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PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5

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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#221 » by Coach Carter » Wed Sep 9, 2020 4:44 am

This series needed to end and i'm glad it did. It would've been a shame for heat to not progress. Great coach, great shooting, great defence and team chemistry. Our team has been in shambles the whole time we've been in the bubble. Just a painful watch. Poor coaching and giannis growing pains.
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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#222 » by RogerMurdock » Wed Sep 9, 2020 5:16 am

Look, I'm the biggest Brogdon stan here (see: logos under my name), but these discussions about Brogdon every time one of our guards has a bad game need to stop.
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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#223 » by ejn1214 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 5:27 am

RogerMurdock wrote:Look, I'm the biggest Brogdon stan here (see: logos under my name), but these discussions about Brogdon every time one of our guards has a bad game need to stop.

It is super annoying. I understand other fans asking questions about it, but for any bucks fans to bring it up is so dumb. We have gone over the many reasons it didn't work out so many times. The bottom line was he didn't want to be here so everything else is a mute point. If that still doesn't convince someone why it's a stupid conversation, how about his major injury issues, more evidence coming this year with all the games he missed. I wish him the best, but I think he has a very injury plagued career. There is a reason a ton of teams passed on him (talked about a ton), but where we drafted him it was worth the risk. Paying him a huge contract is another animal, and then there is still the fact he didn't want to play here.
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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#224 » by DavidDunn21 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 5:34 am

No, this is the culmination of the Brogdon question that was a year long controversy.

It is by no means definitive, but what was clear a year ago and is clearer now is Malcolm is a winning playoff piece. That's all we ever said. Turns out we didn't have enough of those guys. The five seconds worth of dribbling people objected to so much became Khris dribbling through his legs for seven seconds.

Wes did some nice things defensively for us this year, but Brogdon took a good amount of pressure off Khris and Eric.

(When he was healthy)

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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#225 » by ejn1214 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 5:40 am

I'm a bit confused on why the defense looked alot better and more intense tonight. Did we make adjustments? Does everyone play looser/more focused without giannis? I understand offensive flow looks different without giannis but I don't get the defense.

Also, to me, bud makes adjustments when we are basically done. Last year mirotic was unplayable and I think he didn't bench him till the elimination game. This year it took till an elimination game to figure out to basically match Matthews minutes with Butler and to not play our bench so much. I just don't get bud. Why does he keep doing the same thing every year and fail in the playoffs. Can he not self evaluate? I don't listen to all his interviews, but it seems to me he never takes any blame for losses and say he should do better. It's not like that will help us but it would atleast show that he understands he is making mistakes and wants to improve. He just does the same thing every year over and over again. You would think he would figure out the playoffs don't work like the regular season.
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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#226 » by GiannisAnte34 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 6:16 am

bcks fan wrote:I’m excited that I can go from bitching about the Bucks and feeling disappointed by them right into being disappointed by the Packers and bitching about them.

What unprecedented times we live in!


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the Packers overachieved last season so you couldn't have been bitching too much. it was very predictable they'd get smashed by San Fran, tho not even I predicted Mostert to look like prime Barry Sanders against the Packers front 7
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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#227 » by Serge28 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 6:29 am

Miami had 8 different players that made at least 3 shots each. All 8 shot at least 43%.
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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#228 » by Revived » Wed Sep 9, 2020 6:31 am

RogerMurdock wrote:Look, I'm the biggest Brogdon stan here (see: logos under my name), but these discussions about Brogdon every time one of our guards has a bad game need to stop.

This isn’t accurate. Bledsoe has been a problem ever since coming to the Bucks. Found this on the GB and can’t argue with it.


Against Celtics in 2018 (6 games):
13.6 PPG / 44 FG% / 31.8 3P%

Against Raptors in 2019 (6 games):
10.2 PPG / 29.4 FG% / 17.2 3P%

Against Heat in 2020 (4 games)
11.8 PPG / 33.3 FG% / 21.4 3P%


You don’t think Brogdon can out perform those #s?
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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#229 » by Baddy Chuck » Wed Sep 9, 2020 6:37 am

Revived wrote:
RogerMurdock wrote:Look, I'm the biggest Brogdon stan here (see: logos under my name), but these discussions about Brogdon every time one of our guards has a bad game need to stop.

