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Trade everyone for Doncic

Magic Giannison wrote:

Chad34 wrote:giannis is probably gone?

THere is no way he stays in a team with the oldest age with players that can barely breathe and having Hill,Korver,Ersan and whoever random is on the bench. Also a coach that is incompetent as ****.

We should trade him while we can hoping to get something and stop ruining his career.

At this point , I think we can agree that the Bucks Org failed to be at the same page. Giannis feels betrayed by his own team and I am not talking about the money, I am talking about the personnel that he was surround with. They were all just marketing Giannis and didn't actually hear Giannis saying that he wants to win a Ring. Man, it SUCKS our stupid contracts and moves, doesn't allow us to trade for a superstar, we don't have the assets to do so (even if we had the balls to ever pickup the damn GM phone), its too late. Giannis feels betrayed and having him on a team that is not a competing for a championship, is a waste of time and asset. I LOVE the Bucks fans, I hate the Org's personnel, the top level personnel is absolutely trash when you want to be a Championship Team.

Cythaps wrote:We couldn't even get an above average 3 point shooting team around him or someone that can pass him the ball in motion. Hell, we couldn't even manage to get the spacing to half decent.

Isn’t Middleton, Hill, Korver, Brook and Williams (at least he was for several seasons before joining the Bucks) all top 3pt shooters in the NBA?

3-5 really good 3pt shooters is about the same or better than what most teams in the league have. Bucks have that.

WhatTheBuck wrote:Interestingly, I think Giannis stays now.

He can't even blame his team for this, they more or less turned up and did what they were expected to do.

He however, has crumbled under the weight of his own expectations.

I'll be surprised after this performance if he turns around and says he needs more help.

You can't be bricking every single jump shot for the series and then turn around and say you need help.

As for those saying this loss is on Bud, complete bull.

Yes, he could have done a better job, but the panic and lack of composure of our MVP has been the nails and the coffin of this playoff series.

I kind of agree but also disagree there. Miami were sending multiple guys on Giannis clearly willing to take the risk of leaving others open. Had the teammates been better would they be as willing though? Really think Bucks are missing Brogdon this series.

WhatTheBuck wrote:
Middleton has been his normal self if not better this series. We know what Middleton is.

Giannis however, has been the glaring underperformer. He needs to shoulder the blame for our underperformance.

The thing is, I don't even buy the fact that teams figure him out in the playoffs. To me it's all about him and his own mental immaturity. You can tell by his body language that he feels the weight of the world on him, but it's all in his own mind.

I agree absolutely, it is mental with Giannis. Take the FTs he always shoots worse in postseason because he gets stressed. The guy before the Toronto series has been good in the playoffs (comparable to the regular season). Toronto exposed some of his flaws but it is more mental than anything else, he plays a lot worse that he should play even with his limitations

Revived wrote:

Cythaps wrote:We couldn't even get an above average 3 point shooting team around him or someone that can pass him the ball in motion. Hell, we couldn't even manage to get the spacing to half decent.

Isn’t Middleton, Hill, Korver, Brook and Williams (at least he was for several seasons before joining the Bucks) all top 3pt shooters in the NBA?

3-5 really good 3pt shooters is about the same or better than what most teams in the league have. Bucks have that.

Our 3pt shooting % despite our dominating regular season was 18th out of 30 teams, and 12th out of the 16 playoff teams. This is hardly above average. But what's even worse, because of Giannis and defenses collapsing to guard him, we had the most wide open 3pt shot attempts in the regular season and we were 27th in %. I don't really know what more to say.

The thing that irritates me more with Bud-ball is how wasteful they are with possessions. You have guys like Giannis and Bled casually walking up the floor and throwing a 3 with 20 seconds on the clock. You had Henson with 6 3s per 36 and now Robin with 4. You have Brook who is a fine 3p shooter taking Steph Curry level shots, well he is not that good. Even Korver who is one of the greatest shooters takes shots that he should not take.

Instead of having a flow on offense to create good looks and then "let it fly" half of our 3p shots are garbage.

Darknemo2000 wrote:

WhatTheBuck wrote:Interestingly, I think Giannis stays now.

He can't even blame his team for this, they more or less turned up and did what they were expected to do.

