ImageImage

All Star Khris Middleton Thread

Moderators: paulpressey25, MickeyDavis

User avatar
yannisk
Analyst
Posts: 3,143
And1: 2,049
Joined: Jul 14, 2013

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#841 » by yannisk » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:54 pm

Middleton is one of the best 15 players in the league? which league is that?
GHOSTofSIKMA
RealGM
Posts: 17,247
And1: 4,437
Joined: Jan 21, 2007
Location: NC
     

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#842 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:58 pm

yannisk wrote:Middleton is one of the best 15 players in the league? which league is that?


hes somewhere 14-20 by any definition. if you got him outside of that either direction youre just wrong

ws/48 which giannis ran away with this year and defines his mvp campaign..... middleton was 12th in the league...... sandwiched between doncic and lebron. i pull the centers out and hes 8th.

metrics love him. boxscore stats love him... 21/5/4 on 50/40/90. my lord has he improved year after year. sid, ray, and now giannis have been better bucks in my lifetime.....but then theres this guy. by the time its done hes probably a top 5 alltime buck.

i mean you can argue against him with anecdotal eye test **** but that really doesnt deserve discussion.
User avatar
ReasonablySober
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 78,260
And1: 18,274
Joined: Dec 02, 2001
Location: Cheap dinner. Watch basketball. Bone down.
Contact:
         

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#843 » by ReasonablySober » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:21 pm

It's not a stretch at all to say he was one of the 15 best players last season.
Magic Giannison wrote:TRADE GIANNIS

GHOSTofSIKMA
RealGM
Posts: 17,247
And1: 4,437
Joined: Jan 21, 2007
Location: NC
     

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#844 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:27 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:It's not a stretch at all to say he was one of the 15 best players last season.


yes good point... last season. what gives me great optimism regarding him tho is that like giannis he seems to improve each and every year. im sure he'll have some down shooting seasons from last year but his old man game and passing especially just seems like its getting more effective and better every year.

i hope hes a buck for a long long time.
User avatar
Fotis St
Head Coach
Posts: 7,065
And1: 1,842
Joined: May 05, 2015
 

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#845 » by Fotis St » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:32 pm

Who gives a damn about Season Stats anymore ?

Khris still does for sure, he wanted that 50/40/90

In case you didn't notice this Early Elimination has hurt all players and Coach value ...

Most of the people, consider us Pretenders , not Contenders after 2 times in row No1 seed not making the Finals and 2ndR Exit

PS The Moon is lighted by the Sun. It helps our climate but it is NOT a star
My draft picks: '15 Jerian Grant, '16 Thon Maker, '17 Isaiah Hartenstein/Semi Ojeleye/*John Collins, '18 Trade down Devonte Graham/Elie Okobo, Hamidou Diallo, buy a 2nd for Kostas
GHOSTofSIKMA
RealGM
Posts: 17,247
And1: 4,437
Joined: Jan 21, 2007
Location: NC
     

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#846 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:49 pm

where can you find stats for how giannis does with no middleton and middleton with no giannis over the last 2 years?
User avatar
Fotis St
Head Coach
Posts: 7,065
And1: 1,842
Joined: May 05, 2015
 

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#847 » by Fotis St » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:49 pm

According to stats we are the best team in the NBA ... in reality the Miami Heat the 11th best Team almost swept us
My draft picks: '15 Jerian Grant, '16 Thon Maker, '17 Isaiah Hartenstein/Semi Ojeleye/*John Collins, '18 Trade down Devonte Graham/Elie Okobo, Hamidou Diallo, buy a 2nd for Kostas
User avatar
trwi7
RealGM
Posts: 107,283
And1: 21,371
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Location: Aussie bias
         

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#848 » by trwi7 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:57 pm

I feel like I would understand Fotis St's posts more if I did acid before I read them.
stellation wrote:What's the difference between Gery Woelful and this glass of mineral water? The mineral water actually has a source."


I Hate Manure wrote:We look to be awful next season without Beasley.
User avatar
Fotis St
Head Coach
Posts: 7,065
And1: 1,842
Joined: May 05, 2015
 

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#849 » by Fotis St » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:14 pm

trwi7 wrote:I feel like I would understand Fotis St's posts more if I did acid before I read them.

My posts are sculpted , even acid does nothing to them ...
my point is whole Bucks Defensive Stats are inflated by Bud's System and Giannis presence...
For example our 2 2nd ALL NBA Defensive Team Bledsoe and Lopez could not stop Dragic and Vucevic
I am sorry , its not "they could not stop" ... they couldn't get a single stop ...
So for our current roster we need to re-evaluate who is what ?

