Bucks sign Forbes!

[bucksbrewers3]

Basically you can run the same stuff that you ran for Korver for Forbes.

Watch on YouTube

Exactly and derozan had two ppl collapses on him. Imagine giannis and the free looks Forbes will get when 5 guys collapse.

[MiCo7]

Really solid post and makes sense for a fit with the Bucks. Bud will be much harder on him.

i only post or read the general board occassionally but i what to repost these comments from the suprs moderator from there. really gives me a good sense and balance of the controversy regarding him with the spurs fans. figured not all of you would read this so im going to repost in our thread.

cliff notes..... he was a really fine contributor in 20 mpg his 2nd year there off the bench and the resentment grew over role, perhaps a lack of development, but not so much ability. alot of last year especially was blamed on pop and rotations as much as forbes himself.

I can't help but laugh because Spurs fans here are completely right about Bryn, but I can't help but feel happy for Bryn as well. For someone who went from undrafted to a starter (largely by default, but that's another story) and from a guaranteed pay raise two seasons ago to last season seeing his stock drop to no re-sign, Bryn has landed in a perfect spot for his game and for Bucks' needs.

He will be back to a more streamlined role of hitting 3s, something he did quite well two seasons ago, and dropped last season due to a bigger role and I think perhaps some pressure to keep up the pace from the previous season. Not to worry, Bucks fans, this isn't anxiety on the big stage. He does not hesitate when brought in late or key stages to let it fly.

He was a small guard who didn't have the stamina to last a whole season (famous rookie/sophmore pro wall) and got pushed around when he drove so he hit the gym hard, bulked up, and started most of two seasons. He also developed a nice floater in the key should defenders get too tight on him.

It's his poor D - there's no sugar-coating it, his poor handles beyond a few bounces, and sometimes weird passing decisions that really stood out. We needed more from him, and those aspects of his game didn't really follow. By the bubble, he simply got passed over in the rotation by the more versatile two-way young guys we have coming up.

But on a team with contender aspirations where the D is solid and Sparty needs to come in and hit daggers? Yes, that's a sweet spot for him. I also like that he's going into a place with a familiar culture similar to that of the Spurs with Bud at the helm.

He's a humble guy, great in the locker room, is positive, even-keeled, has some spunk, and is a very hard worker. He is a need-a-bucket guy, floor spacer, will do what is asked of him on O, a great fit for a team with a specific need. Treat him well, Bucks fans. Best of luck, Sparty!

The Bucks have rebounded really well with Bryn and Craig signings. Well done. Good luck!

and a follow up....

We don’t hate him .. We hate how much leeway he gets from Pop .. If white , Murray , Walker make a mistake they will get pulled, Forbes is allowed to play no matter how many defensive mistakes he makes ..

You should read this https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spurstalk.com/bryn-forbes-san-antonio-spurs-failed-experiment/amp/


Truly awful coaching from pop last year

The details is where I split with other Spurs fans about this Bryn starting issue. It's not as simple as other guards getting pulled. And I would say that DJ hardly got pulled, but was given a lot of leeway to play through mistakes. Walker would get pulled, yes. But that's because he needed to learn that there are consequences for defensive mistakes,like don't give space to a hot 3-point shooter, don't take plays off. Walker didn't like it, but is quoted as saying that in retrospect he needed it and it made him a better player. Later in the season, Pop would put Walker in late in games for D. Sometimes for DD. That's a testament to increased trust in Walker making the right play. Look at Walker's minutes through the year. He was brought along just right.

Because Walker wasn't ready, we needed White to come off the bench for a balance in the roster. Had we started DJ/White that would have left a Hobbit-sized, D-deficient back court of Bryn and Patty.

People forget that two seasons ago, Bryn also started and things went far better. He was alongside White then. So it's about more than just Bryn sucks on D or supposed awful coaching from Pop. Coaching is about bringing up along those who will eventually get more minutes, about managing situations (DJ who didn't take being benched for eight games when not playing well), balancing the roster so that there's a fit and not as much of a drop off from one unit to another. We were challenged for various reasons last season - sudden new starter Trey (moving Jakob back to the bench when he previously started next to LMA), essentially not being able to use a player like we expected (Carroll who proven absolutely useless), etc.

