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Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday - Trade done - Bucks 2022 to CLE unprotected

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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#941 » by Mihai » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:02 pm

skones wrote:
CharityStripe34 wrote:In no universe is Bledsoe as good as Holiday. Especially in the post-season.

I wouldn't be shocked if in the Gianni/front-office meeting, Gianni told them "get me a PG who can shoot and throw me a decent lob."


So they went out and got a guy who shot:

.356
.337
.325
.353

from distance to improve from:

.335
.347
.329
.344


Have you seen how hesitant Bledsoe is with his shooting? He demands no respect from opponents when pulling from deep.
Holiday can create for himself and pull up from anywhere. He is a constant threat.
Bled was not. It will be a great improvement if Holiday comes here motivated and in good shape! He’s miles ahead offensively regardless of percentages looking similar.
We definitely improved creatively and in the confidence department.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#942 » by ShootingtheJ » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:41 am

skones wrote:
CharityStripe34 wrote:In no universe is Bledsoe as good as Holiday. Especially in the post-season.

I wouldn't be shocked if in the Gianni/front-office meeting, Gianni told them "get me a PG who can shoot and throw me a decent lob."


So they went out and got a guy who shot:

.356
.337
.325
.353

from distance to improve from:

.335
.347
.329
.344



I think it's important to at least look at the catch and shoot numbers. Jrue was forced to shoot 3s off the dribble way to often, a byproduct of playing in a bad offense with no consideration of spacing. Players generally shot worse off the dribble, and Jrue is one of them.

His catch and shoot numbers are actually good, so look for him to have a career year shooting the 3 by playing in a well spaced offense, plus the gravity of Giannis.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#943 » by soxperry » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:50 am

Was thinking about Jrue's incentives issue and the hard cap. I wonder if we couod offer him an extension that restructures and turns some of that into guaranteed money to give us more flexibility now and also lock him up longer term.

Have got to assume he was very receptive to extending or we would not have traded for him.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#944 » by skones » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:56 am

ShootingtheJ wrote:
His catch and shoot numbers are actually good, so look for him to have a career year shooting the 3 by playing in a well spaced offense, plus the gravity of Giannis.


They aren't though.

Catch and Shoot Threes:

36.6%
39%
29.3%
26.4%

for

30.1%
39.5%
35.4%
36.4%

Bledsoe has been awful the last two seasons, but nothing about Holiday's numbers from a catch and shoot standpoint are "actually good." In fact, over the past two seasons, he's been about as average as it gets. Is that an improvement over what Bledsoe has been the last two years? Obviously yes. Are we aiming for "average" catch and shoot players? Shouldn't be. Is the upgrade to average in the most important category to Giannis worth the capital invested? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#945 » by skones » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:59 am

soxperry wrote:Was thinking about Jrue's incentives issue and the hard cap. I wonder if we couod offer him an extension that restructures and turns some of that into guaranteed money to give us more flexibility now and also lock him up longer term.

Have got to assume he was very receptive to extending or we would not have traded for him.


You can't do that in the NBA. Renegotiations in the NBA can be used to add salary, they cannot be used to give a player a pay cut in order to give your team more cap room. Only teams under the cap can renegotiate anyway.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#946 » by Ryan5UW » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:59 am

soxperry wrote:Was thinking about Jrue's incentives issue and the hard cap. I wonder if we couod offer him an extension that restructures and turns some of that into guaranteed money to give us more flexibility now and also lock him up longer term.

Have got to assume he was very receptive to extending or we would not have traded for him.


Given how this offseason has gone I’d be impressed if they’ve even talked to him at this point.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#947 » by Pachinko_ » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:00 am

I think for us to even make the finals Jrue needs to peak in the next 2-3 years. Which is far from guaranteed but also not unheard of for a PG his age. It's a big risk. At some point you have to push your chips somewhere and take a risk.

Remember when Kawhi was traded to the Raptors against his will and for a couple of weeks people were betting he will not even show up in Canada at all? Different kind of risk but yeah, you gotta take it.

Crossing fingers and hoping Jrue is at least healthy when it matters.
By the way, remember when we traded for Bledsoe and didn't know if his knee would hold up?
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#948 » by Prez » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:09 am

I think it was a substantial overpay (though kinda justifiable if it is a big factor in Giannis signing the supermax) but any regular season comparison of Jrue and Bled is just worthless. Nobody is disputing that Bled was a good RS player, most would argue very good, fringe all-star level in the East a couple years. But he has completely **** himself in 3 straight postseasons. Unless you think Jrue is similarly unreliable, it's not a worthwhile comparison going by RS numbers. Jrue might be past it by a bit and I'm not expecting this moving forward but the thought of Bledsoe doing even 70-80% of what Jrue did in the postseason in 2018 is honestly hilarious.

