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Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday - Trade done - Bucks 2022 to CLE unprotected

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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#881 » by Bus or bust » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:11 pm

Jrue will be better than Bled and the Bogi thing is bad purely because of the optics. If it was just "supposed interest" it wouldn't be as bad but too have it be confirmed with details then backtracked and then investigated just looks so bad for the franchise. Fortunately though, Giannis probably doesn't care about optics that much and seems focused on family and vacation right now.

It is a steep price for Jrue but considering how Ainge was bidding similar packages you can assume other teams were as well. In a vacuum it looks bad but big picture we kept the Celtics and many other East teams from getting arguably the best player on the market this off season short of Harden which only helps our chances considering Bled is a negative come playoff time and Hill, while impactful, has shown a tendency to choke and doesn't have the two way impact Jrue does. Ultimately if Giannis signs the thing none of this really matters
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#882 » by RRyder823 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:12 pm

humanrefutation wrote:Jrue is going to be a much better fit with this team than Bledsoe. I don't have a problem with this move - even as I agree it was a steep price to pay - as I think it makes us better irrespective of what happened with Bogdan.


The thing with this trade isn't whether it makes us better. It does. Its that whether its good or epically bad entirely depends on the actions of another player.

If the Bucks FO knows Giannis is re-signing this trade isn't bad.

If they made this trade simply on the hope that it would get Giannis to re-sign every last one of them should be fired

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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#883 » by coolhandluke121 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:21 pm

Bus or bust wrote:It is a steep price for Jrue but considering how Ainge was bidding similar packages you can assume other teams were as well.


That Celtics package is not remotely similar. Bledsoe and Hill were both in the top 25 for RPM among pg's. Hayward was good too, but has a scary injury history and was making much more (presumably he doesn't want to stay in Boston so he didn't opt out until he realized they weren't going to be able to work out a trade).

More importantly, 3 picks in this draft are not nearly as good as #24, 2 unprotected future picks, and 2 unprotected pick swaps years from now. Considering all the things that could go wrong and cause at least a few of those picks to be really good ones, that's literally at least twice as enticing as what the Celtics offered, even though it is technically possible that the Bucks can keep their window open for 7 years despite Khris, Jrue, and Brook all being at least 29 and the Bucks having absolutely no young talent waiting in the wings besides maybe DDV.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#884 » by MiCo7 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:28 pm

>35 year old Lopez Middleton Jrue will keep us relevant?
coolhandluke121 wrote:
Bus or bust wrote:It is a steep price for Jrue but considering how Ainge was bidding similar packages you can assume other teams were as well.


That Celtics package is not remotely similar. Bledsoe and Hill were both in the top 25 for RPM among pg's. Hayward was good too, but has a scary injury history and was making much more (presumably he doesn't want to stay in Boston so he didn't opt out until he realized they weren't going to be able to work out a trade).

More importantly, 3 picks in this draft are not nearly as good as #24, 2 unprotected future picks, and 2 unprotected pick swaps years from now. Considering all the things that could go wrong and cause at least a few of those picks to be really good ones, that's literally at least twice as enticing as what the Celtics offered, even though it is technically possible that the Bucks can keep their window open for 7 years despite Khris, Jrue, and Brook all being at least 29 and the Bucks having absolutely no young talent waiting in the wings besides maybe DDV.


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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#885 » by coolhandluke121 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:35 pm

MiCo7 wrote:>35 year old Lopez Middleton Jrue will keep us relevant?
coolhandluke121 wrote:
Bus or bust wrote:It is a steep price for Jrue but considering how Ainge was bidding similar packages you can assume other teams were as well.


That Celtics package is not remotely similar. Bledsoe and Hill were both in the top 25 for RPM among pg's. Hayward was good too, but has a scary injury history and was making much more (presumably he doesn't want to stay in Boston so he didn't opt out until he realized they weren't going to be able to work out a trade).

More importantly, 3 picks in this draft are not nearly as good as #24, 2 unprotected future picks, and 2 unprotected pick swaps years from now. Considering all the things that could go wrong and cause at least a few of those picks to be really good ones, that's literally at least twice as enticing as what the Celtics offered, even though it is technically possible that the Bucks can keep their window open for 7 years despite Khris, Jrue, and Brook all being at least 29 and the Bucks having absolutely no young talent waiting in the wings besides maybe DDV.


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I'm not sure what you mean? I'm saying precisely the opposite - for the Pelicans, gambling on the Bucks' picks is far superior to the Celtics' offer precisely because it will be very hard for the Bucks to keep their window of contention open given the ages of literally every legitimate NBA rotation player currently on the team other than Giannis and DDV.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#886 » by DingleJerry » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:48 pm

Yea our picks package is massively better than what the Celts offer was. 3 1st sounds great, but two of them were in the upper 20s. Ours might be upper 20s but there is a legit chance they're not, whereas the Bos ones were known already and it's a bad draft. IMO it's not even close. Their worst case scenarios from us 24 + two late 1sts. Their best case from Bos was 15ish + 2 late 1sts in a bad draft. If we can trust the reports on the Bos offer and if we assume that was the runner up then we definitely agreed to more than was needed. Probably fair to say Bled/Hill both signed for 2 years on tradeable contracts is better than Hayward who might stay only one year and is a tough big contract to trade.

