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PG Miami - This Buds For You

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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#461 » by TD75 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:00 pm

Revived wrote:
Cythaps wrote:We couldn't even get an above average 3 point shooting team around him or someone that can pass him the ball in motion. Hell, we couldn't even manage to get the spacing to half decent.

Isn’t Middleton, Hill, Korver, Brook and Williams (at least he was for several seasons before joining the Bucks) all top 3pt shooters in the NBA?

3-5 really good 3pt shooters is about the same or better than what most teams in the league have. Bucks have that.

Brook is a liability in high PnR and whenever he has to guard anyone that is mobile.
Hill is a liability in defense
Korver is a liability in defense and not able to run through screens for more than 18 minutes.
Williams plays like someone who has no clue of his role (maybe not his fault) and is horrible in defense close to the post.

Khris is fine.

The playoffs are not the 3 point shot contest. They are not about just shooting jumpers stationary and with no contest. This is ridiculous to insinuate that you would take for example Hill over Dragic this series just because Hill has a better 3 point shot percentage overall.

This is exactly the reason people are delusional when they claim that the Bucks have built a very good shooting team around Giannis. The proof is out there. There is no wall against Giannis if he has around him elite shooters. Teams are STILL choosing to let Bucks players open at the three point line and build a wall around Giannis.

Half of his time (if not more) Giannis is playing with Bledsoe ffs. Where do you think the one guarding Bledsoe places himself when Giannis has the ball?

Giannis needs 4 very good to elite 3 point shooters around him EVERY time if possible (that also play good to very good defense so that they are actually contributing positively while on the floor). You can't have that if your team only has 2-3 at best.

From the Bucks roster, there are only two players I could see playing with Giannis just fine without any concerns: Khris and Wes Matthews (one of the better acquisitions of the Bucks in years).
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote: wtf is a "fit" with Giannis. hes an amazing talent but he is being over utilized offensively and too many other guys are taking flak for our failures on that end.
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#462 » by Cythaps » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:06 pm

KidA24 wrote:
Cythaps wrote:
Revived wrote:Isn’t Middleton, Hill, Korver, Brook and Williams (at least he was for several seasons before joining the Bucks) all top 3pt shooters in the NBA?

3-5 really good 3pt shooters is about the same or better than what most teams in the league have. Bucks have that.


Our 3pt shooting % despite our dominating regular season was 18th out of 30 teams, and 12th out of the 16 playoff teams. This is hardly above average. But what's even worse, because of Giannis and defenses collapsing to guard him, we had the most wide open 3pt shot attempts in the regular season and we were 27th in %. I don't really know what more to say.


And if you take out Giannis, RoLo and the other guys who aren't playing in the playoffs, it goes up to 37%, which puts them at 7th in the league. They are a very good shooting 3 pt team, especially the guys who are playing in this series, except for Giannis.


Even if you do that and take Giannis, Rolo and the others that havent played in the playoffs out, and even without taking out all other teams' crappy regular season players that don't play in the playoffs, we're still 11th out of 16 on open 3pts among playoff teams.
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#463 » by truly » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:09 pm

Bucksfan28 wrote:Im not ready to attribute our lack of PnR success to any roster deficiency in ball-handlers. Bled, Hill, and Mids could be sufficiently effective imo. Even DDV seems like someone who could develop in that area.

That problem falls on coaching. We simply don't run those sets. I will say that I dont know any big who we could use as a roll-man outside of Giannis, and hes a bad screen-setter. But acquiring a ball-handler(s) means nothing if coaches dont implement that as part of the offensive strategy.


Look at this.The more you look at it the worse Bud looks.Having Giannis catch the ball at the top of the key time after time plays right into their hands.Yesterday when he caught the ball in the free throw line he scored because they can't keep him away from the basket.Don't even mention the lack of cutting behind the "wall".DDV did once last night and that was definitely not because Bud told him to.We are getting swept and most of the blame belongs to Bud for this.


