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Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6

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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#321 » by Krispy Kreme » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:43 pm

greekbuck34 wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:Why are people pretending like we don't have capable shooters? We've been about in the middle of the league as far as 3P% goes the past two seasons and that's with Giannis taking 3-5 per game and bringing the average down.


We look decent(35.4%) but still streaky in the regular season when Giannis keeps breaking down defenses with his driving and general havoc in the paint when the ball moves a little before the shot.

Against a top tier defense which gambles everything to take away Giannis strengths with a wall of defenders we are garbage not only because we have very overrated shooting but also because the ball doesn't move at all at times.

Against the Raptors

Open shots = 3.5/10.8(32.3%)
Wide Open shots= 7.7/23.3(32.9%)

Against the Heat

Open shots = 5.8/17.2(33.7%)
Wide Open shots= 3.0/10.4(28.8%)

From all the playoffs teams I've seen only Orlando can shoot as bad as us in an entire series and I have my doubts after what I've seen from our series in the 1st round.


If you're relying on the three as much as the Bucks do, there's always going to be streaky shooting. We're not the Warriors. And even the Warriors, with several of the best shooters ever, were down 4-5% in their last title run. It's natural for percentages to dip in the postseason.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#322 » by raferfenix » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:53 pm

I'm not clear on the extent to which avoiding the repeater tax comes into play with assessing the financial decision to let Brogdon walk.

Figuring that will ultimately be determined by what moves we make this offseason. Will we take advantage of the respite from the luxury tax that letting Brogdon walk afforded us, or nah?

Also whether Giannis is pissed about it or understanding.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#323 » by th87 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:22 pm

raferfenix wrote:I'm not clear on the extent to which avoiding the repeater tax comes into play with assessing the financial decision to let Brogdon walk.

Figuring that will ultimately be determined by what moves we make this offseason. Will we take advantage of the respite from the luxury tax that letting Brogdon walk afforded us, or nah?

Also whether Giannis is pissed about it or understanding.


Brogdon is becoming Michael Jordan on the GB as we speak.

But in 2019, we knew he had missed 34 games in 2018, and 26 games in 2019, where the Bucks went 23-3.

DDV had shown promise as a potential replacement.

Can it really be justified to plunk $80 million (plus like $90 million in tax money) for a luxury player that the Bucks hadn't demonstrated needing at the time?

Definitely blew it on the loss of asset though, no doubt.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#324 » by emunney » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:41 pm

I don't mind relitigating Brogdon to death but this is really about the guys we have. Our guys were booting up and didn't fully come online until game 4 when it was too damn late. That's an organizational failure. It's a ding on Bud's plan to coast in and ramp up, on the lack of oversight of that plan, and on the individual players who were personally unprepared for the restart.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#325 » by blazza18 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:59 pm

Krispy Kreme wrote:Why are people pretending like we don't have capable shooters? We've been about in the middle of the league as far as 3P% goes the past two seasons and that's with Giannis taking 3-5 per game and bringing the average down.


We had one guy opposing defences cared about in the Miami series and they left him camped behind the line a fair bit too.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#326 » by fansinceforever » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:19 pm

Brogdon was not a luxury. The Bucks were not good enough last year to go to the finals and they were even less equipped this season.

Scheme, preparedness for the Bubble, Giannis's offensive arsenal, failings of other complimentary pieces, etc are all issues. Absolutely. But we can't keep acting like letting Brogdon walk was not an enormous blunder, because it was.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#327 » by Fotis St » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:23 pm

Bud managed to mess us up a couple of times in the remaining RS games in the Bubble...
Do you remember me for posting that his coaching cost us the games ? Bud was awful in the RS Games in the bubble too.
I am not talking about players being out of shape, I am talking about his rotations, our X&Os out of time outs, just awful coaching letting opponets take the W, honestly something like quitting on the team, not in purpose but being incompetent.

Then Korver made a statement that we need step it up , cause I have seen teams fall of a cliff in situations like that...
Korver got me thinking this was a masked warning about our coaching and some players not locked in and coaching stubborness.
You can't assume a 40 year old veteran just saying that, showing the smoke and you don't believe there is a fire inside the team somewhere ... I remember Giannis being really upset and some players were cruising ...