He however, has crumbled under the weight of his own expectations.

I'll be surprised after this performance if he turns around and says he needs more help.

You can't be bricking every single jump shot for the series and then turn around and say you need help.

As for those saying this loss is on Bud, complete bull.

Yes, he could have done a better job, but the panic and lack of composure of our MVP has been the nails and the coffin of this playoff series.

I kind of agree but also disagree there. Miami were sending multiple guys on Giannis clearly willing to take the risk of leaving others open. Had the teammates been better would they be as willing though? Really think Bucks are missing Brogdon this series.

For sure, better team mates would open the corridor a lot more for Giannis, but his shooting has been unacceptable this series. That's on him.

Cythaps wrote:

Revived wrote:

Cythaps wrote:We couldn't even get an above average 3 point shooting team around him or someone that can pass him the ball in motion. Hell, we couldn't even manage to get the spacing to half decent.

Isn’t Middleton, Hill, Korver, Brook and Williams (at least he was for several seasons before joining the Bucks) all top 3pt shooters in the NBA?

3-5 really good 3pt shooters is about the same or better than what most teams in the league have. Bucks have that.

Our 3pt shooting % despite our dominating regular season was 18th out of 30 teams, and 12th out of the 16 playoff teams. This is hardly above average. But what's even worse, because of Giannis and defenses collapsing to guard him, we had the most wide open 3pt shot attempts in the regular season and we were 27th in %. I don't really know what more to say.

To be fair (and I suspect the numbers still would be average at best), both our regular 3 point % and our wide open 3 point % are weighed down heavily by Giannis himself taking those shots. Giannis most likely took more wide open 3’s than anyone on the team.


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yannisk wrote:

WhatTheBuck wrote:
Middleton has been his normal self if not better this series. We know what Middleton is.

Giannis however, has been the glaring underperformer. He needs to shoulder the blame for our underperformance.

The thing is, I don't even buy the fact that teams figure him out in the playoffs. To me it's all about him and his own mental immaturity. You can tell by his body language that he feels the weight of the world on him, but it's all in his own mind.

I agree absolutely, it is mental with Giannis. Take the FTs he always shoots worse in postseason because he gets stressed. The guy before the Toronto series has been good in the playoffs (comparable to the regular season). Toronto exposed some of his flaws but it is more mental than anything else, he plays a lot worse that he should play even with his limitations

Yep, good point, free throws are a good indication of his nerves.

Heck, even the amount of missed lay-ups speaks to his mental fragility.

Of course, if Giannis gets a great running partner it would take a lot of pressure off him and his mental issues would be greatly reduced, but you expect a two time MVP to not beat himself before he steps onto the court, even if he does need to carry a misshapen lot.

Cythaps wrote:

Revived wrote:

Cythaps wrote:We couldn't even get an above average 3 point shooting team around him or someone that can pass him the ball in motion. Hell, we couldn't even manage to get the spacing to half decent.

Isn’t Middleton, Hill, Korver, Brook and Williams (at least he was for several seasons before joining the Bucks) all top 3pt shooters in the NBA?

3-5 really good 3pt shooters is about the same or better than what most teams in the league have. Bucks have that.

Our 3pt shooting % despite our dominating regular season was 18th out of 30 teams, and 12th out of the 16 playoff teams. This is hardly above average. But what's even worse, because of Giannis and defenses collapsing to guard him, we had the most wide open 3pt shot attempts in the regular season and we were 27th in %. I don't really know what more to say.

Having the most wide open three point attempts is not a good thing when the defense is begging you to take those shots. Giannis took the 3rd most wide open threes in the league and Brook was 5th. They shot 31.9%. What's wrong with that picture?

A couple if comments as a non Bucks/Heat fan.

The guy that stans Giannis and tries to argue that all players have flaws is way off. Yes all players have flaws but if your flaw as a superstar is that you cant score well in the postseason thats a deadly flaw. It means that you cant by the guy on the team. Its one thing trying to find a better Middleton or maybe better 3-10 players and its entirely different thing trying to get Kwahi Leonard to be your alpha.

