#60 - Sam Merrill - Utah State

[ReasonablySober]

I know... we can't though. You just can't count on rookies in the play offs, they are terrible 9 times out of 10. We just have to take our chances with the vets, and the rookies will get the trash minutes.
Maybe next year.

Tyler Herro and Duncan Robinson both started against the Bucks in the playoffs.

Nunn, as well.

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Robinson wasn't a rookie last year.

[skones]

Tyler Herro and Duncan Robinson both started against the Bucks in the playoffs.

Nunn, as well.

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Robinson wasn't a rookie last year.

And Nunn barely saw the court in the playoffs against us. Without checking, no way did he start.

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[Rstuedes24]

Merrill looked really composed last night. I like that he didn’t force anything. We should be running more plays to get him open. When he plays with the scrubs, everyone tries to get their own. I’d put him in instead of Pat tonight and see what he can do.

I think he could be what we looked for in Korver last season with the potential to do and be more.

I also don’t quite understand the whole vets get the minutes ordeal. If we see something in Merrill, wouldn’t we rather see if we can accelerate that/find out if he’s a keeper while the games aren’t as important? Even if we can split pats minutes up with him and sneak a few extra in here and there that would be great.

[agiaco]

Merrill looked really composed last night. I like that he didn’t force anything. We should be running more plays to get him open. When he plays with the scrubs, everyone tries to get their own. I’d put him in instead of Pat tonight and see what he can do.

I think he could be what we looked for in Korver last season with the potential to do and be more.

I also don’t quite understand the whole vets get the minutes ordeal. If we see something in Merrill, wouldn’t we rather see if we can accelerate that/find out if he’s a keeper while the games aren’t as important? Even if we can split pats minutes up with him and sneak a few extra in here and there that would be great.

Definitely agree. I think it's more about getting his feet wet little by little and seeing if some of the younger guys can get worked into the rotation. There's a lot of guys vying for meaningful minutes. Planet Pat has the upper-hand for reasons that he shouldn't, but I like what I see from Merrill. He could be a Duncan Robinson type find if he can find his way into Bud's rotation. Hopefully he can get some time earlier in games when it's not just garbage minutes. It's easier to shoot and score when there's zero pressure on you.

[skones]

Merrill looked really composed last night. I like that he didn’t force anything. We should be running more plays to get him open. When he plays with the scrubs, everyone tries to get their own. I’d put him in instead of Pat tonight and see what he can do.

I think he could be what we looked for in Korver last season with the potential to do and be more.

I also don’t quite understand the whole vets get the minutes ordeal. If we see something in Merrill, wouldn’t we rather see if we can accelerate that/find out if he’s a keeper while the games aren’t as important? Even if we can split pats minutes up with him and sneak a few extra in here and there that would be great.

This team wants to be a championship team. The guys who are that level DO NOT want to be dealing with developmental minutes for a 2nd round pick, they want to win games. If you're rebuilding, sure, but that's not where we're at. You're going to keep seeing Nwora and Merrill sprinkled in for a couple of months yet, ESPECIALLY given the nature of how short the offseason was. I know people want to see them, but they're more green behind the ears than your typical rookies would be at this stage with less time with the team. Patience.

Making them earn it in practice will only make them better.

[neiLz]

There's going to be blowouts all year . I think we just keep letting the young guys develop and play them in garbage time until the staff thinks they're ready. If they contribute anything come playoff time that would be a huge bonus.

[ReasonablySober]

Merrill looked really composed last night. I like that he didn’t force anything. We should be running more plays to get him open. When he plays with the scrubs, everyone tries to get their own. I’d put him in instead of Pat tonight and see what he can do.

I think he could be what we looked for in Korver last season with the potential to do and be more.

I also don’t quite understand the whole vets get the minutes ordeal. If we see something in Merrill, wouldn’t we rather see if we can accelerate that/find out if he’s a keeper while the games aren’t as important? Even if we can split pats minutes up with him and sneak a few extra in here and there that would be great.

This team wants to be a championship team. The guys who are that level DO NOT want to be dealing with developmental minutes for a 2nd round pick, they want to win games. If you're rebuilding, sure, but that's not where we're at. You're going to keep seeing Nwora and Merrill sprinkled in for a couple of months yet, ESPECIALLY given the nature of how short the offseason was. I know people want to see them, but they're more green behind the ears than your typical rookies would be at this stage with less time with the team. Patience.

Making them earn it in practice will only make them better.

I don't agree at all. These aren't 19 year old freshman. These two guys are in the same vein as someone like Brogdon. Upperclassmen with NBA ready abilities.