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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#464 » by TD75 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:22 pm

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Here is another masterpiece of the "spacing"
What a joke. Absolutely ridiculous.
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote: wtf is a "fit" with Giannis. hes an amazing talent but he is being over utilized offensively and too many other guys are taking flak for our failures on that end.
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#465 » by talbert » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:25 pm

Cythaps wrote:
talbert wrote:I agree, dude, No way you trade him! You figure out a better way to fix his jump shot. He needs to be reasonable though, and accept the holes in his game are the reason we're losing, not that he doesn't have the right teammates.


I really can't believe what I'm reading. So you think that if Giannis was playing with the Miami roster and coaching he wouldn't be winning because of the holes in his game? Really now? Have you really seen our offense? Have you ever seen a worse, more uninspired, more stagnant offense in any playoff team? Even Orlando ran a better offense than us.

Like many people said, Giannis has flaws, but what he can give both in defense and offense is unique if you take advantage of it. We simply cannot do it. We couldn't even get an above average 3 point shooting team around him or someone that can pass him the ball in motion. Hell, we couldn't even manage to get the spacing to half decent.

Listen, there's plenty of blame to go around. The team is not constructed perfectly and I agree that someone needs to make a shot, but this team as constructed should be able to beat the Heat and they would be being the Head if it wasn't so easy to shut Giannis down.
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#466 » by fan230 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:26 pm

wco81 wrote:According to Spotrac, Bucks only have 5 players signed for 2021-22, at $81 million total.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/milwaukee-bucks/yearly/cap/

Of course as soon as they sign Giannis to a super max, they will be right up at $125 million with his deal and then however more million to fill up the roster.

So in the summer of 2021, you have all these free agents and superstars with player options:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2021/

Most of the big names with PO are likely to re-sign with their teams for more money or opt in.

So are there other players who could help the Bucks? They sign some name free agents then Giannis signs last but that means their salary cap goes up to around $150 million or more.

Probably not financially viable, even without the pandemic.

But if Giannis comes to believe he needs at least another star to play with him, Bucks may have no choice but to promise to add more talent.



I don’t see what is wrong if Giannis wants more talent? Even Lebron needed two major talents to win with rhe Heat. He waited hoping Lakers would get the second superstar in Davis.

Bucks tried the sustem approach of Bud. It failed this year more dramatically than even last year.
No 1 reason: teams wall up Giannis and the others cannot shoot to compensate.

So we either pay heavy to get a superstar like the Lakers did. Pay luxury tax or trade away a bunch of good players or both.

Or not get a superstar but try and scour everyplace for good sharpshooters—- a bunch of them. The best starting point maybe to look in the areas of Serbia, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro from where the League increasingly has been getting consistently good outside shooters some of whom
are also good inside scorers. Local players should obviously also be searched for but they should not be an established player like say McCollum CJ for whom we have to trade Midds and net gain is probably zero. We need to look for local undrafted players who are v good outside shooters.

Without one of these approaches, I think the Bucks championship dreams window has closed.
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#467 » by fan230 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:30 pm

TD75 wrote:
Revived wrote:
Cythaps wrote:We couldn't even get an above average 3 point shooting team around him or someone that can pass him the ball in motion. Hell, we couldn't even manage to get the spacing to half decent.

Isn’t Middleton, Hill, Korver, Brook and Williams (at least he was for several seasons before joining the Bucks) all top 3pt shooters in the NBA?

3-5 really good 3pt shooters is about the same or better than what most teams in the league have. Bucks have that.

Brook is a liability in high PnR and whenever he has to guard anyone that is mobile.
Hill is a liability in defense
Korver is a liability in defense and not able to run through screens for more than 18 minutes.
Williams plays like someone who has no clue of his role (maybe not his fault) and is horrible in defense close to the post.

Khris is fine.

The playoffs are not the 3 point shot contest. They are not about just shooting jumpers stationary and with no contest. This is ridiculous to insinuate that you would take for example Hill over Dragic this series just because Hill has a better 3 point shot percentage overall.