This isn’t accurate. Bledsoe has been a problem ever since coming to the Bucks. Found this on the GB and can’t argue with it.


Against Celtics in 2018 (6 games):
13.6 PPG / 44 FG% / 31.8 3P%

Against Raptors in 2019 (6 games):
10.2 PPG / 29.4 FG% / 17.2 3P%

Against Heat in 2020 (4 games)
11.8 PPG / 33.3 FG% / 21.4 3P%


You don’t think Brogdon can out perform those #s?

Well I mean, he really didn't when he was here


Against the Raptors 2017 (6 games)
9 PPG / 37.3 FG% / 27% 3P%

Against the Celtics 2018 (7 games)
8.7 PPG / 43.4 FG% / 27.4 3P%

Against the Celtics 2019 (injured all but 1 game)

Against the Raptors 2019 (6 games)
13.5 PPG / 44.7 FG% / 35.1 3P%
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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#230 » by ejn1214 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 6:41 am

DavidDunn21 wrote:No, this is the culmination of the Brogdon question that was a year long controversy.

It is by no means definitive, but what was clear a year ago and is clearer now is Malcolm is a winning playoff piece. That's all we ever said. Turns out we didn't have enough of those guys. The five seconds worth of dribbling people objected to so much became Khris dribbling through his legs for seven seconds.

Wes did some nice things defensively for us this year, but Brogdon took a good amount of pressure off Khris and Eric.

(When he was healthy)

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Lol. He's a winning playoff piece? Stopped reading after that. They got swept this year.
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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#231 » by ejn1214 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 6:44 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
Revived wrote:
RogerMurdock wrote:Look, I'm the biggest Brogdon stan here (see: logos under my name), but these discussions about Brogdon every time one of our guards has a bad game need to stop.

This isn’t accurate. Bledsoe has been a problem ever since coming to the Bucks. Found this on the GB and can’t argue with it.


Against Celtics in 2018 (6 games):
13.6 PPG / 44 FG% / 31.8 3P%

Against Raptors in 2019 (6 games):
10.2 PPG / 29.4 FG% / 17.2 3P%

Against Heat in 2020 (4 games)
11.8 PPG / 33.3 FG% / 21.4 3P%


You don’t think Brogdon can out perform those #s?

Well I mean, he really didn't when he was here


Against the Raptors 2017 (6 games)
9 PPG / 37.3 FG% / 27% 3P%

Against the Celtics 2018 (7 games)
8.7 PPG / 43.4 FG% / 27.4 3P%

Against the Celtics 2019 (injured all but 1 game)

Against the Raptors 2019 (6 games)
13.5 PPG / 44.7 FG% / 35.1 3P%

Game. Set. Match.
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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#232 » by Baddy Chuck » Wed Sep 9, 2020 6:55 am

Don't get me wrong though as was my opinion when it happened letting Malcolm Brogdon go when/how we did was an absolutely moronic team and money move by the B's and nobody will ever convince me otherwise. Brogdon would have literally had to threatened to sit out the season for me to not bring him back to the best team in the league with a superstar that wasn't locked up.
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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#233 » by Sigra » Wed Sep 9, 2020 8:31 am

Very hard to save this Bucks team now honestly. Big mistakes were already made (Middleton contract and Bledsoe contract). Those mistakes were made because of great regular season record and that regular season record is result of regular season system that doesn't work in playoffs.

How can professional GMs miss what common people can see? I saw that this regular season system cant work in playoffs. I saw it long time ago and I am just some guy in Bosnia who watch only few Bucks games per season (maybe 10 games this year before bubble). How professionals who watch every Bucks games on big screens with analytics and with who knows what tools couldn't see it?