There's layers to this. There was A LOT to keep figuring out and develop, and while that was going on, whatever could remain steady did, it's just that things didn't work as well with Bryn and DJ as it did with Bryn and White the year before.

Anyway, this is good for the Spurs, good for Bryn, and good for the Bucks.

Sent from my SM-T510 using RealGM mobile app

[Ruzious]

I haven't watched him much but this vid...

Watch on YouTube

Wrong video. My bad.

It'd help if you say that on the 1st post - so people don't waste 4 minutes wondering what they missed.

[SupremeHustle]

I haven't watched him much but this vid...

Watch on YouTube

Wrong video. My bad.

It'd help if you say that on the 1st post - so people don't waste 4 minutes wondering what they missed.

Dang dude. Can't even apologize without getting yelled at.

[Bigfactsstackz]

Whether he starts or not, we really just need him for 22-27 minutes a game and those are the minutes he will get due to his shooting ability. He’s not a great defender, but if Pop was starting him, he must be passable

Exactly. And those Spurs teams never had the same defensive identity as other Spurs teams. Having Pop as his former coach and being in a team with a core defensive identity should help bring out the best of him defensively. I could see him being an average to slightly below average defender in our team which is fine when you consider what he brings offensively. I mean we had games where Korver got 20+ mins and he is a negative on D no matter how you slice it so I see this as an upgrade on that front.

He is not passable defensively... Pop is just obsessed with the dude ..

“ The problems with starting Forbes begin on the defensive end. At 6-foot-2 and 205 pounds, he’s overwhelmed by opposing shooting guards each and every night. While there’s plenty of footage of Forbes getting scored on by talented guards — including last game out when CJ McCollum of the Portland Trail Blazers went for 32 points and seven assists — what has really stood out this year is that virtually everyone he defends attacks him without an ounce of fear”


“Impact of Bryn Forbes and his Lack of Defense
In theory, with Forbes starting next to Dejounte Murray, San Antonio could simply have Forbes defend the other team’s weakest guard. However, that doesn’t work in reality because Forbes isn’t quick enough to stay with the vast majority point guards. Moreover, Forbes can rarely switch with DeMar DeRozan because his small frame makes it impossible for him to defend any of the league’s forwards.”


“Looking at the statistics, Forbes’ defensive shortcomings stick out like a sore thumb. When he’s on the court, opponents score 116.3 points per 100 possessions — far and away the worst mark on the team. When he’s on the bench, opponents score 103.4 points per 100 possessions. Stated differently, the Spurs operate like a top ten defense in the NBA when Forbes is on the bench but become the worst defensive team in the league when Forbes is on the court.”


Bryn Forbes Dragging Down Others
Considering the Spurs are the worst defensively when Forbes is on the court and the worst offensively when Forbes is on the court, it’s no surprise that his backcourt mates are struggling when he’s on the court — but the numbers are still illuminating.

“When Murray plays with Forbes, the Spurs are outscored by 10.1 points per 100 possessions. When Murray is in without Forbes, the Spurs outscore opponents by 11.9 points — a 22-point swing. With Derrick White and Forbes together, the Spurs are outscored by 14.5 points per 100 possessions. Without Forbes, White and the Spurs outscore opponents by 8.6 points — a 23.1-point swing. Patty Mills goes from being outscored with Forbes by 26.2 points to outscoring opponents by 15.0 points — a 41.2-point swing.”


Dude is a huge negative in every way possible ...Unlike pop tho Bud will bench him

[ShootingtheJ]

While Forbes finished his college career with Michigan State, I watched him live numerous times when he was with Cleveland State. He's added some muscle since then, he needed it.

[Ruzious]

Wrong video. My bad.

It'd help if you say that on the 1st post - so people don't waste 4 minutes wondering what they missed.

