ImageImage

All Star Khris Middleton Thread

Moderators: paulpressey25, MickeyDavis

User avatar
WRau1
General Manager
Posts: 8,540
And1: 1,874
Joined: Apr 30, 2005
Location: Milwaukee
     

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#821 » by WRau1 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:34 pm

Keep Middleton, trade for PG13. Those two together should be a sufficient #2.
Mtsportsfan
Ballboy
Posts: 49
And1: 18
Joined: Oct 21, 2017
     

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#822 » by Mtsportsfan » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:16 pm

I like Middleton too, just not at the price we are paying. He's just not that dynamic type of player. That's why I wouldn't mind trading him, just to get rid that contract before he is un tradable.
msiris
General Manager
Posts: 8,842
And1: 901
Joined: Jul 25, 2005
Location: Central Wisconsin

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#823 » by msiris » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:41 pm

midranger wrote:We desperately need a guy with an advanced handle who can break down the D and get to the rim. I don’t necessarily want to lose Khris, but.... he ain’t that guy.
If we can get that without trading Middleton it would be great. I just do not see us netting a 2nd star for him.
Ride the tank
Bucksfan28
Head Coach
Posts: 6,167
And1: 2,810
Joined: Nov 15, 2009

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#824 » by Bucksfan28 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:55 pm

midranger wrote:We desperately need a guy with an advanced handle who can break down the D and get to the rim.


8-)

MoreTrife wrote:Love seeing two buffoons have a buffoon competition.
User avatar
giannis and 1
Junior
Posts: 320
And1: 149
Joined: Jan 06, 2019
Location: surrounded by craptor fans in Vancouver, BC
       

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#825 » by giannis and 1 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:06 pm

DavidDunn21 wrote:I have a weird obsessive compulsion with seeing the Bucks win a title/get to a Finals. Everyone here understood way before Giannis what low odds were involved with that. The market size, the player empowerment era, the incompetence, the whispers of "segregation", the places that The Decision took the league, etc. It was less than 50/50 that we'd even still be in Milwaukee.

This board was here way before me filled with smart guys who loved basketball and just wanted to see the Bucks compete and be in the mix. A lot of those guys are older than me and at the very least saw the folly of giving contracts to guys who were head-cases or one-year wonders or washed-up big names or good stats/bad teams guys. You know the names.

And then miracle of miracles we stumble into a million to one shot. A dominant big/wing who we draft who just keeps getting better and better. Somehow this guy also says all the right things, isn't corrupted by AAU culture, is small-town humble but with aggressive competitive swagger on the court, a good teammate, handsome, the FULL PACKAGE. Perhaps most importantly for us as tortured Bucks fans, this kid is pathologically loyal.

This was the hard part. This was the impossible piece. Finding the second star in a league full of good players has been our mission since 2016 or so. And Bucks Twitter and RealGM and everywhere else looked at a lazy unathletic 2nd Round pick who is one of the least competitive, most front-running players I've ever seen in my life and shrugged and said: "Good enough. Let's overpay this guy"

Frankly, I will never get over this. But I'm very happy for many of you who have a weird obsessive compulsion with calling Khris Middleton "underrated" or even "good" because now you get to spend the offseason talking about how he got screwed out of 3rd Team All NBA and was so close to 50/40/90. You even get to yadayadayada the bubble and say stuff like: "Really Middleton was our best player against the Heat!"

He's just not that good. He's just not that good. He's just not that good.

And now we've ruined our one in a million shot. That's why I was obsessed with this.

You can argue that Middleton is not a 2nd option on a championship team and you can argue that he has a bad contract. But calling him lazy and not competitive is ridiculous. I'm sorry but that's the truth.
still learning the game
User avatar
giannis and 1
Junior
Posts: 320
And1: 149
Joined: Jan 06, 2019
Location: surrounded by craptor fans in Vancouver, BC
       

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#826 » by giannis and 1 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:10 pm

midranger wrote:We desperately need a guy with an advanced handle who can break down the D and get to the rim. I don’t necessarily want to lose Khris, but.... he ain’t that guy.