It was clear to me 2 years ago that Giannis need real playmaker and shooters. It was clear to me long time ago that Middleton is not 2nd best player in championship team. It was clear to me long time ago that you cant have playoff success with Bledsoe and Giannis together at same time because spacing sucks with 2 bad shooters playing at the same time. How GM cant see that?

Instead of paying Middleton and Bledsoe they should have keep Brogdon and then try to use picks to get 2nd star who will be main ball handler in playoffs. Like Paul for example. The only championship this franchise have came when they drafted young superstar frontcourt player and then added old veteran playmaker. They should risk and try that. But regular season record (which is result of regular season system that doesnt work in playoffs) forced them to make mistakes.

When all is said and done the biggest mistake was coach Bud. His system produced great regular season, that produces MVP awards and expectations while in reality we have young confused boy from Greece who still learn how to play this game (but will already have 2 MVP awards which is big problem) and bunch of overpaid guys who don't fit that confused boy in playoffs basketball. Coach Bud system destroyed this team. Defend paint then run and gun in fast breaks. Great for regular season. Not for playoffs when you must know how to score in slow how court basketball. We dont have personal or experience with slow half court basketball because coach Bud run and gun in regular season.

I dont see how to fix it now. If we fire coach Bud and some other coach try half court regular season basketball we will not win as many regular season games and Giannis will not be MVP but when playoffs come we still wouldnt have personal for playoff basketball and will lose in playoffs. Trades are hard too because we have bad contracts now.

Maybe the best thing is to not do anything. We can enjoy regular seasons plus we should always win in 1st round of playoffs and some 2nd rounds too. Even if we dont change anything. It is better then Michael Redd or Vin Baker years so at least something. :(
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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#234 » by yannisk » Wed Sep 9, 2020 12:12 pm

I don't know what to make with this team. This year playoffs we looked terrible, but if you take last year (with Warrior injuries) we were very close to reach finals and win the championship. Just Bud adjusting and playing the starters more or our "shooters" hit a few open 3Ps, or Giannis hitting a few FTs, or even FVV missing once in a while
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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#235 » by DavidDunn21 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 2:05 pm

ejn1214 wrote:
DavidDunn21 wrote:No, this is the culmination of the Brogdon question that was a year long controversy.

It is by no means definitive, but what was clear a year ago and is clearer now is Malcolm is a winning playoff piece. That's all we ever said. Turns out we didn't have enough of those guys. The five seconds worth of dribbling people objected to so much became Khris dribbling through his legs for seven seconds.

Wes did some nice things defensively for us this year, but Brogdon took a good amount of pressure off Khris and Eric.

(When he was healthy)

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Lol. He's a winning playoff piece? Stopped reading after that. They got swept this year.
"Piece".

Derek Fisher & Robert Horry didn't put up great numbers, but they were winning pieces. Some of you guys need to figure this out.

Decent chance that Malcolm swings Game 2 or 3 when everyone went cold. Decent chance that he covers a bit for the quarters where Khris couldn't hit the side of a barn.

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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#236 » by tydett » Wed Sep 9, 2020 2:12 pm

Indiana wanted Brogdon. Brogdon wanted Indiana. Indiana's ownership did the (foolish) genteel move of offering the Bucks assets for Brogdon so that they wouldn't match his contract. If they wanted to force the issue, then they could've signed Brogdon straight away to his contract and then the Bucks either don't match and get nothing for him, or they match and then you have Bledsoe/Brogdon/Middleton/Giannis/? with no Hill on the bench, because Brogdon puts you over the cap and prevents you from signing Brook and Hill. Your 6th man is still DDV but your 7th and 8th men are Patty C and Ersan, and you have literally no center depth aside from minimum contract guys.