Dang dude. Can't even apologize without getting yelled at.

C'mon, don't be softer than Portis' defense. Btw, you still haven't deleted it or at least put a warning on it.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Whether he starts or not, we really just need him for 22-27 minutes a game and those are the minutes he will get due to his shooting ability. He’s not a great defender, but if Pop was starting him, he must be passable

Exactly. And those Spurs teams never had the same defensive identity as other Spurs teams. Having Pop as his former coach and being in a team with a core defensive identity should help bring out the best of him defensively. I could see him being an average to slightly below average defender in our team which is fine when you consider what he brings offensively. I mean we had games where Korver got 20+ mins and he is a negative on D no matter how you slice it so I see this as an upgrade on that front.

He is not passable defensively... Pop is just obsessed with the dude ..

“ The problems with starting Forbes begin on the defensive end. At 6-foot-2 and 205 pounds, he’s overwhelmed by opposing shooting guards each and every night. While there’s plenty of footage of Forbes getting scored on by talented guards — including last game out when CJ McCollum of the Portland Trail Blazers went for 32 points and seven assists — what has really stood out this year is that virtually everyone he defends attacks him without an ounce of fear”


“Impact of Bryn Forbes and his Lack of Defense
In theory, with Forbes starting next to Dejounte Murray, San Antonio could simply have Forbes defend the other team’s weakest guard. However, that doesn’t work in reality because Forbes isn’t quick enough to stay with the vast majority point guards. Moreover, Forbes can rarely switch with DeMar DeRozan because his small frame makes it impossible for him to defend any of the league’s forwards.”


“Looking at the statistics, Forbes’ defensive shortcomings stick out like a sore thumb. When he’s on the court, opponents score 116.3 points per 100 possessions — far and away the worst mark on the team. When he’s on the bench, opponents score 103.4 points per 100 possessions. Stated differently, the Spurs operate like a top ten defense in the NBA when Forbes is on the bench but become the worst defensive team in the league when Forbes is on the court.”


Bryn Forbes Dragging Down Others
Considering the Spurs are the worst defensively when Forbes is on the court and the worst offensively when Forbes is on the court, it’s no surprise that his backcourt mates are struggling when he’s on the court — but the numbers are still illuminating.

“When Murray plays with Forbes, the Spurs are outscored by 10.1 points per 100 possessions. When Murray is in without Forbes, the Spurs outscore opponents by 11.9 points — a 22-point swing. With Derrick White and Forbes together, the Spurs are outscored by 14.5 points per 100 possessions. Without Forbes, White and the Spurs outscore opponents by 8.6 points — a 23.1-point swing. Patty Mills goes from being outscored with Forbes by 26.2 points to outscoring opponents by 15.0 points — a 41.2-point swing.”


Dude is a huge negative in every way possible ...Unlike pop tho Bud will bench him

address year 2-3. especially his 2nd year when he came off the bench. his defensive metrics were fine then.... in fact basically net zero. they dropped in year 3 as a starter but not enough his offense didnt make up for it. last year we know what happened but were not going to use him that way. its irrelevent.

[skones]

Whether he starts or not, we really just need him for 22-27 minutes a game and those are the minutes he will get due to his shooting ability. He’s not a great defender, but if Pop was starting him, he must be passable

Exactly. And those Spurs teams never had the same defensive identity as other Spurs teams. Having Pop as his former coach and being in a team with a core defensive identity should help bring out the best of him defensively. I could see him being an average to slightly below average defender in our team which is fine when you consider what he brings offensively. I mean we had games where Korver got 20+ mins and he is a negative on D no matter how you slice it so I see this as an upgrade on that front.

He is not passable defensively... Pop is just obsessed with the dude ..

