Giannis Thread - 2 Time MVP - The Contract discussions

[EastSideBucksFan]

Brogdon was literally the perfect complement to Bledsoe, ball handler, shooter, floor general, just the health that scared Bucks off.

Of course he turned in the best playoffs of his career against the very same opponent we struggled with.

But, we had that salary slot and could have paid him. Now that's gone and we can't just sign a guy like that.

His replacements: Wes, Hill, RoLo, Korver.....Wes is only good for short defensive minutes and Hill is over the Hill. Rolo not even active and Korver on his last legs.

I'm willing to bet that Brogdon was a big part of the conversation between Lasry and Giannis

Bucks franchise has gone up $1Billion with a B in value over the last 6 years and we went cheap on a championship

[MickeyDavis]

LED can either pay the tax and keep us as contenders or have revenue plummet when the FF is half full and lowers are going for $25 on Stubhub, as was the case the last few years of the BC.

[Fotis St]

The fatal error was re-signing Bledsoe and failing to do anything about despite it being pretty clear he isn’t up to it.

There weren't a lot of other alternatives. Its hard to find a first team all-defense PG who can blow up the opposing team's offense at the point of attack.

Go back over Bucks PG history. Bledsoe will go down as one of the best over the last 30 years despite his brain freezes.

I'm not mitigating how damaging the brain freezes are. Just noting he brings a lot to the table that isn't easily replicated with "Frank Mason".

Last night was thinking about how good our problems are compared to past years. Now it's that all our players aren't perfect. Just a few short years ago we were starting Delly and Henson.

This is so true. This year's elimination made me think about our 2018 Team

2018.................... 2020
PG Brogdon........... Bledsoe
SG Khris............... Wes
SF Giannis............. Khris
PF Jabari.............. Giannis
C Thon................. Brook

If we could put them against each other, which of those Teams wins ? I could argue the 2018 Wins .. What do you think ?
My point is , we did not improve that much to win a Championship or make it to the Finals

[Prez]

I believe we are asking too much from Giannis, its like we are asking from him to beat a whole team by himself.
So I myself pointed out that he needs to improve his FT%, that should be his next step of improvement.
Meanwhile people have expressed complains on why Giannis can't win a 1v3 - wall situation ?
Is that serious ? I mean lets ask him to Defend-get the rebound-get fast break points or if they get back and
we are on half court offense, beat the 1v3 , beat em all too and win us the trophy.
And do that in 32 minutes ? I mean this is bs, what the **** are we paying the others for ?
It hasn't happened ever in any team sport and Giannis even a SemiGod can't do it by himself.
We need better coaching right now, we need this 2nd guy that draws alot of attention and creates wholes to opponent defenses.
A playmaker , a creator and scorer , so Giannis can have a break even in game and be more relaxed and clever on his off ball movement to impact the game. Khris ain't that type of player, he can get his own shot alright but he can't create for others cause he is slow and his handles aren't that good to penetrate and create space for others.

I mean is it really asking that much out of a back to back MVP to have a reliable go-to game outside of 6 feet? If teams can load up in the paint and completely neutralize him, that is not just a supporting cast problem, that's also a Giannis problem. I don't know how you can watch the diversity of offense guys like Jokic, Doncic, LeBron, Kawhi are showing in these playoffs compared to what Giannis showed against Miami and come away thinking Giannis is fine in that regard.

There were significant stretches of that Miami series where Giannis was a negative offensively, and he wasn't even our best player in the series. We need to stop framing this as a LeBron first stint in Cleveland type situation where Giannis was 1v5ing the opponent and the others failed him. The others didn't play that well, but Giannis didn't bring it either.

[tydett]

I mean is it really asking that much out of a back to back MVP to have a reliable go-to game outside of 6 feet? If teams can load up in the paint and completely neutralize him, that is not just a supporting cast problem, that's also a Giannis problem. I don't know how you can watch the diversity of offense guys like Jokic, Doncic, LeBron, Kawhi are showing in these playoffs compared to what Giannis showed against Miami and come away thinking Giannis is fine in that regard.

There were significant stretches of that Miami series where Giannis was a negative offensively, and he wasn't even our best player in the series. We need to stop framing this as a LeBron first stint in Cleveland type situation where Giannis was 1v5ing the opponent and the others failed him. The others didn't play that well, but Giannis didn't bring it either.