Jrue was also a sneaky good iso player this past year. In addition to being a better C&S guy (28-29% vs 35-36% is not a negligible difference) he gives us another shot creator in a way Bled had zero shot of being against any sort of playoff defense.

It's really tough to judge this right now without seeing it play out. I trust Jrue soooo much more in a playoff setting than Bled but we can't know until we actually get there.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#949 » by buckbeer » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:23 am

Pelican fans have been calling Jrue the most underrated player in the NBA for years.

New Orleans Pelicans: Jrue Holiday is Criminally Underrated
https://pelicandebrief.com/2020/06/23/new-orleans-pelicans-jrue-holiday-rank/#:~:text=As%20a%20New%20Orleans%20Pelicans,valuable%20players%20in%20today's%20game.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#950 » by buckbeer » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:29 am

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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#951 » by raferfenix » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:54 pm

Whether Holiday can take his game up a notch playing with Giannis and Middleton in Bud’s system is a significant variable.

He’ll definitely get more wide open looks and lanes to the hoop that he has in some time.

It’s possible Regular Season Bledsoe vs Jrue is close. But it also might not be when we actually get to see Holiday play here.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#952 » by Balls2TheWalls » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:58 pm

raferfenix wrote:Whether Holiday can take his game up a notch playing with Giannis and Middleton in Bud’s system is a significant variable.

He’ll definitely get more wide open looks and lanes to the hoop that he has in some time.

It’s possible Regular Season Bledsoe vs Jrue is close. But it also might not be when we actually get to see Holiday play here.


I said it in the other post, but I'll say it here. The benefit is consistency. He is going to give you what you wish Bledsoe gave you on a night to night basis instead of swinging wildy from Good Eric to Bad Eric. The difference in the Bucks when you saw 3 stars on the team compared to when you saw 2 (or 1 when Middleton was in a funk) was monstrous. He plays under control. He plays great defense. I think we are easily the best defensive team in the league on paper with a starting lineup of Jrue/DDV/Mid/Giannis/Blopez.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#953 » by randy84 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:01 pm

I think people are missing the point. Jrue may be an upgrade to Bledsoe in the playoffs but he essentially has the same type of game as Bledsoe. I don't think those games work well with Giannis. You need a floor spacing PG that can consistently hit threes.

https://hoopshabit.com/2020/11/17/milwaukee-bucks-jrue-holiday-bledsoe/
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#954 » by FrieAaron » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:11 pm

randy84 wrote:I think people are missing the point. Jrue may be an upgrade to Bledsoe in the playoffs but he essentially has the same type of game as Bledsoe. I don't think those games work well with Giannis. You need a floor spacing PG that can consistently hit threes.

https://hoopshabit.com/2020/11/17/milwaukee-bucks-jrue-holiday-bledsoe/


No one is missing the point. Bledsoe's production fell off a cliff in all his playoff appearances with us. If it had not, we'd probably have a championship now and he would still be on the team. That's why this was done. They needed an upgrade at PG and hopefully one who wouldn't underperform in the playoffs.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#955 » by theFireBlanket » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:16 pm

This isn't just a trade for the post season. Jrue is longer, ranks 22nd inRPM last year to Bledsoe's 46th. He's a lot smoother & a better defender. The
positive difference is going to be obvious all year.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#956 » by Ayt » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:16 pm

Just a reminder of how dreadful Bledsoe was when it mattered.

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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#957 » by MiCo7 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:19 pm

Getting rid of Drew Bledsoe is the biggest move of the year.
Ayt wrote:Just a reminder of how dreadful Bledsoe was when it mattered.

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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#958 » by LUKE23 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:19 pm

Also lets remember Jrue is considerably better on Bled on catch and shoot 3's. Bled is better at pull up 3s. Which is more plentiful in the playoffs?
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#959 » by Licensed to Il » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:21 pm

MiCo7 wrote:Getting rid of Drew Bledsoe is the biggest move of the year.
Ayt wrote:Just a reminder of how dreadful Bledsoe was when it mattered.

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Versus the Raps:

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Ha. The last team that got rid of drew bledsoe found tom brady.
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Re: Bucks acquire Jrue Holiday 

Post#960 » by MiCo7 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:25 pm

Good point. Merrill lol?
Licensed to Il wrote:
MiCo7 wrote:Getting rid of Drew Bledsoe is the biggest move of the year.
Ayt wrote:Just a reminder of how dreadful Bledsoe was when it mattered.

Versus the Heat:

Image

Versus the Raps:

Image


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Ha. The last team that got rid of drew bledsoe found tom brady.


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