I think Giannis needs to play the 5 next year, at least in the playoffs. Some pnrs, assuming you get a pnr ballhandler, some post ups and some easy baskets in the paint will go a long way to make his scoring more resilient. Right now the most discouraging thing is that the Heat are defending Giannis without compromising their defensive pisitioning much. They even put Crowder on him who is 4-5 inches shorter.

The coach is always to blame in the Nba, but Bud transformed this team from a fringe playoff team in a weak conference to the best regular season team in the league. People wanting radical adjustments are off imo. You dont change the system that made you dominant in the regular season everyt time you lose a game or two. Changing your main schemes us always a desperation move. Even if Bud has a bad series it happens with every coach because the coach can only go as far as his best player(s) can carry him. What has Spoelstra done since Lebron left? What did Stevens do last year? How is Nurse doing without Kawhi. If you best player plays bad you cant do much other that try to help him and hope he can play better.

The Bucks ate still the more talented team, but they need to be more physical and stop the Miami passing game. If you force them to create their shots you can beat them because they have limited offensive talent beyond chucking 3s.

I am not upset because I predicted this in January. This is my post from January:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1926567&start=680

Sigra wrote:I watched a lot of Bucks games last few weeks. I am really really concerned that our basketball is regular season basketball and not playoff basketball. Shoot as early as possible, if possible in fast break but if not then 3 pointer. That offense will not work in playoffs I am afraid. Defense is "protect paint and passing lines-let them shot 3s". That also work in regular season but may not work in playoffs.

I dont think we have good personal for slow/set defense playoff games. Nobody is going to bother to play that basketball in regular season but in playoffs team will play slow peace. They will slow it down. They will protect 3 point line better (nobody does that in regular season). And in slow peace/set defense playoff basketball we dont have talent one on one. Our main player can be stopped easy in playoff because he cant shoot. Look at our offense guys. Seriously. We attack:
1. fast breaks after good defense (let them shoot 3s defense that work so well for us)
2. early going inside (antetokoumpo or Blodsey) before defense is 100% set
3. As soon as someone can shoot 3s and there is a lot of opportunity for that because nobody defend 3s a lot in regular season.

Very very rare that we attack set defense one on one inside or anything. Some Middleton iso or Lopez iso but that is so rare.

We are great great regular season team. One of the best I ever saw. Our coach made incredible regular season system. But I am so scared it will not work in playoffs. Well, it will in 1st round and probably 2nd round too (because east is so bad) but then...

I am so sad when I think about that because I see so many happy people here now. and I can clearly see disappointment when we lose in playoffs.

And I talked about Giannis not being ready back in December:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1922505&start=80

Sigra wrote:Nope. Because they dont have superstar go to guy who will score at the end of close playoff game. Guy who can make outside shoot over hand or make free throws for sure at the end of game. Antetokoumbo is great inside guy. He is great at fast break and great at penetration and finishing inside. But in close playoff games inside is closed and you have to make jumpers. He is not confident in his jumper to be that guy. And if we go to him close in the game oponent can just send him to the line. He is bad FT shooter.

I cant remember NBA champion with main superstar/go to guy like that. Will just go with "modern" time since I watch NBA close:
Bulls-Jordan
Lakers-Kobe
Spurs-Ginobili
Pistons-Billups
Heat-Wade then Lebron
Celtics-Pierce
Mavs-Dirk
Warriors-Steph
Cavs-Lebron
Raptors-Lenard

All champions had at least one guy that could be hero in last minutes of close games. Not inside (because that is closed in that moments) but outside. Unfortunatly I dont see Guannis ready for that role this year. And all our other players are role players honestly. Hope I am wrong.

So I expected all of this and cant be upset because I knew it.

Cythaps wrote:

Revived wrote:

Cythaps wrote:We couldn't even get an above average 3 point shooting team around him or someone that can pass him the ball in motion. Hell, we couldn't even manage to get the spacing to half decent.

Isn’t Middleton, Hill, Korver, Brook and Williams (at least he was for several seasons before joining the Bucks) all top 3pt shooters in the NBA?

3-5 really good 3pt shooters is about the same or better than what most teams in the league have. Bucks have that.