+1 times a thousand. Bud did him no favors by not changing up the game plan of Giannis get ball at 3 point line and barrels/sidesteps to hoop, but Giannis needed to play all series like he did at the beginning of Game 4 - and he simply didn't.

[tydett]

There weren't a lot of other alternatives. Its hard to find a first team all-defense PG who can blow up the opposing team's offense at the point of attack.

Go back over Bucks PG history. Bledsoe will go down as one of the best over the last 30 years despite his brain freezes.

I'm not mitigating how damaging the brain freezes are. Just noting he brings a lot to the table that isn't easily replicated with "Frank Mason".

Last night was thinking about how good our problems are compared to past years. Now it's that all our players aren't perfect. Just a few short years ago we were starting Delly and Henson.

This is so true. This year's elimination made me think about our 2018 Team

2018.................... 2020
PG Brogdon........... Bledsoe
SG Khris............... Wes
SF Giannis............. Khris
PF Jabari.............. Giannis
C Thon................. Brook

If we could put them against each other, which of those Teams wins ?I could argue the 2018 Wins .. What do you think ?
My point is , we did not improve that much to win a Championship or make it to the Finals

Just wanted to let you know that this is the worst take I've ever seen on this board, and that's saying something.

[greekbuck34]

Jokic has the best 3p shooters.
The Lakers shooting at an insane clip in the playoffs.
Dallas main strentgh is shooting the 3.
Clippers has the most depth.
Miami shot the lights out against us.
Boston the same.
Toronto is basically a 3 and D team.

Remember Giannis having 50point games and 35p triple doubles and our offense not being enough against Dallas without Doncic or Denver.

The Bucks supporting cast is trash compare to those teams. In the Orlando series where we were struggling Giannis was our 3d best 3p shooter and 3rd in attempts.

This is a Bucks team problem. Both the supporting cast and Giannis problem because of the supporting cast.

What's easier?
Top expect from Giannis to become the GOAT and start shooting 3s or Kobe midrangers over 2-3 guys or build a good shooting team just like the rest of the league with a proper point guard to run the offense and PNR with Giannis?

[tydett]

Brogdon was literally the perfect complement to Bledsoe, ball handler, shooter, floor general, just the health that scared Bucks off.

Of course he turned in the best playoffs of his career against the very same opponent we struggled with.

But, we had that salary slot and could have paid him. Now that's gone and we can't just sign a guy like that.

His replacements: Wes, Hill, RoLo, Korver.....Wes is only good for short defensive minutes and Hill is over the Hill. Rolo not even active and Korver on his last legs.

I'm willing to bet that Brogdon was a big part of the conversation between Lasry and Giannis

Bucks franchise has gone up $1Billion with a B in value over the last 6 years and we went cheap on a championship

You left Brook out of the replacements, who the Bucks would not have been able to sign if they had retained Brogdon's services unless they used the MLE (and didn't keep any of the guys you mentioned above) and Brook was willing to sign for it.

[PG Graveyard]

We've been over this a million times and people are still pushing their predictable Brogdon agendas. Besides the ultimate irony of him and the Pacers getting, you know, actually swept against the Heat in the previous round, you wouldn't have had Hill, or the guy that actually played the best defense on Butler all series, in Wes. We'd be in the same exact situation, except we'd be facing the repeater tax a year earlier.

Also if there wasn't a pandemic Brogdon wouldn't have been available in the playoffs after missing half the season again.

[emunney]

There weren't a lot of other alternatives. Its hard to find a first team all-defense PG who can blow up the opposing team's offense at the point of attack.

Go back over Bucks PG history. Bledsoe will go down as one of the best over the last 30 years despite his brain freezes.

I'm not mitigating how damaging the brain freezes are. Just noting he brings a lot to the table that isn't easily replicated with "Frank Mason".

Last night was thinking about how good our problems are compared to past years. Now it's that all our players aren't perfect. Just a few short years ago we were starting Delly and Henson.