Further, if the last two seasons have proven anything it's that the regular season means dick in the grand scheme of things. It's way more important to get these two guys meaningful minutes than it is making them end of the bench guys you only see in blowouts. They need all the experience they can get before the playoffs start.

[emunney]

Jordan Bell played for the Warriors as a rookie because his existing skillset matched their need, and he was able to soak up a few minutes in a limited role. I would argue that Merrill is not only a better player but a better fit than Bell was for the Warriors. That said, we signed Forbes for that role, so the same opportunity might not be there.

[M-C-G]

If both these guys can keep shooting well and not standing out as liabilities on defense, keep giving them minutes.

Any blowouts, give them minutes. Throughout the season, try to make their minutes more and more meaningful until you have an idea what you are getting come playoffs. Given their demeanors, I don't feel like these guys will choke shooting wise in the playoffs. But there is a long way to go from here to there.

[Ruzious]

I think he could be what we looked for in Korver last season with the potential to do and be more.

I also don’t quite understand the whole vets get the minutes ordeal. If we see something in Merrill, wouldn’t we rather see if we can accelerate that/find out if he’s a keeper while the games aren’t as important? Even if we can split pats minutes up with him and sneak a few extra in here and there that would be great.

This team wants to be a championship team. The guys who are that level DO NOT want to be dealing with developmental minutes for a 2nd round pick, they want to win games. If you're rebuilding, sure, but that's not where we're at. You're going to keep seeing Nwora and Merrill sprinkled in for a couple of months yet, ESPECIALLY given the nature of how short the offseason was. I know people want to see them, but they're more green behind the ears than your typical rookies would be at this stage with less time with the team. Patience.

Making them earn it in practice will only make them better.

I don't agree at all. These aren't 19 year old freshman. These two guys are in the same vein as someone like Brogdon. Upperclassmen with NBA ready abilities.

Further, if the last two seasons have proven anything it's that the regular season means dick in the grand scheme of things. It's way more important to get these two guys meaningful minutes than it is making them end of the bench guys you only see in blowouts. They need all the experience they can get before the playoffs start.

Not to mention, there's not going to be significant practice time - with the compressed schedule, and the smarter teams will reduce minutes for their better players when possible. For example, a lot of teams are giving certain key veterans the 2nd game off in back-to-back games. The Bucks lack of quality depth likely makes that unlikely, so it's important to reduce starters' minutes in other ways. So take the opportunities to develop the rookies who can become better than the mediocre veteran backups by the time playoffs come around.

[skones]

I don't agree at all. These aren't 19 year old freshman. These two guys are in the same vein as someone like Brogdon. Upperclassmen with NBA ready abilities.

Further, if the last two seasons have proven anything it's that the regular season means dick in the grand scheme of things. It's way more important to get these two guys meaningful minutes than it is making them end of the bench guys you only see in blowouts. They need all the experience they can get before the playoffs start.

I don't agree with you at all. Saying these guys are in the "same vein" as someone like Brogdon is a VERY rosey outlook. Not all old Seniors come into the NBA ready to go on day 1. If they were, you'd see a lot more of them having a lot more success, but you don't. It's because Brogdon is an outlier. A guy playing four years of college ball is not indicative of NBA readiness or success.

Take 2019 For Example:
Mathisse Thybulle
Dylan Windler
Justin James
Eric Paschall
Admiral Schofield
Terance Mann
Quinndary Weatherspoon
Jarrell Brantley
Justin Wright Foreman
Marial Shayok

Or 2018:
Grayson Allen
Chandler Hutchison
Jevon Carter
Devonte Graham
Svi Mykhailiuk
Alize Johnson
Vincent Edwards
Devon Hall
Kevin Hervey
Thomas Welsh
George King

NONE of these guys were 19 year old freshman. ALL of these guys were college seniors. How many of them are you penciling into a Championship Caliber NBA rotation because of their "readiness?" How many into a playoff rotation? How many into a rotation period? Look, I like what I've seen, but I also see the value in a slow ramp up in the NBA. Slowly give a guy what he can handle. A big part of coaching is managing egos, expectations, player confidence. On the flip side, you have team chemistry. If you're an athlete, and your coach says, this guy has potential, and you're playing, and this guy just isn't it right now, are you REALLY not going to be frustrated at all ends because "regular season means dick?" If it costs you games here and there? Absolutely not, because it's not how any of these guys are wired, particularly Giannis.

But because Merrill and Nwora are Milwaukee Bucks in a weak at the top end draft, we're turning 45 and 60 into legitimate rotation players on day 1? Do you hear how that sounds?

I'm not advocating we don't give them minutes. I'm saying you don't throw them into the fire on day one and see what happens. The ramp up. We've played 4 games, there are 68 left. We've had a very very short TC and Preseason. These guys are still learning and fine tuning their play in team concepts. As Ruzious mentioned above, we are also operating with a compressed schedule which ALSO delays the learning curve.

