Khris Middleton Thread

Post #901 » by **ReasonablySober** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:29 pm

wHy iSn'T kHrIs dUnKiNg On DuDes??? it's because he's shooting jumpers at a historically great rate, dummy.

yannisk · Post #902 » by **yannisk** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:30 pm

Middleton has started the season great, a level up from his already good last season performance. But it;s just two games, we have to see this for a bigger sample before we say that he took a leap. Last playoffs were just 3 months ago, it's difficult to have massive improvements in that time.The same is true for DDV's shooting

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #903 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:37 pm

the real question isnt whether khris is good enough to win as a #2..... the real question is can we win with him as our #1. thats what it boils down too. of course hes good enough as a #2. thats literally like duh.

and as far as winning in the playoffs its whether giannis and the system can change to where khris and to some extent even jrue are able to play to their strentghs and bring that out of giannis as well. the whole team has **** the bed the last two years. its not about individuals except maybe that they are being placed in situations that dont play to their strengths

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #904 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:40 pm

yannisk wrote:Middleton has started the season great, a level up from his already good last season performance. But it;s just two games, we have to see this for a bigger sample before we say that he took a leap. Last playoffs were just 3 months ago, it's difficult to have massive improvements in that time.The same is true for DDV's shooting

for good shooters.....shooting is good looks, confidence and sample size. thats all it is. khris has always been lights out and i think we'll see better numbers from ddv now "just because" thats always what was going to happen as the sample grew beyond being a rookie coming off the bench

yannisk · Post #905 » by **yannisk** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:48 pm

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:the real question is can we win with him as our #1.

if that is the questions the answer is a clear no. I will go a step further

Jordan has not won without a number two better than Khris
Magic neither
Bird neither
Jabbar neither
Lebron neither
Shaq neither
etc

and Giannis is not as good as any of these players

Siefer · Post #906 » by **Siefer** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:03 pm

I've gone from annoyed, to bewildered, to exhausted, to amused, and now just intrigued by DD's obstinance. It's kind of reminds me of an anti-comedy bit, where they loop the absurdity until the audience breaks.

Post #907 » by **Prez** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:08 pm

thonnisbeastley wrote:The Middleton ball lickers are hilarious. He's always been a good player, but some of you have thought he's a top 15 player for the last few seasons. He wasn't. He had an incredibly efficient season last year (because of the space Giannis provided him) and earned his all-star spot. The season prior, he wasn't deserving and earned it off the back of Giannis. He didn't deserve that contract. That being said, he looked like a completely different player against the Warriors than we've seen throughout his career. When has Middleton ever attacked the rim or blown past defenders? Never. Being in shape to start the season clearly makes a huge difference in his game, as this is only the 2nd time that has happened. I hope he can sustain this level of play and live up to his contract...but we're two games in. And he'll have to not suck in the playoffs for once to get us over the hump and make me a true believer. Though I am extremely impressed thus far.

In over 1,600 minutes with Giannis on the bench the past two seasons Khris is averaging 29/8/5 on 59% TS per 36. If anything his production skyrockets without Giannis next to him and his efficiency stays great.

Post #908 » by **ReasonablySober** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:11 pm

Prez wrote:
thonnisbeastley wrote:The Middleton ball lickers are hilarious. He's always been a good player, but some of you have thought he's a top 15 player for the last few seasons. He wasn't. He had an incredibly efficient season last year (because of the space Giannis provided him) and earned his all-star spot. The season prior, he wasn't deserving and earned it off the back of Giannis. He didn't deserve that contract. That being said, he looked like a completely different player against the Warriors than we've seen throughout his career. When has Middleton ever attacked the rim or blown past defenders? Never. Being in shape to start the season clearly makes a huge difference in his game, as this is only the 2nd time that has happened. I hope he can sustain this level of play and live up to his contract...but we're two games in. And he'll have to not suck in the playoffs for once to get us over the hump and make me a true believer. Though I am extremely impressed thus far.