Who is the guy then? CJ Mccollum is not it. Westbrook is not it. Derozen is not it. Who are we going to trade Middleton for that makes us a better team? I don't see it unless the Warriors lose their mind and give us Klay Thompson for him.
still learning the game
User avatar
WRau1
General Manager
Posts: 8,540
And1: 1,874
Joined: Apr 30, 2005
Location: Milwaukee
     

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#827 » by WRau1 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:19 pm

We don't have the assets to get a player better than Middleton but we might be able to get one just as good. A Bledsoe+Lopez+Ersan+picks package could be sufficient, then hope we can sign another big. Maybe Cousins.
User avatar
DavidDunn21
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,673
And1: 1,511
Joined: Nov 19, 2014
   

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#828 » by DavidDunn21 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:13 am

giannis and 1 wrote:
DavidDunn21 wrote:I have a weird obsessive compulsion with seeing the Bucks win a title/get to a Finals. Everyone here understood way before Giannis what low odds were involved with that. The market size, the player empowerment era, the incompetence, the whispers of "segregation", the places that The Decision took the league, etc. It was less than 50/50 that we'd even still be in Milwaukee.

This board was here way before me filled with smart guys who loved basketball and just wanted to see the Bucks compete and be in the mix. A lot of those guys are older than me and at the very least saw the folly of giving contracts to guys who were head-cases or one-year wonders or washed-up big names or good stats/bad teams guys. You know the names.

And then miracle of miracles we stumble into a million to one shot. A dominant big/wing who we draft who just keeps getting better and better. Somehow this guy also says all the right things, isn't corrupted by AAU culture, is small-town humble but with aggressive competitive swagger on the court, a good teammate, handsome, the FULL PACKAGE. Perhaps most importantly for us as tortured Bucks fans, this kid is pathologically loyal.

This was the hard part. This was the impossible piece. Finding the second star in a league full of good players has been our mission since 2016 or so. And Bucks Twitter and RealGM and everywhere else looked at a lazy unathletic 2nd Round pick who is one of the least competitive, most front-running players I've ever seen in my life and shrugged and said: "Good enough. Let's overpay this guy"

Frankly, I will never get over this. But I'm very happy for many of you who have a weird obsessive compulsion with calling Khris Middleton "underrated" or even "good" because now you get to spend the offseason talking about how he got screwed out of 3rd Team All NBA and was so close to 50/40/90. You even get to yadayadayada the bubble and say stuff like: "Really Middleton was our best player against the Heat!"

He's just not that good. He's just not that good. He's just not that good.

And now we've ruined our one in a million shot. That's why I was obsessed with this.

You can argue that Middleton is not a 2nd option on a championship team and you can argue that he has a bad contract. But calling him lazy and not competitive is ridiculous. I'm sorry but that's the truth.
Oh really?

What evidence do you have?

I've got every 4th Quarter and him getting benched for not playing hard and him admitting he didn't shoot for three months and his overall physique and DOZENS OF BIG GAMES IN THE REGULAR SEASON AND PLAYOFFS. I've got statistical, anecdotal, quotes from his own mouth and eye test.

Show your cards sir. I call.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using RealGM mobile app
Image
User avatar
DavidDunn21
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,673
And1: 1,511
Joined: Nov 19, 2014
   

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#829 » by DavidDunn21 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:38 am

KhrisMissaton wrote:
DavidDunn21 wrote:This was the hard part. This was the impossible piece. Finding the second star in a league full of good players has been our mission since 2016 or so. And Bucks Twitter and RealGM and everywhere else looked at a lazy unathletic 2nd Round pick who is one of the least competitive, most front-running players I've ever seen in my life and shrugged and said: "Good enough. Let's overpay this guy"

Given my name I think it's pretty obvious I have issues with Middleton, but I never understand when posts say stuff like this. You're acting like RealGM and "Bucks Twitter" has a say in if we sign Khris Middleton. I am very confident than Marc Lasry and Wes Edens did not scour the RealGM Bucks forum for opinions on whether to max Khris. I know some on this board have had delusions of grandeur in the past as far as their ability to influence the team, but yeah, I don't think it factored in.
Fair point, but let's for a moment imagine a world where Frank Madden shares all my opinions about Khris. For giggles, let's say Nehm does also.

Everything else transpires the exact same way, the Toronto collapse, Khris getting benched, Khris in the World Championships, the bubble playoffs, etc. But Frank & Eric are KILLING KHRIS every step of the way. They are citing historical precedent for championship teams, they are correctly asking how we can possibly be asked to compete with the Warriors or LA teams, they are putting him in fake trades.

They're acting like me in other words. Except people respect them.

Instead of asking one tough question about the owners' willingness to pay the luxury tax during the LOB bar night with Alex Lasry, they ask a second tough question about whether or not massively overpaying Khris Middleton is a path to a Championship. And so on.