I've heard it before. We heard it with Brown, we heard it with Wolters, Inglis, Lamb, Leuer, Hobson, Gallon, Meeks, JOB, Noel, Szewczyk. You hit on Brogdon, Moute, Sessions, Ilyasova, but there are more guys who are gone with the wind a year after guys hear are beating their drums.

[ReasonablySober]

I'm not saying you give them 25 MPG. I'm saying meaningful minutes with other nightly rotational players.

This team wants to be a championship team. The guys who are that level DO NOT want to be dealing with developmental minutes for a 2nd round pick, they want to win games.

But furthermore, who in the hell are Augustin, Pat, Portis, DDV, DJW, and Forbes? Who gives a **** what they want? We've got a couple rookie contract guys and veteran minimum types. No one on that bench is somehow worthy of playing ahead of anyone who's been outperforming them.

[skones]

I'm not saying you give them 25 MPG. I'm saying meaningful minutes with other nightly rotational players.

This team wants to be a championship team. The guys who are that level DO NOT want to be dealing with developmental minutes for a 2nd round pick, they want to win games.

But furthermore, who in the hell are Augustin, Pat, Portis, DDV, DJW, and Forbes? Who gives a **** what they want? We've got a couple rookie contract guys and veteran minimum types. No one on that bench is somehow worthy of playing ahead of anyone who's been outperforming them.

Augustin, Portis, and DDV have established themselves as legitimate NBA rotational players. Even Connaughton has accomplished far more than the guys you're ready to hand over minutes to, and I flat out dislike Connaughton as a player. We talk about kneejerk reactions all the time on this board. You've seen about 58 minutes of play against NBA scrubs. That's it. Pump the brakes.

I know this is the Merrill thread, but Nwora looked like ass against scrubs last night. That's what happens when these guys get extended minutes. They show their warts.

[skones]

Jordan Bell played for the Warriors as a rookie because his existing skillset matched their need, and he was able to soak up a few minutes in a limited role. I would argue that Merrill is not only a better player but a better fit than Bell was for the Warriors. That said, we signed Forbes for that role, so the same opportunity might not be there.

And now Jordan Bell is out of the league because his "existing skillset matching their need" wasn't good enough.

[ShootingtheJ]

Both rookies are on Forbes heels, as it doesn't take much to be an improvement over him. One of them will beat him out in the next few weeks. They both have the one skill he has, but the rooks have potential for more.

[ReasonablySober]

Augustin, Portis, and DDV have established themselves as legitimate NBA rotational players.

You wouldn't know that by their contracts, when they signed, or the fanbases of any team they've played for. Add Forbes and Craig to that too.

These are known guys. I actually like Portis and I'm fine with him being a six(ish) man. But they're not so good that you automatically play them ahead of younger guys who flash important skills the Bucks need.

[skones]

Augustin, Portis, and DDV have established themselves as legitimate NBA rotational players.

You wouldn't know that by their contracts, when they signed, or the fanbases of any team they've played for. Add Forbes and Craig to that too.

These are known guys. I actually like Portis and I'm fine with him being a six(ish) man. But they're not so good that you automatically play them ahead of younger guys who flash important skills the Bucks need.

Huh? Augustin hasn't put together a 13 year NBA career with 320 starts under his belt? This isn't the 6th season for Portis? Those two guys specifically have carved out a place in the NBA. Forbes himself is in his 5th season after being passed over out of State. But hey, you've got 4 games of garbage time to ease them into the NBA with little practice time AND THAT IS NOT ENOUGH.

People like to do this. They like to bitch and moan about playing time early without seeing how the rotation eventually hammers out. Patience.

[ReasonablySober]

I honestly don't know what you're arguing anymore. If it's that the Bucks' rotation is set and the kids should remain at the end of the bench, I'll just have to disagree.

[skones]

I honestly don't know what you're arguing anymore. If it's that the Bucks' rotation is set and the kids should remain at the end of the bench, I'll just have to disagree.

Well, I guess, I don't know what you're reading, because that's not even close to what I've said. You're the one who replied to me. I've been pretty straight forward. In that post I literally said, make them earn it, patience, to which you came in saying "you don't agree at all." So k.

[emunney]

Jordan Bell played for the Warriors as a rookie because his existing skillset matched their need, and he was able to soak up a few minutes in a limited role. I would argue that Merrill is not only a better player but a better fit than Bell was for the Warriors. That said, we signed Forbes for that role, so the same opportunity might not be there.

And now Jordan Bell is out of the league because his "existing skillset matching their need" wasn't good enough.

Yet they won a championship with him playing as a rookie.