So, I think the 1st time that really pissed off Giannis and really gave him doubts about our roster and not being able to win anything with them was our GAME 1 LOSS vs Orlando Magic .

After all the preparation and wanting to at least come out of the East ...

Giannis 34min , 31p , 12/25 FG , 3/7 3p , 17 Reb, 7 ass

Khris 31min , 14p , 4/12 FG , 2/6 3p , 6 Reb, 4 ass
Brook 30min , 5p , 2/9 FG , 0/4 3p , 4 Reb, 1 ass
Bled 28min , 15p , 5/ 11 FG 1/5 3p , 2 Reb, 5 ass

Bucks 110 - Magic 122 L

I mean if I were Giannis this would be one of the most disappointing moments, thinking like "my teammates are not going to help win anything". So I think even winning this series 4-1 , the damage was done, from the Ls in the RS Bubble Games and the Loss from Magic. The team never really played well in the Bubble. The confidence was lost right there and the chemistry was never the same after the Ls colllected in the RS Games in the bubble.

edit: I mean on a Championship level Team ... some games we should still get the W even with Giannis having a really bad day,
no the Bucks as constructed ... its like Giannis is not allowed to have a day off, and his teammates win it for him, like they have his back, no never , current Bucks in order to win games need Giannis on 100% or on God Mode and sometimes that is not enough. I bet this team can't even rebound without Giannis. And on top of that I see Bucks fans... for crying out loud , Giannis needs to make midrange jumpers and have a go to move , Giannis needs to this and that, thats all bs , Giannis needs a better coach and a better roster around him.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#328 » by yannisk » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:55 pm

Goran Dragic comparing biggest difference on Defense against Jayson Tatum and Giannis Antetokounmpo

“I still think Giannis doesn’t have so much help,” Dragic said, via Jay King of The Athletic. “Tatum, if you look, he’s got around (him) Kemba and Brown. He’s the leader of that team, no doubt. We need to prepare for him, but we cannot just throw out the whole defense at him and forget about other guys.”
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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#329 » by Prez » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:37 pm

greekbuck34 wrote:Our only win against Miami came from Giannis scoring 19p in 11 minutes, Miami relaxing like everything was over when he went down and Khris making contested shot after contested shot to close out the game. Next game without Giannis we were so bad on offense that Giannis bullying 3 players seemed like a top tier offense in our minds.

The only way for the Bucks to look like contenders is Giannis playing his game which is attacking the paint and the missmatches at the post and kicking out for wide open shots even from average shooters.

Look man you can try to twist this any way you want to but the reality is they won their only game that series with Giannis playing 11 minutes and not playing at all in the entire 2nd half and OT. And they followed it up with a competitive loss in game 5, showing that them hanging with Miami in game 4 without Giannis wasn’t a fluke. For a supposed “trash” supporting cast, that wouldn’t have happened.
Giannis shooting midrangers and 3s should only be the cherry at the top and not the solution against the wall tactic. The supporting cast and the coach should try to find a way to punish this defense otherwise we have no hope unless Giannis magically learns to shoot and does everything by himself.

You make it seem like we’re asking him to travel through time or something. Asking your back to back MVP and top 5 player in the world to be able to reliably score outside 6 feet and make smart decisions and not have his production/efficiency dramatically fall off against elite half court defense isn’t that unreasonable at all.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#330 » by jimmybones » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:43 pm

Krispy Kreme wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:People taking this whole Giannis-needs-someone-to-take-the-ball-out-of-his-hands thing way too far. You can't actually turn him into Rudy Gobert/DeAndre Jordan and you can't be using your MVP superstar as some off-ball decoy. We're still going to be putting the ball in his hands a lot, and you absolutely need to, because he's still one of the most unstoppable players in league history. It's not even about the jump-shot for me anymore. He just needs to make better/quicker decisions.


Perhaps I'm misreading what people are saying, but I think people are saying that he needs someone to take the ball away from him when teams scheme him into going 1-on-5 and making terrible decisions.