In over 1,600 minutes with Giannis on the bench the past two seasons Khris is averaging 29/8/5 on 59% TS per 36. If anything his production skyrockets without Giannis next to him and his efficiency stays great.

Hey man, don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

blazza18 · Post #909 » by **blazza18** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:29 pm

Prez wrote:In over 1,600 minutes with Giannis on the bench the past two seasons Khris is averaging 29/8/5 on 59% TS per 36. If anything his production skyrockets without Giannis next to him and his efficiency stays great.

Genuinely curious how differently he's defended without Giannis? He shouldn't be more open. Does he just have the ability to make even harder shots?

I don't really think over the long run he can carry a top 10 offense because he's a jump shooter rather than a scorer but given that he can still be efficient by himself why can't we at least try to run more offense through him when both are on the court?

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #910 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:42 pm

yannisk wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:the real question is can we win with him as our #1.

if that is the questions the answer is a clear no. I will go a step further

Jordan has not won without a number two better than Khris
Magic neither
Bird neither
Jabbar neither
Lebron neither
Shaq neither
etc

and Giannis is not as good as any of these players

i was talking it as it relates to player evaluation of khris. not necessarily as it relates to us. anywhere but a true championship contender hes a #1 kind of the way george or any other guy youd think of like that. a ...."get you to a playoffs and win a series kind of guy".

jordan had pippen
lebron won with kyrie and wade
bird had maxwell and parish in the first one and then mchale in the last two
kareem had magic and vice versa
shaq had wade and kobe

im not sure what that proves or doesnt prove exactly? why leave out all the other championship squads and "recipes"?

i dont think "the recipe" for titles is this 1-2 thing. i dont even buy into it. maybe its easier that way but theres a gob of teams that won with a khris middleton and a jrue holiday recipe as well. some didnt even have a giannis level #1. pierce in boston with garnett and ray were about as close an example you could find recently of a team constructed the way we are. the spurs, toronto, detroit, the mavs, first version of the warriors... the list goes on and on recently and especially since the advent of advanced stats and 3ball.

theres all sorts of ways to win. that wasnt even really my point

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #911 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:48 pm

Prez wrote:
thonnisbeastley wrote:The Middleton ball lickers are hilarious. He's always been a good player, but some of you have thought he's a top 15 player for the last few seasons. He wasn't. He had an incredibly efficient season last year (because of the space Giannis provided him) and earned his all-star spot. The season prior, he wasn't deserving and earned it off the back of Giannis. He didn't deserve that contract. That being said, he looked like a completely different player against the Warriors than we've seen throughout his career. When has Middleton ever attacked the rim or blown past defenders? Never. Being in shape to start the season clearly makes a huge difference in his game, as this is only the 2nd time that has happened. I hope he can sustain this level of play and live up to his contract...but we're two games in. And he'll have to not suck in the playoffs for once to get us over the hump and make me a true believer. Though I am extremely impressed thus far.

In over 1,600 minutes with Giannis on the bench the past two seasons Khris is averaging 29/8/5 on 59% TS per 36. If anything his production skyrockets without Giannis next to him and his efficiency stays great.

yep... and better yet look at the team ratings when giannis is off the floor and hes running #1

the guy is a #1. not a championship level #1 obviously but the idea hes not good enough for #2 just doesnt even make sense to me unless you think hes a bad fit or theres this unique flaw to his game that makes elite production and two way ability no good in his case

Post #912 » by **Prez** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:50 pm

blazza18 wrote:
Prez wrote:In over 1,600 minutes with Giannis on the bench the past two seasons Khris is averaging 29/8/5 on 59% TS per 36. If anything his production skyrockets without Giannis next to him and his efficiency stays great.

Genuinely curious how differently he's defended without Giannis? He shouldn't be more open. Does he just have the ability to make even harder shots?