That said, our backs were against the wall and you see how he had no leverage. There's probably a few other shrewd things on contracts that were missed or not as sharply negotiated as possible, an example being that if the most anyone else could offer Khris was 4/140ish then why did we have to go sooo much more. Could probably talk similarly on some other contracts too. Seems our negotiation skills/poker face might not be top notch.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#887 » by MiCo7 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:50 pm

Makes sense i read wrong
coolhandluke121 wrote:
MiCo7 wrote:>35 year old Lopez Middleton Jrue will keep us relevant?
coolhandluke121 wrote:
That Celtics package is not remotely similar. Bledsoe and Hill were both in the top 25 for RPM among pg's. Hayward was good too, but has a scary injury history and was making much more (presumably he doesn't want to stay in Boston so he didn't opt out until he realized they weren't going to be able to work out a trade).

More importantly, 3 picks in this draft are not nearly as good as #24, 2 unprotected future picks, and 2 unprotected pick swaps years from now. Considering all the things that could go wrong and cause at least a few of those picks to be really good ones, that's literally at least twice as enticing as what the Celtics offered, even though it is technically possible that the Bucks can keep their window open for 7 years despite Khris, Jrue, and Brook all being at least 29 and the Bucks having absolutely no young talent waiting in the wings besides maybe DDV.


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I'm not sure what you mean? I'm saying precisely the opposite - for the Pelicans, gambling on the Bucks' picks is far superior to the Celtics' offer precisely because it will be very hard for the Bucks to keep their window of contention open given the ages of literally every legitimate NBA rotation player currently on the team other than Giannis and DDV.


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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#888 » by LuessiT » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:54 pm

Kinda hope this falls through too and we go after Harden.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#889 » by Chad34 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:57 pm

LuessiT wrote:Kinda hope this falls through too and we go after Harden.

would it gives us more flexibility to wait and make trades at the deadline
Still holding out hope we pull off a double s&t for Bogdan :lol:
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#890 » by Chad34 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:57 pm

Chad34 wrote:
LuessiT wrote:Kinda hope this falls through too and we go after Harden.

would it gives us more flexibility to wait and make trades at the deadline

run it back with a few tweaks and make more moves at the deadline
Still holding out hope we pull off a double s&t for Bogdan :lol:
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#891 » by tski1972 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:00 pm

LuessiT wrote:Kinda hope this falls through too and we go after Harden.

I don’t see how it can because Denver ended up with the #24 pick.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#892 » by Chad34 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:04 pm

tski1972 wrote:
LuessiT wrote:Kinda hope this falls through too and we go after Harden.

I don’t see how it can because Denver ended up with the #24 pick.

is it officially there's yet?
Still holding out hope we pull off a double s&t for Bogdan :lol:
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#893 » by LuessiT » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:04 pm

tski1972 wrote:
LuessiT wrote:Kinda hope this falls through too and we go after Harden.

I don’t see how it can because Denver ended up with the #24 pick.


Yeah realistically it won't unless there's a serious reason (failed medical) but just saying.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#894 » by ABucksFan » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:11 pm

Before Butler explosion in playoffs I had him slightly above Jrue in player rankings. I honestly think Jrue in the east can have a Butler like effect on the team.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#895 » by coolhandluke121 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:32 pm

tski1972 wrote:
LuessiT wrote:Kinda hope this falls through too and we go after Harden.

I don’t see how it can because Denver ended up with the #24 pick.


The Bucks picked the player New Orleans told them to, which is probably the player Denver wanted, but if someone fails a physical, I think it's safe to assume that the Bucks will end up with RJ Hampton for now. The delay in making this trade official makes one wonder how those physicals are going.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#896 » by coolhandluke121 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:41 pm

Some very interesting history with regard to Jrue's previous trade and the injury background:

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/philadelphia-sixers/report-sixers-fined-failure-disclose-jrue-holidays-injuries

Philly was fined for not disclosing his stress fractures, which were a very complicated situation early on in his time with New Orleans. I knew there had been something like that, but I had forgotten the details. If his physical shows signs of any structural issues, despite his ability to perform the last few years, the Bucks would be well within their rights to cancel the trade.

ETA: Or just renegotiate the trade if Jrue fails a physical. Bledsoe, Ersan sign-and-trade, #24, and one pick for Jrue.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#897 » by mkegb » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:55 pm

Why hasn’t this trade been announced? Still negotiating?
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#898 » by dedned » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:04 pm

mkegb wrote:Why hasn’t this trade been announced? Still negotiating?

Think it could be NO trying to flip bledsoe and hill.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#899 » by tski1972 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:08 am

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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#900 » by Frank Nova » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:12 am

tski1972 wrote:
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