This is so true. This year's elimination made me think about our 2018 Team

2018.................... 2020
PG Brogdon........... Bledsoe
SG Khris............... Wes
SF Giannis............. Khris
PF Jabari.............. Giannis
C Thon................. Brook

If we could put them against each other, which of those Teams wins ? I could argue the 2018 Wins .. What do you think ?
My point is , we did not improve that much to win a Championship or make it to the Finals

I guess you could argue the 2018 team wins but I'm not sure what that argument would be. Jabari and Thon are barely in the league, buried in the bench of lottery teams.

[PG Graveyard]

I wonder if Giannis signs an extension, but not the five year max. Maybe something like Kawhi did with the Clippers, two plus one.

1. It guarantees Giannis a bunch more money on top of his expiring 100 million dollar deal, and with his young age, he'd still get another monster contract before he turns 30.

2. It allows him to show some loyalty to the Bucks which seems to matter to him, but doesn't tie him to the team for as long as a five year extension in case a title doesn't happen or look realistic.

Seems like the most likely scenario especially with the salary cap staying stagnant for a few years. Also I believe it allows him to sign something more substantial after 10 years or something...I could be wrong.

[Fotis St]

Last night was thinking about how good our problems are compared to past years. Now it's that all our players aren't perfect. Just a few short years ago we were starting Delly and Henson.

This is so true. This year's elimination made me think about our 2018 Team

2018.................... 2020
PG Brogdon........... Bledsoe
SG Khris............... Wes
SF Giannis............. Khris
PF Jabari.............. Giannis
C Thon................. Brook

If we could put them against each other, which of those Teams wins ?I could argue the 2018 Wins .. What do you think ?
My point is , we did not improve that much to win a Championship or make it to the Finals

Just wanted to let you know that this is the worst take I've ever seen on this board, and that's saying something.

It says nothing , we can have different opinions.
But the experiment would be all of them healthy in 2020 and under the same coach.
Like get em in a gym right now and let them go at each other.
No matter what team you choose, its OK, you missed my point ... we didn't improve that much

[machu46]

This is so true. This year's elimination made me think about our 2018 Team

2018.................... 2020
PG Brogdon........... Bledsoe
SG Khris............... Wes
SF Giannis............. Khris
PF Jabari.............. Giannis
C Thon................. Brook

If we could put them against each other, which of those Teams wins ?I could argue the 2018 Wins .. What do you think ?
My point is , we did not improve that much to win a Championship or make it to the Finals

Just wanted to let you know that this is the worst take I've ever seen on this board, and that's saying something.

It says nothing , we can have different opinions.
But the experiment would be all of them healthy in 2020 and under the same coach.
Like get em in a gym right now and let them go at each other.
No matter what team you choose, its OK, you missed my point ... we didn't improve that much

Thon is barely an NBA player and we replaced him with a DPOY contender who is also useful offensively. Jabari is still trying to find a workable role in the NBA and we replaced him with a legitimately good defender and solid 3 point shooter. We undoubtedly improved a lot over the past 3 years. It still isn't a perfect team by any means but there's no logical argument that we haven't improved a lot. I wouldn't say this is the worst take that's ever been posted on this board, but it is a flat out incorrect one.

[emunney]

Just for the sake of historical accuracy, we traded for Bledsoe in November 2017.

[emunney]

Thon got his matchup with Brook in the playoffs last year, went great for him IIRC.

[Prez]

Jokic has the best 3p shooters.
The Lakers shooting at an insane clip in the playoffs.
Dallas main strentgh is shooting the 3.
Clippers has the most depth.
Miami shot the lights out against us.
Boston the same.
Toronto is basically a 3 and D team.

Remember Giannis having 50point games and 35p triple doubles and our offense not being enough against Dallas without Doncic or Denver.

The Bucks supporting cast is trash compare to those teams. In the Orlando series where we were struggling Giannis was our 3d best 3p shooter and 3rd in attempts.

What's easier?
Top expect from Giannis to become the GOAT and start shooting 3s or Kobe midrangers over 2-3 guys or build a good shooting team just like the rest of the league with a proper point guard to run the offense and PNR with Giannis?

We using random RS games to talk the supporting cast down? What about the season as a whole when they still outscored the opponent with Giannis on the bench, or when they were playing at a 70 win pace for most of the year? I also remember Giannis not being our best player against Miami and our only win in the series coming in a game Giannis played 11 minutes

This is a Bucks team problem. Both the supporting cast and Giannis problem because of the supporting cast.

