it's more with Bud and Khris figuring out that it doesn't have to be three pointers or layups with him. He's getting the shots he's most comfortable with and Bud's letting him.

He's also better, though, yeah? He's doing stuff he's never done before.

Driving into a packed paint and kicking. Never seen him do that before. Handle is probably never going to get to a level to do it consistently but it's a nice extra string to his bow.

His handle is still his biggest liability, IMO. It's the one thing about his game right now that I find infuriating. He's good for one or two turnovers a game just based on him dribbling it off of himself.

Fortunately, though, they've got a lot of ballhandlers - Giannis, Bledsoe, Hill, Donte - who can drop it to him in favorable spots.

Just for the record: 48 bad pass turnovers (~1/game), 29 lost ball turnovers (.6/game).

That's not to say it's not a lot, particularly for a guy who doesn't drive all that much. Jimmy Butler has comparable usage and has had 13 lost ball turnovers. Fournier, though, has 38 in 57 games. Paul George has 29 in 36 games. Jaylen Brown, who I'm sure we'd all agree has bigger ball handling problems, has 43 in 48 games. So while Middleton could certainly be a better ball handler, he does ok, particularly given the playmaking he's taken on.

mattg wrote:The thing to me more than anything is that he’s being much more decisive. Catch and shoot instantly. One, two, dribbles into a pull up J. Pump fake and go, pull up at his spots with no hesitation. Everything he’s doing he’s doing decisively. Way less dancing with the ball, tons of rhythm dribbles and 4 second post ups, “going to work” on guys too much basically. His handle and lack of burst would get him into trouble when he was indecisive, and we’d see ugly stagnant possessions and silly turnovers. Now, just doing simple stuff quickly and with a purpose Khris is “playing faster” but is massively more effective. It’s such a marked difference from previous years.

I also think he’s in noticeably better shape (and better conditioned) than years prior and his defensive commitment is at an all time high. Also, now that’s he’s gotten recognition as an all star his confidence seems higher which should hopefully pay dividends when we inevitably face adversity again in the playoffs.

All of this. I still think conditioning and training explain just about everything. Hell, even some (not all) of his mishandles could be explained by conditioning. His lack of agility made it hard for his feet to keep up with his dribbles, and he couldn't execute his moves because his feet were too heavy.

It's interesting that it never seems to have anything to do with a contract year either. I mean, he was just as lackadaisical in his recent contract year as he was in the first year of his last pseudo-max deal. And now that he got his huge deal, he's working harder than ever. It's completely independent of contract status. Most players with inconsistent work ethics are blatant contract year guys, but Khris apparently needed some individual and team success to motivate him for more.

I've never had nearly the issue with Khris' ball-handling that a lot of people here seem to have. That skills competition gaffe was too perfect though.

Bucksfan28 wrote:I've never had nearly the issue with Khris' ball-handling that a lot of people here seem to have. That skills competition gaffe was too perfect though.

When we first traded for Khris and the season after that he would run PnR and it was a disaster scenario a lot. He also would have a lot of unforced dribbling turnovers.

Midds has been absurd the last few months.

If he doesn't make All-NBA we riot.