One thing is for sure ... if you take Giannis out of this team ... Bucks are basically Melo's NY Knicks (Melo=Khris)
My draft picks: '15 Jerian Grant, '16 Thon Maker, '17 Isaiah Hartenstein/Semi Ojeleye/*John Collins, '18 Trade down Devonte Graham/Elie Okobo, Hamidou Diallo, buy a 2nd for Kostas
User avatar
blazza18
RealGM
Posts: 42,933
And1: 17,506
Joined: Dec 02, 2010
       

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#850 » by blazza18 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:29 pm

yannisk wrote:Middleton is one of the best 15 players in the league? which league is that?


He statistaclly had a very good and effficient season and deserves credit for that. Whether that means he was one of the top 15 players in the league this season is your own opinion. Don't be insulted into thinking otherwise.
trwi7 wrote:Ban yourself you asshole.
Ruzious
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 41,440
And1: 7,195
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#851 » by Ruzious » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:39 pm

Fotis St wrote:Who gives a damn about Season Stats anymore ?

Khris still does for sure, he wanted that 50/40/90

In case you didn't notice this Early Elimination has hurt all players and Coach value ...

Most of the people, consider us Pretenders , not Contenders after 2 times in row No1 seed not making the Finals and 2ndR Exit

PS The Moon is lighted by the Sun. It helps our climate but it is NOT a star

Truth be told, the Moon is just a glorified role player.
"Look, you never know when you may need to borrow a cup of sugar, maybe some milk or a handgun" - Dan C. from Texas
User avatar
giannis and 1
Junior
Posts: 320
And1: 149
Joined: Jan 06, 2019
Location: surrounded by craptor fans in Vancouver, BC
       

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#852 » by giannis and 1 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:28 pm

DavidDunn21 wrote:
giannis and 1 wrote:
DavidDunn21 wrote:I have a weird obsessive compulsion with seeing the Bucks win a title/get to a Finals. Everyone here understood way before Giannis what low odds were involved with that. The market size, the player empowerment era, the incompetence, the whispers of "segregation", the places that The Decision took the league, etc. It was less than 50/50 that we'd even still be in Milwaukee.

This board was here way before me filled with smart guys who loved basketball and just wanted to see the Bucks compete and be in the mix. A lot of those guys are older than me and at the very least saw the folly of giving contracts to guys who were head-cases or one-year wonders or washed-up big names or good stats/bad teams guys. You know the names.

And then miracle of miracles we stumble into a million to one shot. A dominant big/wing who we draft who just keeps getting better and better. Somehow this guy also says all the right things, isn't corrupted by AAU culture, is small-town humble but with aggressive competitive swagger on the court, a good teammate, handsome, the FULL PACKAGE. Perhaps most importantly for us as tortured Bucks fans, this kid is pathologically loyal.

This was the hard part. This was the impossible piece. Finding the second star in a league full of good players has been our mission since 2016 or so. And Bucks Twitter and RealGM and everywhere else looked at a lazy unathletic 2nd Round pick who is one of the least competitive, most front-running players I've ever seen in my life and shrugged and said: "Good enough. Let's overpay this guy"

Frankly, I will never get over this. But I'm very happy for many of you who have a weird obsessive compulsion with calling Khris Middleton "underrated" or even "good" because now you get to spend the offseason talking about how he got screwed out of 3rd Team All NBA and was so close to 50/40/90. You even get to yadayadayada the bubble and say stuff like: "Really Middleton was our best player against the Heat!"

He's just not that good. He's just not that good. He's just not that good.

And now we've ruined our one in a million shot. That's why I was obsessed with this.

You can argue that Middleton is not a 2nd option on a championship team and you can argue that he has a bad contract. But calling him lazy and not competitive is ridiculous. I'm sorry but that's the truth.
Oh really?

What evidence do you have?

I've got every 4th Quarter and him getting benched for not playing hard and him admitting he didn't shoot for three months and his overall physique and DOZENS OF BIG GAMES IN THE REGULAR SEASON AND PLAYOFFS. I've got statistical, anecdotal, quotes from his own mouth and eye test.

Show your cards sir. I call.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using RealGM mobile app

Benched for not playing hard? Show me proof of this. Him not shooting for months has a million better explanations than him being lazy. If he was lazy, why would he not SHOOT out of all things? That's like one of the easiest things to do no the floor. "Too lazy to shoot" is an amazing take.

Dozens of big games in the playoffs... you mean when he hits those clutch shots against the Bulls in 2015 or the Celtics in 2018 or the Heat this year.
still learning the game
User avatar
giannis and 1
Junior
Posts: 320
And1: 149
Joined: Jan 06, 2019
Location: surrounded by craptor fans in Vancouver, BC
       

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#853 » by giannis and 1 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:41 pm

The primary problems with our team are not Giannis or Middleton. The #1 problem is the coaching in the playoffs the last 2 years and the #2 problem is Eric Bledsoe.
still learning the game
User avatar
paulpressey25
Senior Mod - Bucks
Senior Mod - Bucks
Posts: 56,105
And1: 15,704
Joined: Oct 27, 2002
     

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#854 » by paulpressey25 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:00 pm

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
other than maybe not drafting embiid or sabonis there are no difference makers in any of those drafts.