Do you really think everything transpires exactly the same? I don't. We got through most of this year free of even the most basic ("The Bucks supporting cast isn't good enough") takes. Even those tended to come from national sources. We as a fan base were mostly all-in on the roster, to the point that a despicable Khris Middleton Is Good campaign emerged. Khris Middleton is Good became the new ironic "Bucks in 6".

We've embarrassed ourselves. We didn't demand improvements, we didn't demand spending, we didn't question Bud and we tolerated Bledsoe. Collectively, not individually. We were just happy to be in the mix.

So no, you don't have any power, and I don't have any power, and RealGM doesn't have any power...but the fan base as a whole MATTERS. Too bad we valued the wrong things.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using RealGM mobile app
Image
GHOSTofSIKMA
RealGM
Posts: 17,247
And1: 4,437
Joined: Jan 21, 2007
Location: NC
     

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#830 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:29 am

pretty **** stupid discussion going on here. the hate for middeton is simpIe. its either because youve been saying it so Iong that even after hes become top 15 in the Ieague you refuse to admit your wrong.... as previousIy stated... its your schtick.... OR.... youre a giannis fan boy and you dont want to acknowIedge the reason weve faiIed each of the Iast two years reside primariIy on our #1... not our #2, or #3 or 4 or 5 or whatever. were just Iike any other team trying to make a Ieap. were waiting on our superstar to be that Ievei. nothing Iess nothing more. this is on giannis nobody eIse. this team has been right there and our star couIdnt make a shot when it mattered. down the stretch of every big game mostIy when we were even Ieading the others guys on giannis IeveI cIosed and we Iocked up. game over. when giannis can impose his wiII and win a game then so wiII the bucks. its IiteraIIy that simpIe
User avatar
blazza18
RealGM
Posts: 42,933
And1: 17,506
Joined: Dec 02, 2010
       

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#831 » by blazza18 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:45 am

Middleton one of the rare top 15 players in the league to not have the responsibility of being a top 15 player in the league. All while being paid the 7th highest total in the league. What a **** life.
trwi7 wrote:Ban yourself you asshole.
mattg
Head Coach
Posts: 6,711
And1: 1,803
Joined: Feb 12, 2007

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#832 » by mattg » Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:26 am

blazza18 wrote:Middleton one of the rare top 15 players in the league to not have the responsibility of being a top 15 player in the league. All while being paid the 7th highest total in the league. What a **** life.

Agree with this. But also hold the opinion that Giannis being just unbelievably awful as a decision maker the last 2 playoffs while completely dominating the ball is 80% of why we haven't won. It doesn't matter what roster we put around him if he plays like he has the last 2 years, we will never ever win a title.
Coach Carter
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,759
And1: 3,180
Joined: Apr 28, 2017

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#833 » by Coach Carter » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:47 am

Khris isn't to blame, whilst Giannis is who he is at this stage of his career. Let's focus on the real issue. This team doesn't have a point guard that can make his teammates better or at least someone that can score off the dribble. The thunder are loaded at that position. Compare that to what we have. Bledsoe, I never liked the fit whilst hill was serviceable until he wasn't. Some people here were proposing we make a move for Dragic. Don't think heat would've done it though.
User avatar
coolhandluke121
RealGM
Posts: 10,090
And1: 3,838
Joined: Sep 23, 2007

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#834 » by coolhandluke121 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:20 pm

Honestly the biggest issue is probably one spectacularly awful personnel move after another during the Kidd era. You can easily - easily - compensate for the deficiencies of Giannis, Khris, and Bud if you get literally anything worth more than a pile of feces for the #2 pick, the #10 and #17 pick, the picks you gave away for Greivis frickin' Vasquez, and the salary slots you invested in Mirza, Monroe, Dellavedova, Henson, and Miles FOR THE LOVE OF GOD $52 MILLION DOLLARS Plumlee.

Yeah, there's clearly room for improvement for everyone else involved, but they've gotten a lot of solid contributions out of all of them despite their flaws. Just look at the fail rate of all those other moves and consider that they could have gotten assets that would be valuable now for nearly all of those things with even an average front office.
Wut we've got here is... faaailure... to communakate.
GHOSTofSIKMA
RealGM
Posts: 17,247
And1: 4,437
Joined: Jan 21, 2007
Location: NC
     

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#835 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:21 pm

blazza18 wrote:Middleton one of the rare top 15 players in the league to not have the responsibility of being a top 15 player in the league. All while being paid the 7th highest total in the league. What a **** life.