“ The problems with starting Forbes begin on the defensive end. At 6-foot-2 and 205 pounds, he’s overwhelmed by opposing shooting guards each and every night. While there’s plenty of footage of Forbes getting scored on by talented guards — including last game out when CJ McCollum of the Portland Trail Blazers went for 32 points and seven assists — what has really stood out this year is that virtually everyone he defends attacks him without an ounce of fear”

The thing here is that when Forbes is overwhelmed on the perimeter, and guys are outmuscling him to get into the paint, it literally plays into our scheme's hand. We've got Lopez and Giannis waiting on the backside like, "suh dude" ready to rip the ball out of the sky. Forbes issues aren't because of lack of IQ, they're due to lack of physicality. As long as he's making the right rotations on the perimeter and flying out at shooters with his hand up, he can be hidden.

[drone3]

I'm really interested to see if Merrill can outplay Forbes. Merrill is a much more complete player than Forbes. Have to wait and see...

[Bus or bust]

I'm really interested to see if Merrill can outplay Forbes. Merrill is a much more complete player than Forbes. Have to wait and see...

If Merril can get into better shape and add some muscle he could contribute right away. His frame is NBA sized and his shot and IQ are good if not great already. Was shocked that no other teams took a flyer on him before us. Thought he would be an early second round pick. Excited to see what he can do.

[blazza18]

We literally have 5 guys who either are or are near the top of best defender at their position. The defense will be fine.

I don't think this is true. I'll also be very curious to see how the defence bounces back from being average at best in the bubble.

[blazza18]

I feel like we're going to start Forbes.

Do think this is a possibility too.

[Warriors Analyst]

Dude our bench defense is going to be gutter trash. The drop off from our starters to bench on that end is honestly hilarious.

I like it offensively I guess.

FWIW I think bench defense is one of the most overrated things in basketball. If your bench can breathe hot fire and go on big old scoring runs every few games, I think that matters more than having a defensively solid bench, provided that your starting 5 has good defenders that will stagger their minutes with bench lineups. And now that Craig and Portis have been signed, that's two solid bench defenders to mix and match.

[Chad34]

We literally have 5 guys who either are or are near the top of best defender at their position. The defense will be fine.

I don't think this is true. I'll also be very curious to see how the defence bounces back from being average at best in the bubble.

the defense in the bubble was terrible because you had old, and decrepit guys like rolo, korver, ersan, MW etc... we couldn't match the youth, energy, and strength of anyone.

[Bigfactsstackz]

Exactly. And those Spurs teams never had the same defensive identity as other Spurs teams. Having Pop as his former coach and being in a team with a core defensive identity should help bring out the best of him defensively. I could see him being an average to slightly below average defender in our team which is fine when you consider what he brings offensively. I mean we had games where Korver got 20+ mins and he is a negative on D no matter how you slice it so I see this as an upgrade on that front.

He is not passable defensively... Pop is just obsessed with the dude ..

“ The problems with starting Forbes begin on the defensive end. At 6-foot-2 and 205 pounds, he’s overwhelmed by opposing shooting guards each and every night. While there’s plenty of footage of Forbes getting scored on by talented guards — including last game out when CJ McCollum of the Portland Trail Blazers went for 32 points and seven assists — what has really stood out this year is that virtually everyone he defends attacks him without an ounce of fear”

The thing here is that when Forbes is overwhelmed on the perimeter, and guys are outmuscling him to get into the paint, it literally plays into our scheme's hand. We've got Lopez and Giannis waiting on the backside like, "suh dude" ready to rip the ball out of the sky. Forbes issues aren't because of lack of IQ, they're due to lack of physicality. As long as he's making the right rotations on the perimeter and flying out at shooters with his hand up, he can be hidden.

Forbes problem is lack of foot speed and height .. They drive right pass him or shoot over the top of him

[wallus]

And now that Craig and Portis have been signed, that's two solid bench defenders to mix and match.

Don't let Ruzious see this...

[WRau1]

We literally have 5 guys who either are or are near the top of best defender at their position. The defense will be fine.

I don't think this is true. I'll also be very curious to see how the defence bounces back from being average at best in the bubble.

Holiday, DDV, Middleton, Giannis, Lopez. Which one of those guys don't fit?