No, you're missing the point. We would have accumulated talent. Talent that could be used by us, used in a trade or used to save salary.

And if we had the guts in October of 2016 to take the Celtics up on it, either Jaylen Brown or the Tatum pick was coming back our way for Jabari.
In depth discussions here - shorter stuff on Twitter

https://twitter.com/paulpressey25
User avatar
coolhandluke121
RealGM
Posts: 10,090
And1: 3,838
Joined: Sep 23, 2007

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#855 » by coolhandluke121 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:08 pm

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
coolhandluke121 wrote:Honestly the biggest issue is probably one spectacularly awful personnel move after another during the Kidd era. You can easily - easily - compensate for the deficiencies of Giannis, Khris, and Bud if you get literally anything worth more than a pile of feces for the #2 pick, the #10 and #17 pick, the picks you gave away for Greivis frickin' Vasquez, and the salary slots you invested in Mirza, Monroe, Dellavedova, Henson, and Miles FOR THE LOVE OF GOD $52 MILLION DOLLARS Plumlee.

Yeah, there's clearly room for improvement for everyone else involved, but they've gotten a lot of solid contributions out of all of them despite their flaws. Just look at the fail rate of all those other moves and consider that they could have gotten assets that would be valuable now for nearly all of those things with even an average front office.


other than maybe not drafting embiid or sabonis there are no difference makers in any of those drafts. i mean look at the actual boards and who was taken 10 picks after each one. who would actually even be getting time on this team on those lists. it wasnt so much that we whiffed we just didnt hit it out of the park.


It's not about who they drafted about #2, it's about all the chances to cash in on the asset that they squandered. And I would remind me that tons of people wanted Sabonis instead of Thon, but I'm sure that's why PP quoted me - I just haven't read the next page of this thread yet.
Wut we've got here is... faaailure... to communakate.
User avatar
coolhandluke121
RealGM
Posts: 10,090
And1: 3,838
Joined: Sep 23, 2007

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#856 » by coolhandluke121 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:18 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
You just can't botch four straight draft years. Add in tying up your salary cap with the Henson extension, Monroe and Plumlee deals.


Sabonis is the glaring draft mistake because they clearly needed a big with some outside game to complement Giannis. Jabari was not the wrong pick; the mistake was keeping him, as all the red flags were there from day 1.

Even so, I can sort of understand someone saying the draft is tough and you have to expect some failure. However, the contracts are actually the thing that infuriated me the most (besides keeping Jabari). Mirza, Henson, Miles Plumlee, Dellavedova, and Snell were all paid more than double what they were worth, if not more, and that's a lot of missed opportunities to use salary slots to get assets. It's the fact that they should have known those were terrible contracts from the jump that frustrates me.
Wut we've got here is... faaailure... to communakate.
GHOSTofSIKMA
RealGM
Posts: 17,247
And1: 4,437
Joined: Jan 21, 2007
Location: NC
     

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#857 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:36 pm

i agree sabonis was the mistake. but hes not a fit. and whatever asset he wouId be wouidnt fix what were missing. weve made a Ioad of moves to compensate that pick. were stiII far short besides having a Ioaded veteran reguIar season juggernaut. why this team faiIs is simpIe. our superstar and 2 time mvp is not a cIoser. he doesnt sniff the roIe
User avatar
Baddy Chuck
RealGM
Posts: 45,852
And1: 16,509
Joined: Apr 18, 2006
Location: And Brogdon.
 

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#858 » by Baddy Chuck » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:38 pm

Completely forgotten is just how nice of a man John Hammond was.
John Henson wrote:This lady just asked me who I play for and I said the Milwaukee Bucks, she quickly replied “oh the highschool across the street?”
GHOSTofSIKMA
RealGM
Posts: 17,247
And1: 4,437
Joined: Jan 21, 2007
Location: NC
     

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#859 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:39 pm

Fotis St wrote:According to stats we are the best team in the NBA ... in reality the Miami Heat the 11th best Team almost swept us
their key end of game baIIhandIers have nerve and can hit shots and make the right pass. dragic and butIer are baIIer. they are cIosers. their system suits them. our end of game guy who takes the baII on his own is stiII figuring it out and our system is dependent on him and wiII faiI untiI he does
DingleJerry
General Manager
Posts: 9,038
And1: 3,800
Joined: Jul 09, 2015
       

Re: All Star Khris Middleton Thread 

Post#860 » by DingleJerry » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:49 pm

Well, remember Sabonis was a key piece to bringing Paul George to OKC. But yes, he's not a good shooter so doesn't fit Giannis well. I actually thought he'd improved on that the last couple years but I just double checked and he hasn't.

Still, you have to hit on the picks at a much higher clip than they have. Even if they don't end up fitting perfectly it's assets to make moves. Bucks have had basically nothing to trade in several years (basically since missing the Jabari window).
Resident Lillard truther since 2015.

Return to Milwaukee Bucks