middleton being top 15 or 20 or 25 whatever. hes an allstar who plays a game that wins in the playoffs. hes not the reason were losing unless youre looking for excuses why the mvp isnt good enough on his own. then everybody on this roster is open game. milwaukee as a city is open game. the coaches. the gm. blame it on whatever. its all a strawman
GHOSTofSIKMA
RealGM
Posts: 17,247
And1: 4,437
Joined: Jan 21, 2007
Location: NC
     

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#836 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:23 pm

Coach Carter wrote:Khris isn't to blame, whilst Giannis is who he is at this stage of his career. Let's focus on the real issue. This team doesn't have a point guard that can make his teammates better or at least someone that can score off the dribble. The thunder are loaded at that position. Compare that to what we have. Bledsoe, I never liked the fit whilst hill was serviceable until he wasn't. Some people here were proposing we make a move for Dragic. Don't think heat would've done it though.


what good is a ball dominant pg who can score off the dribble? would he be the new playmaker on this team?

its still going to giannis and hes still gonna airball 3's and fts and hold the ball and make to many turnovers. maybe literally chris paul being here taking the ball away and telling him to knock it the **** off when were up 8 in the 4th and about to lose, again, the exact same way, would it make a difference. it takes a guy like paul with the stones and the respect to take the ball out of his hands and make him that #2
GHOSTofSIKMA
RealGM
Posts: 17,247
And1: 4,437
Joined: Jan 21, 2007
Location: NC
     

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#837 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:31 pm

we have talented balanced unselfish veteran well coached teams each of the last two years. won a **** ton of games. blown everybody out all season long......if our star cant win with the teams weve had i have very little optimism moving forward. if for him, to win, he needs to be a pippen which has been suggested EVERYWHERE but on this board then thats a problem. he will never be a pippen here... ever. finding his playoff batman will only happen if he leaves. thats the only route i fear
ReginaldDwight
Starter
Posts: 2,241
And1: 883
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
   

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#838 » by ReginaldDwight » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:32 pm

Some of you guys still acting like Khris is anything special. Top 15 player? Y’all need to pass that chronic.
User avatar
paulpressey25
Senior Mod - Bucks
Senior Mod - Bucks
Posts: 56,105
And1: 15,704
Joined: Oct 27, 2002
     

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#839 » by paulpressey25 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:51 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:Honestly the biggest issue is probably one spectacularly awful personnel move after another during the Kidd era.


We spent years on here talking about it. Bud came and put plywood over the cracks in the hull, but the water finally poured in.

The draft was the area of failures

2014 - Jabari. Not a bad pick in context but we needed to deal him fall of 2016 when the Celtics were calling offering that pick and Crowder. In the 2nd round I wouldn't have expected them to find Jokic, but Inglis and JOB were washouts

2015 - Vaughn and dumping multiple pick for Greivis. Ugh

2016 - We could have Jamal Murray on this roster NOW, but Kidd played injured Middleton 43 minutes and Giannis 41 minutes to get that OT victory on the Sixers the last week of the year bumping us down to #10 slot. Then we compounded it by taking Thon over Sabonis. We did steal Brogdon in round two, but then lost him.

2017 - DJ Wilson. Terrible. Nothing great after us but good active bodies like OG, John Collins, Jarrett Allen and Kuzma

You just can't botch four straight draft years. Add in tying up your salary cap with the Henson extension, Monroe and Plumlee deals.
In depth discussions here - shorter stuff on Twitter

https://twitter.com/paulpressey25
GHOSTofSIKMA
RealGM
Posts: 17,247
And1: 4,437
Joined: Jan 21, 2007
Location: NC
     

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#840 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:52 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:Honestly the biggest issue is probably one spectacularly awful personnel move after another during the Kidd era. You can easily - easily - compensate for the deficiencies of Giannis, Khris, and Bud if you get literally anything worth more than a pile of feces for the #2 pick, the #10 and #17 pick, the picks you gave away for Greivis frickin' Vasquez, and the salary slots you invested in Mirza, Monroe, Dellavedova, Henson, and Miles FOR THE LOVE OF GOD $52 MILLION DOLLARS Plumlee.

Yeah, there's clearly room for improvement for everyone else involved, but they've gotten a lot of solid contributions out of all of them despite their flaws. Just look at the fail rate of all those other moves and consider that they could have gotten assets that would be valuable now for nearly all of those things with even an average front office.


other than maybe not drafting embiid or sabonis there are no difference makers in any of those drafts. i mean look at the actual boards and who was taken 10 picks after each one. who would actually even be getting time on this team on those lists. it wasnt so much that we whiffed we just didnt hit it out of the park.

Return to Milwaukee Bucks