For as passionate as Giannis is, he's not that smart of a player and he's definitely stubborn. I think you're always going to have a hard time convincing him he can't go 1-on-5 against a wall and score. When that starts happening, that's when you need a guy to take the ball away from him and settle things offensively. And that's when you need some better options/play-calling offensively.


Agreed. Just because Giannis occasionally can do ridiculous 1 on 5 things it doesn’t mean it’s smart to have that be your plan.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#331 » by rilamann » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:21 am

fansinceforever wrote:Brogdon was not a luxury. The Bucks were not good enough last year to go to the finals and they were even less equipped this season.

Scheme, preparedness for the Bubble, Giannis's offensive arsenal, failings of other complimentary pieces, etc are all issues. Absolutely. But we can't keep acting like letting Brogdon walk was not an enormous blunder, because it was.
Some Bucks fans are in denial about Brogdon, letting him walk was indeed an enormous blunder. I understand that maybe you can't keep everyone, but a player like Brogdon would be high on my list of guys to keep around if I was trying to win a championship. Not only is he a hell of a player, but he also brought the intangibles. One of the things I love about Brogdon is that he's a high IQ player with unshakable confidence. Brogdon is the type guy who could take a shot in the 4th qtr of game 7 of the finals with the same pressure that he would feel taking a shot in the 1st qtr of a preseason game. You want guys like that if you're trying to do big things. Not guys who will look great on a random night in December, then **** the bed in May (cough cough Bledsoe, cough cough Middleton, cough cough our entire roster).
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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#332 » by Pachinko_ » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:30 am

fansinceforever wrote:Brogdon was not a luxury. The Bucks were not good enough last year to go to the finals and they were even less equipped this season.

Scheme, preparedness for the Bubble, Giannis's offensive arsenal, failings of other complimentary pieces, etc are all issues. Absolutely. But we can't keep acting like letting Brogdon walk was not an enormous blunder, because it was.

Sorry what do you mean letting him walk? The way I understand it is he was effectively a free agent with a $21m a year price tag. He wasn't easier for us to sign than any other FA so why are we crying specifically about Brogdon and not all the other $21m FAs out there?

On top of it we were actually incentivised with a FRP to not sign him.

Wasn't that the situation or am I missing something important? (might be the case I'm not good with the NBA trade rules)
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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#333 » by machu46 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:32 am

Pachinko_ wrote:
fansinceforever wrote:Brogdon was not a luxury. The Bucks were not good enough last year to go to the finals and they were even less equipped this season.

Scheme, preparedness for the Bubble, Giannis's offensive arsenal, failings of other complimentary pieces, etc are all issues. Absolutely. But we can't keep acting like letting Brogdon walk was not an enormous blunder, because it was.

Sorry what do you mean letting him walk? The way I understand it is he was effectively a free agent with a $21m a year price tag. He wasn't easier for us to sign than any other FA so why are we crying specifically about Brogdon and not all the other $21m FAs out there?

On top of it we were actually incentivised with a FRP to not sign him.

Wasn't that the situation or am I missing something important? (might be the case I'm not good with the NBA trade rules)

He was a restricted free agent I think so we could have matched him if we wanted to


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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#334 » by MrHoneycutt » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:53 am

yannisk wrote:Goran Dragic comparing biggest difference on Defense against Jayson Tatum and Giannis Antetokounmpo

“I still think Giannis doesn’t have so much help,” Dragic said, via Jay King of The Athletic. “Tatum, if you look, he’s got around (him) Kemba and Brown. He’s the leader of that team, no doubt. We need to prepare for him, but we cannot just throw out the whole defense at him and forget about other guys.”


Through all the analysis and gnashing of teeth this sums it up pretty handily.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#335 » by Bucksfan28 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:07 am

In last year's ECF, Brogdon went 1/12 on second-half 3's, all of which were open or wide open - he was 1/9 in the four losses and didn't make one in any of those 4th quarters. His overall second-half FG% in the ECF was 34%.

Malcolm is a good player. The Bucks would be better w/ him. But I'm amazed at the pedestal he gets placed on sometimes, especially the reputation as some super clutch playoff performer.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#336 » by fansinceforever » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:15 am

Bucksfan28 wrote:In last year's ECF, Brogdon went 1/12 on second-half 3's, all of which were open or wide open - he was 1/9 in the four losses and didn't make one in any of those 4th quarters. His overall second-half FG% in the ECF was 34%.