I don't really think over the long run he can carry a top 10 offense because he's a jump shooter rather than a scorer but given that he can still be efficient by himself why can't we at least try to run more offense through him when both are on the court?

Like 1/3 coaching, 1/3 Khris needing to be more confident and assertive (took a leap in this regard last year, another one this year), and 1/3 Giannis ceding control and getting better at and more willing to play off the ball, in the flow of the offense and do more work as a screen setter & rim roller.

On the scale of play maker to play finisher where LeBron and AD are the superstar extremes of each, Giannis' needs to be tilted much closer to AD than LeBron. Khris wasn't good enough in the past to be the lead half court initiator but the duo of him and Jrue likely will be.

DavidDunn21 · Post #913 » by **DavidDunn21** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:04 pm

Prez wrote:
thonnisbeastley wrote:The Middleton ball lickers are hilarious. He's always been a good player, but some of you have thought he's a top 15 player for the last few seasons. He wasn't. He had an incredibly efficient season last year (because of the space Giannis provided him) and earned his all-star spot. The season prior, he wasn't deserving and earned it off the back of Giannis. He didn't deserve that contract. That being said, he looked like a completely different player against the Warriors than we've seen throughout his career. When has Middleton ever attacked the rim or blown past defenders? Never. Being in shape to start the season clearly makes a huge difference in his game, as this is only the 2nd time that has happened. I hope he can sustain this level of play and live up to his contract...but we're two games in. And he'll have to not suck in the playoffs for once to get us over the hump and make me a true believer. Though I am extremely impressed thus far.

In over 1,600 minutes with Giannis on the bench the past two seasons Khris is averaging 29/8/5 on 59% TS per 36. If anything his production skyrockets without Giannis next to him and his efficiency stays great.

We all remember what games Giannis has sat out the last two seasons.

We're gonna do this all over again this year, huh? Numbers without context are meaningless. I don't know what is so hard about understanding that the guy who hit 75% of his 3s against the Warriors and the guy who had 2 points against the Magic ARE THE SAME GUY. He's not divorced from any of our shortcomings. But by all means, let's have fun. Groundhog Day

Post #914 » by **Prez** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:20 pm

DavidDunn21 wrote:
Prez wrote:
thonnisbeastley wrote:The Middleton ball lickers are hilarious. He's always been a good player, but some of you have thought he's a top 15 player for the last few seasons. He wasn't. He had an incredibly efficient season last year (because of the space Giannis provided him) and earned his all-star spot. The season prior, he wasn't deserving and earned it off the back of Giannis. He didn't deserve that contract. That being said, he looked like a completely different player against the Warriors than we've seen throughout his career. When has Middleton ever attacked the rim or blown past defenders? Never. Being in shape to start the season clearly makes a huge difference in his game, as this is only the 2nd time that has happened. I hope he can sustain this level of play and live up to his contract...but we're two games in. And he'll have to not suck in the playoffs for once to get us over the hump and make me a true believer. Though I am extremely impressed thus far.

In over 1,600 minutes with Giannis on the bench the past two seasons Khris is averaging 29/8/5 on 59% TS per 36. If anything his production skyrockets without Giannis next to him and his efficiency stays great.

We all remember what games Giannis has sat out the last two seasons.

We're gonna do this all over again this year, huh? Numbers without context are meaningless. I don't know what is so hard about understanding that the guy who hit 75% of his 3s against the Warriors and the guy who had 2 points against the Magic ARE THE SAME GUY. He's not divorced from any of our shortcomings. But by all means, let's have fun. Groundhog Day

You understand this is a 1,600 minute sample not just limited to the games Giannis sat out, right? What context would you like for a massive sample size of Khris' play with Giannis on the bench?

All that other stuff is just a bunch of noise, nobody here is absolving Khris of blame from some of our continued postseason exits or claiming he's a perfect player. Just you babbling on because the awesome player you irrationally hate continues to be awesome and it upsets you.