Nah, the Giannis problem is a Giannis problem. Stop blaming everyone else for the limitations in his game. The supporting cast is flawed and needs to improve, no one is disputing this. Coaching needs to improve as well. But you guys try to pin the blame for Giannis' struggles on everyone but himself.

[fansinceforever]

I believe we are asking too much from Giannis, its like we are asking from him to beat a whole team by himself.
So I myself pointed out that he needs to improve his FT%, that should be his next step of improvement.
Meanwhile people have expressed complains on why Giannis can't win a 1v3 - wall situation ?
Is that serious ? I mean lets ask him to Defend-get the rebound-get fast break points or if they get back and
we are on half court offense, beat the 1v3 , beat em all too and win us the trophy.
And do that in 32 minutes ? I mean this is bs, what the **** are we paying the others for ?
It hasn't happened ever in any team sport and Giannis even a SemiGod can't do it by himself.
We need better coaching right now, we need this 2nd guy that draws alot of attention and creates wholes to opponent defenses.
A playmaker , a creator and scorer , so Giannis can have a break even in game and be more relaxed and clever on his off ball movement to impact the game. Khris ain't that type of player, he can get his own shot alright but he can't create for others cause he is slow and his handles aren't that good to penetrate and create space for others.

I mean is it really asking that much out of a back to back MVP to have a reliable go-to game outside of 6 feet? If teams can load up in the paint and completely neutralize him, that is not just a supporting cast problem, that's also a Giannis problem. I don't know how you can watch the diversity of offense guys like Jokic, Doncic, LeBron, Kawhi are showing in these playoffs compared to what Giannis showed against Miami and come away thinking Giannis is fine in that regard.

There were significant stretches of that Miami series where Giannis was a negative offensively, and he wasn't even our best player in the series. We need to stop framing this as a LeBron first stint in Cleveland type situation where Giannis was 1v5ing the opponent and the others failed him. The others didn't play that well, but Giannis didn't bring it either.

Absolutely. Begins and ends with Giannis. He needs to be a lot better. I think some struggles could be negated with better coaching and schemes offensively. Also, with a teammate that we could rely on to create.

Watching the Heat continuously get into the lane with our defenders trailing and either hitting mid range shots, floaters, layups or dumping to a teammate was extremely frustrating. Mostly because we saw so little of that on our team.

[SirChurros]

Nah, the Giannis problem is a Giannis problem. Stop blaming everyone else for the limitations in his game. The supporting cast is flawed and needs to improve, no one is disputing this. Coaching needs to improve as well. But you guys try to pin the blame for Giannis' struggles on everyone but himself.

Have to agree. Even if this team doesn't end up hitting 70 wins, it would have come pretty damn close. You can't just sit around blaming the supporting cast when it was working for the vast majority of the season. Nor is it reasonable to expect the supporting cast to hit every shot.

The fact of the matter is that the Heat game planned Giannis out of a series and it worked because he's still relatively limited. Couple that with Bud's unwillingness or slow response to adjust and you're in trouble.

[Ron Swanson]

People taking this whole Giannis-needs-someone-to-take-the-ball-out-of-his-hands thing way too far. You can't actually turn him into Rudy Gobert/DeAndre Jordan and you can't be using your MVP superstar as some off-ball decoy. We're still going to be putting the ball in his hands a lot, and you absolutely need to, because he's still one of the most unstoppable players in league history. It's not even about the jump-shot for me anymore. He just needs to make better/quicker decisions.

[Brewhoopfan]

NFL analogy: If Giannis was a WR, Bud only has him running 2 routes. It's incredibly effective (dominant) in the regular season, but teams can limit the production in the playoffs. The system stinks in the playoffs. Period. Plenty of teams do just fine with a non-shooter on the floor. It's up to the coach to hide player weaknesses and amplify strengths. You want Giannis to be a more diverse scorer? Then the coach needs to put some diversity in the offense to put him in multiple areas to attack and/or put pressure on the defense. It might mean (gasp!) sacrificing a few regular season wins.

Is the supporting cast good enough? No. As long as Bud relies on individual talent to win playoff games, the supporting cast will never be good enough until it's more talented than every other team.