Our 3pt shooting % despite our dominating regular season was 18th out of 30 teams, and 12th out of the 16 playoff teams. This is hardly above average. But what's even worse, because of Giannis and defenses collapsing to guard him, we had the most wide open 3pt shot attempts in the regular season and we were 27th in %. I don't really know what more to say.

And if you take out Giannis, RoLo and the other guys who aren't playing in the playoffs, it goes up to 37%, which puts them at 7th in the league. They are a very good shooting 3 pt team, especially the guys who are playing in this series, except for Giannis.

Worried that Giannis' atrocious shooting is just gonna convince him more that he needs to improve that part of his game. That time would be much better spent refining his ability as a roll-man and in the post.

So... eeww

The same problems that were apparent last year are still there. Bud is slow to make adjustments, Giannis still doesn't have any refined offensive skills for when being a try hard isn't good enough anymore, the team still lacks a secondary scoring threat that can get a bucket against anyone, and the defense is exploitable by well coached teams.

Also, the team is freaking old and half of them don't seem to want to be there.

Firing bud or trading Giannis aren't the moves to make but I really think they need to explore a shakeup in the offseason. I realize the bubble is weird but this is year two of the same limitations popping up.

Sigra wrote:I am not upset because I predicted this in January. This is my post from January:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1926567&start=680

Sigra wrote:I watched a lot of Bucks games last few weeks. I am really really concerned that our basketball is regular season basketball and not playoff basketball. Shoot as early as possible, if possible in fast break but if not then 3 pointer. That offense will not work in playoffs I am afraid. Defense is "protect paint and passing lines-let them shot 3s". That also work in regular season but may not work in playoffs.

I dont think we have good personal for slow/set defense playoff games. Nobody is going to bother to play that basketball in regular season but in playoffs team will play slow peace. They will slow it down. They will protect 3 point line better (nobody does that in regular season). And in slow peace/set defense playoff basketball we dont have talent one on one. Our main player can be stopped easy in playoff because he cant shoot. Look at our offense guys. Seriously. We attack:
1. fast breaks after good defense (let them shoot 3s defense that work so well for us)
2. early going inside (antetokoumpo or Blodsey) before defense is 100% set
3. As soon as someone can shoot 3s and there is a lot of opportunity for that because nobody defend 3s a lot in regular season.

Very very rare that we attack set defense one on one inside or anything. Some Middleton iso or Lopez iso but that is so rare.

We are great great regular season team. One of the best I ever saw. Our coach made incredible regular season system. But I am so scared it will not work in playoffs. Well, it will in 1st round and probably 2nd round too (because east is so bad) but then...

I am so sad when I think about that because I see so many happy people here now. and I can clearly see disappointment when we lose in playoffs.

And I talked about Giannis not being ready back in December:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1922505&start=80

Sigra wrote:Nope. Because they dont have superstar go to guy who will score at the end of close playoff game. Guy who can make outside shoot over hand or make free throws for sure at the end of game. Antetokoumbo is great inside guy. He is great at fast break and great at penetration and finishing inside. But in close playoff games inside is closed and you have to make jumpers. He is not confident in his jumper to be that guy. And if we go to him close in the game oponent can just send him to the line. He is bad FT shooter.

I cant remember NBA champion with main superstar/go to guy like that. Will just go with "modern" time since I watch NBA close:
Bulls-Jordan
Lakers-Kobe
Spurs-Ginobili
Pistons-Billups
Heat-Wade then Lebron
Celtics-Pierce
Mavs-Dirk
Warriors-Steph
Cavs-Lebron
Raptors-Lenard

All champions had at least one guy that could be hero in last minutes of close games. Not inside (because that is closed in that moments) but outside. Unfortunatly I dont see Guannis ready for that role this year. And all our other players are role players honestly. Hope I am wrong.

So I expected all of this and cant be upset because I knew it.

Yeah, I'm still mad

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Im not ready to attribute our lack of PnR success to any roster deficiency in ball-handlers. Bled, Hill, and Mids could be sufficiently effective imo. Even DDV seems like someone who could develop in that area.

That problem falls on coaching. We simply don't run those sets. I will say that I dont know any big who we could use as a roll-man outside of Giannis, and hes a bad screen-setter. But acquiring a ball-handler(s) means nothing if coaches dont implement that as part of the offensive strategy.