DavidDunn21 · Post #915 » by **DavidDunn21** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:41 pm

Prez wrote:
DavidDunn21 wrote:
Prez wrote:In over 1,600 minutes with Giannis on the bench the past two seasons Khris is averaging 29/8/5 on 59% TS per 36. If anything his production skyrockets without Giannis next to him and his efficiency stays great.

We all remember what games Giannis has sat out the last two seasons.

We're gonna do this all over again this year, huh? Numbers without context are meaningless. I don't know what is so hard about understanding that the guy who hit 75% of his 3s against the Warriors and the guy who had 2 points against the Magic ARE THE SAME GUY. He's not divorced from any of our shortcomings. But by all means, let's have fun. Groundhog Day

You understand this is a 1,600 minute sample not just limited to the games Giannis sat out, right? What context would you like for a massive sample size of Khris' play with Giannis on the bench?

All that other stuff is just a bunch of noise, nobody here is absolving Khris of blame from some of our continued postseason exits or claiming he's a perfect player. Just you babbling on because the awesome player you irrationally hate continues to be awesome and it upsets you.

No I misread that part. Point stands though. And everyone knows it just no one wants to say.

I am completely rational. Your defense of him is irrational. If you were being honest, you'd say "I know he's not gonna shoot 45% from 3 but I think Jrue can help focus him and maybe he can actually even be good in high leverage moments and give us a shot at a title."

Because that's what I've been saying.

Instead, you say "awesome player continues to be awesome" and say that I'm babbling. Okay. Maybe you'd like to explain how his limited game will translate in the playoffs in a way better than I described. That's actually what this board was for, I thought.

Post #916 » by **Prez** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:48 pm

DavidDunn21 wrote:
Prez wrote:
DavidDunn21 wrote:We all remember what games Giannis has sat out the last two seasons.

We're gonna do this all over again this year, huh? Numbers without context are meaningless. I don't know what is so hard about understanding that the guy who hit 75% of his 3s against the Warriors and the guy who had 2 points against the Magic ARE THE SAME GUY. He's not divorced from any of our shortcomings. But by all means, let's have fun. Groundhog Day

You understand this is a 1,600 minute sample not just limited to the games Giannis sat out, right? What context would you like for a massive sample size of Khris' play with Giannis on the bench?

All that other stuff is just a bunch of noise, nobody here is absolving Khris of blame from some of our continued postseason exits or claiming he's a perfect player. Just you babbling on because the awesome player you irrationally hate continues to be awesome and it upsets you.

No I misread that part. Point stands though. And everyone knows it just no one wants to say.

I am completely rational. Your defense of him is irrational. If you were being honest, you'd say "I know he's not gonna shoot 45% from 3 but I think Jrue can help focus him and maybe he can actually even be good in high leverage moments and give us a shot at a title."

Because that's what I've been saying.

Instead, you say "awesome player continues to be awesome" and say that I'm babbling. Okay. Maybe you'd like to explain how his limited game will translate in the playoffs in a way better than I described. That's actually what this board was for, I thought.

My defense of him is irrational? I posted one stat responding to a claim someone else made. :lol:

Not really interested in discussing Khris with you at all actually, responded because you replied to me but I'll leave it at that. You do you.

thonnisbeastley · Post #917 » by **thonnisbeastley** » Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:04 am

Prez wrote:
DavidDunn21 wrote:
Prez wrote:In over 1,600 minutes with Giannis on the bench the past two seasons Khris is averaging 29/8/5 on 59% TS per 36. If anything his production skyrockets without Giannis next to him and his efficiency stays great.

We all remember what games Giannis has sat out the last two seasons.