There was no way financially to get back Brook/Hill/Brogdon once the Bledsoe contract was signed. Take issue with the Bledsoe signing as much as you want, but Bucks fans (and really the media who should know better but want to create a story from nothing) should stop bringing up Brogdon as if the cheapskate owners only had the choice between the team as presently constructed and the team as presently constructed +Brogdon -some billionaire (with a B) capital.
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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#237 » by Matches Malone » Wed Sep 9, 2020 2:27 pm

tydett wrote:Indiana wanted Brogdon. Brogdon wanted Indiana. Indiana's ownership did the (foolish) genteel move of offering the Bucks assets for Brogdon so that they wouldn't match his contract. If they wanted to force the issue, then they could've signed Brogdon straight away to his contract and then the Bucks either don't match and get nothing for him, or they match and then you have Bledsoe/Brogdon/Middleton/Giannis/? with no Hill on the bench, because Brogdon puts you over the cap and prevents you from signing Brook and Hill. Your 6th man is still DDV but your 7th and 8th men are Patty C and Ersan, and you have literally no center depth aside from minimum contract guys.

There was no way financially to get back Brook/Hill/Brogdon once the Bledsoe contract was signed. Take issue with the Bledsoe signing as much as you want, but Bucks fans (and really the media who should know better but want to create a story from nothing) should stop bringing up Brogdon as if the cheapskate owners only had the choice between the team as presently constructed and the team as presently constructed +Brogdon -some billionaire (with a B) capital.


People also keep forgetting about Brogdon's injury history. He's been unavailable for a substantial chunk of his career already. I'd still take Brogdon over Bledsoe in hindsight, but I totally understand why the owners didn't feel completely comfortable handing over that kind of coin to someone who's always hurt.
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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#238 » by DingleJerry » Wed Sep 9, 2020 2:28 pm

MissKhriddleton wrote:
DingleJerry wrote:Also, Midds generally showed up in all 5 games. Shot didn't hit tonight as the focal point of the D and being dogged by some good guys. But the effort, energy, attitude were all there. Did all he could in a tough spot, he's just not thaaaat good on that top tier. Please next year when he has one or two bad game can we not have to hear about how he's garbage in the playoffs, mentally weak and scared.

The man who is set to make on average $36.7 million over the next 4 years is being praised for "generally showing up." Speaks for itself.


Well yea, shouldn't he be? he played pretty much exactly at his level of play. This flies completely in the face of the "middleton is a coward who doesn't show up in the playoffs' narrative that happens anytime he has a bad game or two.

It's on you if you thought he'd all of a sudden become a better player due to the contract. It's not his fault the cap system is totally out of whack. What's he supposed to do, say no I don't want the money.
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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#239 » by fan230 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 2:48 pm

Rather than writing a v long post, I will share my thoughts in smaller pieces in more than one post.

Giannis is a transcendent talent. We are v lucky to have him.

Strengths: Ability to score in transition. I remember discussions that he was impossible to stop. If he was guarded by a tall guy, he would blow by him. If he was guarded by a short quick guy, he would score over him.

Toronto and now the Heat found a way out. They put a wall around him. The Bucks had no counter. This is the single most important reason why we lost although there were other imp reasons.

The obvious solution to the wall was that since it meant others were open, they would have open shots. Solid theory but it failed in practice.

Reason: Other than Km we did not, last year and much more so this year, have consistently good shooters especially in our starting group. I have not checked the numbers but I think Brookes’ 3 pt shooting became worse this year. Wes was a huge downgrade from Brog in terms of scoring at the sg position. Eb was never a good shooter.

Toronto beat us because of poor shooting by the others when they put a wall around Ga,poor ft s by
Ga, and great 3 pt shooting by fvv —- along with other causes.

Other teams learned and implemented the same strategy but better. The Heat had a plethora of v good shooters. So even if one of them was cold, the others would pick up the slack. And they decided to attempt more and more such shots.

This resulted in a higher expected value of points for the Heat than ours.

Ga’s main offensive thrust was thus nullified and he did not improve his ft s.

Also opponents tried hard to become stationary (A la Ersan) when ga was driving, causing offensive fouls.
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Re: PG - Bucks Come Up Short in Game 5 

Post#240 » by steger_3434 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 2:57 pm

Final game of the season knocking us out way earlier than was expected and post game thread is only 12 pages. Even the most hardcore bucks fans are less distraught over this than last year. The casuals really don’t even care. The bucks and the nba are in trouble.


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