[Bigfactsstackz]

Exactly. And those Spurs teams never had the same defensive identity as other Spurs teams. Having Pop as his former coach and being in a team with a core defensive identity should help bring out the best of him defensively. I could see him being an average to slightly below average defender in our team which is fine when you consider what he brings offensively. I mean we had games where Korver got 20+ mins and he is a negative on D no matter how you slice it so I see this as an upgrade on that front.

He is not passable defensively... Pop is just obsessed with the dude ..

“ The problems with starting Forbes begin on the defensive end. At 6-foot-2 and 205 pounds, he’s overwhelmed by opposing shooting guards each and every night. While there’s plenty of footage of Forbes getting scored on by talented guards — including last game out when CJ McCollum of the Portland Trail Blazers went for 32 points and seven assists — what has really stood out this year is that virtually everyone he defends attacks him without an ounce of fear”


“Impact of Bryn Forbes and his Lack of Defense
In theory, with Forbes starting next to Dejounte Murray, San Antonio could simply have Forbes defend the other team’s weakest guard. However, that doesn’t work in reality because Forbes isn’t quick enough to stay with the vast majority point guards. Moreover, Forbes can rarely switch with DeMar DeRozan because his small frame makes it impossible for him to defend any of the league’s forwards.”


“Looking at the statistics, Forbes’ defensive shortcomings stick out like a sore thumb. When he’s on the court, opponents score 116.3 points per 100 possessions — far and away the worst mark on the team. When he’s on the bench, opponents score 103.4 points per 100 possessions. Stated differently, the Spurs operate like a top ten defense in the NBA when Forbes is on the bench but become the worst defensive team in the league when Forbes is on the court.”


Bryn Forbes Dragging Down Others
Considering the Spurs are the worst defensively when Forbes is on the court and the worst offensively when Forbes is on the court, it’s no surprise that his backcourt mates are struggling when he’s on the court — but the numbers are still illuminating.

“When Murray plays with Forbes, the Spurs are outscored by 10.1 points per 100 possessions. When Murray is in without Forbes, the Spurs outscore opponents by 11.9 points — a 22-point swing. With Derrick White and Forbes together, the Spurs are outscored by 14.5 points per 100 possessions. Without Forbes, White and the Spurs outscore opponents by 8.6 points — a 23.1-point swing. Patty Mills goes from being outscored with Forbes by 26.2 points to outscoring opponents by 15.0 points — a 41.2-point swing.”


Dude is a huge negative in every way possible ...Unlike pop tho Bud will bench him

address year 2-3. especially his 2nd year when he came off the bench. his defensive metrics were fine then.... in fact basically net zero. they dropped in year 3 as a starter but not enough his offense didnt make up for it. last year we know what happened but were not going to use him that way. its irrelevent.

I honestly believe teams just realized how bad he was defensively this year frfr teams made a point of emphasis to attack him constantly..

Like i said before, you guys will be fine with him since Bud will have no problem benching him ..

[skones]

He is not passable defensively... Pop is just obsessed with the dude ..

“ The problems with starting Forbes begin on the defensive end. At 6-foot-2 and 205 pounds, he’s overwhelmed by opposing shooting guards each and every night. While there’s plenty of footage of Forbes getting scored on by talented guards — including last game out when CJ McCollum of the Portland Trail Blazers went for 32 points and seven assists — what has really stood out this year is that virtually everyone he defends attacks him without an ounce of fear”

The thing here is that when Forbes is overwhelmed on the perimeter, and guys are outmuscling him to get into the paint, it literally plays into our scheme's hand. We've got Lopez and Giannis waiting on the backside like, "suh dude" ready to rip the ball out of the sky. Forbes issues aren't because of lack of IQ, they're due to lack of physicality. As long as he's making the right rotations on the perimeter and flying out at shooters with his hand up, he can be hidden.

Forbes problem is lack of foot speed and height .. They drive right pass him or shoot over the top of him

And like I said, drive past him. We play a drop zone. Them driving past him on close outs is literally what our scheme is designed for, funneling shooters into the strength of our defense.