We're gonna do this all over again this year, huh? Numbers without context are meaningless. I don't know what is so hard about understanding that the guy who hit 75% of his 3s against the Warriors and the guy who had 2 points against the Magic ARE THE SAME GUY. He's not divorced from any of our shortcomings. But by all means, let's have fun. Groundhog Day

You understand this is a 1,600 minute sample not just limited to the games Giannis sat out, right? What context would you like for a massive sample size of Khris' play with Giannis on the bench?

All that other stuff is just a bunch of noise, nobody here is absolving Khris of blame from some of our continued postseason exits or claiming he's a perfect player. Just you babbling on because the awesome player you irrationally hate continues to be awesome and it upsets you.

"Khris' per 36 numbers vs. opponents bench for 10 mpg when Giannis is resting proves that he is true alpha of team"

Khris is a great player. But until last season, the first time he's been in shape to start the season, he was never more than a low end #2 or #3 on a title contending team. He had a great season, but to claim that Giannis doesn't open up space for him due to the fact that Khris is almost as efficient after substitutions have been made is a poor argument. Khris had a TS of 62%, if it's 59% with Giannis on the bench then it must be around 64% with him on the floor.

He looked like a completely different player during these first two games, which everyone should be excited for. But for some to claim he's a #1 all of a sudden or has always been a strong #2/1b is ludicrous. If he keeps this up for an entire season, proving last year wasn't just a fluke of efficiency, then hell yeah...If he plays a big part in winning us a playoff series for the first time, then hell yeah...if he's suddenly playing like Ray Allen in his prime, then hell yeah...I will remain optimistic but I won't all of a sudden ignore the last 5 years/multiple poor playoff performances.

Post #918 » by **Prez** » Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:22 am

thonnisbeastley wrote:"Khris' per 36 numbers vs. opponents bench for 10 mpg when Giannis is resting proves that he is true alpha of team"

Khris is a great player. But until last season, the first time he's been in shape to start the season, he was never more than a low end #2 or #3 on a title contending team. He had a great season, but to claim that Giannis doesn't open up space for him due to the fact that Khris is almost as efficient after substitutions have been made is a poor argument. Khris had a TS of 62%, if it's 59% with Giannis on the bench then it must be around 64% with him on the floor.

He looked like a completely different player during these first two games, which everyone should be excited for. But for some to claim he's a #1 all of a sudden or has always been a strong #2/1b is ludicrous. If he keeps this up for an entire season, proving last year wasn't just a fluke of efficiency, then hell yeah...If he plays a big part in winning us a playoff series for the first time, then hell yeah...if he's suddenly playing like Ray Allen in his prime, then hell yeah...I will remain optimistic but I won't all of a sudden ignore the last 5 years/multiple poor playoff performances.

Never said Giannis *doesn't* open up space for him or that he's some true alpha, that is all just strawmanning. You said he had an incredibly efficient season because of the space Giannis provided him, so I pulled up the numbers pointing out that Khris' efficiency is still great without Giannis and his production approaches elite level.

I don't even know where else we disagree here, considering you seem to agree he was awesome last year and really just want to see more.

SirChurros · Post #919 » by **SirChurros** » Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:47 am

I'm often embarrassed to be a fan of this team, but I'm often even more embarrassed to be a fan of this team when reading idiotic takes like some of the ones in this thread.

The last two postseasons Khris has averaged 20 ppg, 6 rpg and 4.6 apg with a TS of 58%. Get the **** out of here with this "Khris disappears in the playoffs" garbage.

coolhandluke121 · Post #920 » by **coolhandluke121** » Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:13 am

Krispy Kreme wrote:I'm often embarrassed to be a fan of this team, but I'm often even more embarrassed to be a fan of this team when reading idiotic takes like some of the ones in this thread.

The last two postseasons Khris has averaged 20 ppg, 6 rpg and 4.6 apg with a TS of 58%. Get the **** out of here with this "Khris disappears in the playoffs" garbage.

Pfffft, gtfo, those weren't the real playoffs. I see you've been duped by some of those "fake playoffs" that have been making the rounds on the internet.