Malcolm is a good player. The Bucks would be better w/ him. But I'm amazed at the pedestal he gets placed on sometimes, especially the reputation as some super clutch playoff performer.



Can't speak on behalf of the entire camp but my point isn't necessarily that his past playoff performances were so strong that we couldn't let him go.

I think, despite the RS, there's no way the FO and ownership could have thought that getting older and less athletic on the perimeter could have ended any other way than last szn did. All year, we talked about how DDVs emergence would be key because we all knew that in the playoffs, somebody was going to need to put the ball on the floor and create action. Damn near the entire board had already written off Bledsoe in that regard.

Even if you sign Brogdon at that number, he's still very tradeable. I know I'm beating a dead horse but thats generally what we do here when we think the FO/ownership completely screwed up.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#337 » by Bucksfan28 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:21 am

fansinceforever wrote:
Bucksfan28 wrote:In last year's ECF, Brogdon went 1/12 on second-half 3's, all of which were open or wide open - he was 1/9 in the four losses and didn't make one in any of those 4th quarters. His overall second-half FG% in the ECF was 34%.

Malcolm is a good player. The Bucks would be better w/ him. But I'm amazed at the pedestal he gets placed on sometimes, especially the reputation as some super clutch playoff performer.



Can't speak on behalf of the entire camp but my point isn't necessarily that his past playoff performances were so strong that we couldn't let him go.

I think, despite the RS, there's no way the FO and ownership could have thought that getting older and less athletic on the perimeter could have ended any other way than last szn did. All year, we talked about how DDVs emergence would be key because we all knew that in the playoffs, somebody was going to need to put the ball on the floor and create action. Damn near the entire board had already written off Bledsoe in that regard.

Even if you sign Brogdon at that number, he's still very tradeable. I know I'm beating a dead horse but thats generally what we do here when we think the FO/ownership completely screwed up.


Agree w/ your general point. I said this maybe yesterday, you can get someone to do what Malcolm would do for cheaper or find a combo for that price.

But yea top priority for me is getting younger and more athletic/versatile.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#338 » by Perishable517 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:39 am

machu46 wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:
fansinceforever wrote:Brogdon was not a luxury. The Bucks were not good enough last year to go to the finals and they were even less equipped this season.

Scheme, preparedness for the Bubble, Giannis's offensive arsenal, failings of other complimentary pieces, etc are all issues. Absolutely. But we can't keep acting like letting Brogdon walk was not an enormous blunder, because it was.

Sorry what do you mean letting him walk? The way I understand it is he was effectively a free agent with a $21m a year price tag. He wasn't easier for us to sign than any other FA so why are we crying specifically about Brogdon and not all the other $21m FAs out there?

On top of it we were actually incentivised with a FRP to not sign him.

Wasn't that the situation or am I missing something important? (might be the case I'm not good with the NBA trade rules)

He was a restricted free agent I think so we could have matched him if we wanted to


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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#339 » by Pachinko_ » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:50 am

machu46 wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:
fansinceforever wrote:Brogdon was not a luxury. The Bucks were not good enough last year to go to the finals and they were even less equipped this season.

Scheme, preparedness for the Bubble, Giannis's offensive arsenal, failings of other complimentary pieces, etc are all issues. Absolutely. But we can't keep acting like letting Brogdon walk was not an enormous blunder, because it was.

Sorry what do you mean letting him walk? The way I understand it is he was effectively a free agent with a $21m a year price tag. He wasn't easier for us to sign than any other FA so why are we crying specifically about Brogdon and not all the other $21m FAs out there?

On top of it we were actually incentivised with a FRP to not sign him.

Wasn't that the situation or am I missing something important? (might be the case I'm not good with the NBA trade rules)

He was a restricted free agent I think so we could have matched him if we wanted to


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Yeah thats what I'm saying, we could've matched him (and lose a draft pick) or matched any other FA's price
If we had $21m to spend why get Brogdon?
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Re: Giannis Thread - Met with ownership pg 6 

Post#340 » by 0BobLobLaw0 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:13 am

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