This is exactly the reason people are delusional when they claim that the Bucks have built a very good shooting team around Giannis. The proof is out there. There is no wall against Giannis if he has around him elite shooters. Teams are STILL choosing to let Bucks players open at the three point line and build a wall around Giannis.

Half of his time (if not more) Giannis is playing with Bledsoe ffs. Where do you think the one guarding Bledsoe places himself when Giannis has the ball?

Giannis needs 4 very good to elite 3 point shooters around him EVERY time if possible (that also play good to very good defense so that they are actually contributing positively while on the floor). You can't have that if your team only has 2-3 at best.

From the Bucks roster, there are only two players I could see playing with Giannis just fine without any concerns: Khris and Wes Matthews (one of the better acquisitions of the Bucks in years).



Agree: every time a bunch of good 3 point shooters . We are not there now.
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#468 » by Cythaps » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:34 pm

VDT wrote:The coach is always to blame in the Nba, but Bud transformed this team from a fringe playoff team in a weak conference to the best regular season team in the league. People wanting radical adjustments are off imo. You dont change the system that made you dominant in the regular season everyt time you lose a game or two. Changing your main schemes us always a desperation move. Even if Bud has a bad series it happens with every coach because the coach can only go as far as his best player(s) can carry him. What has Spoelstra done since Lebron left? What did Stevens do last year? How is Nurse doing without Kawhi. If you best player plays bad you cant do much other that try to help him and hope he can play better.


If Bud wasn't sabotaging the team by having a 35 minute cap in Giannis and Midds even without foul trouble, the outrage wouldn't be this huge. We already know his weaknesses, but benching his only really good players in crucial minutes in a must win game is preposterous. Nurse, facing the same situation played his 4 best players 46, 45, 41 and 38 minutes with worse foul trouble than the Bucks. Chris Paul played 41 mins his last game, Jokic and Murray played 40 and 41 minutes, Utah's starting five all played 40+ in game 7. It's not a matter of bad coaching anymore, it's a matter of stubbornness or even stupidity. In an overall poop game, Giannis had 5 good minutes. Guess when that stopped. Right - when Bud took him out with 8 minutes remaining while we were still a few points ahead.
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#469 » by TD75 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:40 pm

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GHOSTofSIKMA wrote: wtf is a "fit" with Giannis. hes an amazing talent but he is being over utilized offensively and too many other guys are taking flak for our failures on that end.
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#470 » by TD75 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:42 pm

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:lol: 8-)
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote: wtf is a "fit" with Giannis. hes an amazing talent but he is being over utilized offensively and too many other guys are taking flak for our failures on that end.
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#471 » by Bucksfan28 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:44 pm

truly wrote:
Bucksfan28 wrote:Im not ready to attribute our lack of PnR success to any roster deficiency in ball-handlers. Bled, Hill, and Mids could be sufficiently effective imo. Even DDV seems like someone who could develop in that area.

That problem falls on coaching. We simply don't run those sets. I will say that I dont know any big who we could use as a roll-man outside of Giannis, and hes a bad screen-setter. But acquiring a ball-handler(s) means nothing if coaches dont implement that as part of the offensive strategy.


Look at this.The more you look at it the worse Bud looks.Having Giannis catch the ball at the top of the key time after time plays right into their hands.Yesterday when he caught the ball in the free throw line he scored because they can't keep him away from the basket.Don't even mention the lack of cutting behind the "wall".DDV did once last night and that was definitely not because Bud told him to.We are getting swept and most of the blame belongs to Bud for this.


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Someone pointed this out in the GT: if the average viewer/fan can see it, you have to wonder what the basketball minds behind this team's strategy are thinking.
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#472 » by MickeyDavis » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:44 pm

Are any of our assistants designated as an offensive or defensive coordinator? Or is Bud coming up with the game plans?

I realize that ultimately it's all on the HC but if Bud stays maybe it's time for a new staff. I believe most of them came with him from Atlanta sans Vin . Maybe his staff is coming up with brilliant ideas that Bud ignores. I doubt it.
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#473 » by TD75 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:56 pm

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GHOSTofSIKMA wrote: wtf is a "fit" with Giannis. hes an amazing talent but he is being over utilized offensively and too many other guys are taking flak for our failures on that end.
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#474 » by TD75 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 4:03 pm

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GHOSTofSIKMA wrote: wtf is a "fit" with Giannis. hes an amazing talent but he is being over utilized offensively and too many other guys are taking flak for our failures on that end.
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#475 » by skones » Sat Sep 5, 2020 4:03 pm

I still don't understand what the **** happened. What happened in the bubble?
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#476 » by TD75 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 4:08 pm

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GHOSTofSIKMA wrote: wtf is a "fit" with Giannis. hes an amazing talent but he is being over utilized offensively and too many other guys are taking flak for our failures on that end.
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#477 » by TD75 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 4:09 pm

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GHOSTofSIKMA wrote: wtf is a "fit" with Giannis. hes an amazing talent but he is being over utilized offensively and too many other guys are taking flak for our failures on that end.
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#478 » by machu46 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 4:10 pm

skones wrote:I still don't understand what the **** happened. What happened in the bubble?


Or what happened during the hiatus?
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#479 » by VDT » Sat Sep 5, 2020 4:14 pm

Cythaps wrote:
VDT wrote:The coach is always to blame in the Nba, but Bud transformed this team from a fringe playoff team in a weak conference to the best regular season team in the league. People wanting radical adjustments are off imo. You dont change the system that made you dominant in the regular season everyt time you lose a game or two. Changing your main schemes us always a desperation move. Even if Bud has a bad series it happens with every coach because the coach can only go as far as his best player(s) can carry him. What has Spoelstra done since Lebron left? What did Stevens do last year? How is Nurse doing without Kawhi. If you best player plays bad you cant do much other that try to help him and hope he can play better.


If Bud wasn't sabotaging the team by having a 35 minute cap in Giannis and Midds even without foul trouble, the outrage wouldn't be this huge. We already know his weaknesses, but benching his only really good players in crucial minutes in a must win game is preposterous. Nurse, facing the same situation played his 4 best players 46, 45, 41 and 38 minutes with worse foul trouble than the Bucks. Chris Paul played 41 mins his last game, Jokic and Murray played 40 and 41 minutes, Utah's starting five all played 40+ in game 7. It's not a matter of bad coaching anymore, it's a matter of stubbornness or even stupidity. In an overall poop game, Giannis had 5 good minutes. Guess when that stopped. Right - when Bud took him out with 8 minutes remaining while we were still a few points ahead.


I think you are not being fair to Bud here, which is normal as the coach is the first to blame. Firstly, Giannis didnt play well, what makes you think that he would help the team if he played 4-5 more minutes with ankle pain. When Giannis entered the game for the last 7 minutes the Bucks were 1 point ahead. They lost by 15 and it was in that period that Giannis was playing.


I think Bud has nt helped Giannis get the ball where he can be more dangerous but he doesnt have many options. The roster has been assembled under the assumption that Giannis would be dominant and draw all the defensive attention. Instead the Heat are defending him without sacrificing much of their defensive positioning and are getting away with putting Crowder on him. He tried to use Lopex more in the paint but he is not a player to run your offense through as you saw in the last quarter. He cant do much when his two best players are a player that is heavily dependent on transition baskets and a medium volume iso scorer in Middleton. He doesnt have the personnel to run a more perimeter orientred offense like Miami.

The Bucks just need to play physical defense, force the Heat players to create their own shots and then try to get in transition. Essentially try to impose their will. They should try more to get the ball to Giannis when he is moving, having him iso from the 3 point line just stops any player movement and he is not particularly good at this type of basketball anyway.
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Re: PG Miami - This Buds For You 

Post#480 » by machu46 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 4:14 pm

TD75 wrote:
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I get it to an extent, but the team as a whole is scoring 1.10 points per possession in the playoffs and 1.07 in this series, so is the answer really to use a play that generates less than that more often?

Having said that, yes, theoretically I think many of the things being discussed here would be good. More Giannis as roller, more Giannis getting screens, etc.
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