Giannis SIGNS

[thonnisbeastley]

both those guys have some of the worst defensive metrics in the league. like bryn forbes or worse bad. they also need the ball...ALOT. trading them for middleton would be a risky manuever. im not trading this teams joe dumars for dale ellis or jeff malone

Booker is 23, his defense will improve. Especially when he's not playing for a bottom feeder. His defense could also be hidden better playing next to Jrue/Craig/Giannis. Middleton's a better defender, but his D has been overrated for the last few years. Big difference between Middleton now and pre-hamstring injury.

bookers defense would have already improved if he thought of himself as a winner instead of a scorer. hes been around that long anyway. beal on the other hand is just a bum on that side. you are NOT IN THE DISCUSSION of being a top player in this league if your defense falls into bottom 25% of drpm and likes to park there

stack up all their advanced and boxscore stats......per 100 possessions and even the scoring ability.... middleton stacks up with every category offensively and blows them away defensively. im not trading middleton away for michael redd with this theory that once he got here he'd "try harder"

Lol, well it's clear you're a big big Middleton guy.

To say Booker's defense would have already improved because he's been around long enough is absurd. He's 23, has played for a bottom 5 team his entire career, and was given the greenlight to jack up whatever he wanted. Even so, with higher usage and more shot attempts last year he was as efficient as Middleton on the offensive side of the ball. Middleton had a career year and will likely drop back down to his norms. Also, imagine if Booker had the looks Middleton gets by playing with Giannis.

Middleton also played with Bledsoe, Brook, Giannis - 3 ALL NBA-Defensive team players the last 2 seasons. His defensive stats the last couple of seasons are inflated because of this. He's no longer a high level defender, hasn't been since the hamstring injury.

If Middleton was in PHO and given the greenlight, playing for a bottom 5 team these last 4 years, he'd look way more like Michael Redd than Booker does.

[SIMMIES]

[quote="Ron Swanson"]Think we can say with 99.9% certainty that the Bogdan deal didn't happen because the tampering hammer would have come down hard from Silver. The timing of it all. The Woj tweet. The fact that they could have [i]still made the money work[/i] even after waiving Ersan and signing Pat with Bird rights. Schlenk, Riley, plus a bunch of other rival team execs complained to the league office, and the league caved to the whims of the Giannis suitors who'd like to give him any reason to not stay in Milwaukee. The evidence is just too overwhelming that this was the case.[/quote]




Alex Lasry sent out a tweet on the Monday before the Friday Free Agency period started that we were acquiring Bogdon from Sac. He's your leaker, again.

[theFireBlanket]

Khris is in the best shape of his career, he's recovered to nearly how he was before his injury through hard work. Keep reaching though.

[Bucksfan28]

If Jrue is as good as advertised, then I'm not sure what else you can do to theoretically put a championship roster together with Giannis as the fulcrum.

This is the crux for me. While fans are over-analyzing every pickup, dollar, and flight plan, it might just be this simple.

[MVP2110]

Think we can say with 99.9% certainty that the Bogdan deal didn't happen because the tampering hammer would have come down hard from Silver. The timing of it all. The Woj tweet. The fact that they could have still made the money work even after waiving Ersan and signing Pat with Bird rights. Schlenk, Riley, plus a bunch of other rival team execs complained to the league office, and the league caved to the whims of the Giannis suitors who'd like to give him any reason to not stay in Milwaukee. The evidence is just too overwhelming that this was the case.

Alex Lasry sent out a tweet on the Monday before the Friday Free Agency period started that we were acquiring Bogdon from Sac. He's your leaker, again.

I know we all hate Alex Lasry but this is just a lie

[DanoMac]

We were just able to do something that 99% of small markets can't - keep our generational superstar without having a title or 2nd superstar first.

What I'm not going to do right now is hate on anyone in the FO/ownership. They got the deal done. There's other times for that.

[humanrefutation]

Think we can say with 99.9% certainty that the Bogdan deal didn't happen because the tampering hammer would have come down hard from Silver. The timing of it all. The Woj tweet. The fact that they could have still made the money work even after waiving Ersan and signing Pat with Bird rights. Schlenk, Riley, plus a bunch of other rival team execs complained to the league office, and the league caved to the whims of the Giannis suitors who'd like to give him any reason to not stay in Milwaukee. The evidence is just too overwhelming that this was the case.

Alex Lasry sent out a tweet on the Monday before the Friday Free Agency period started that we were acquiring Bogdon from Sac. He's your leaker, again.

No he didn't. It's possible he was the leak to Woj or Shams or O'Connor or whomever. But he didn't tweet out anything himself.

[humanrefutation]

We were just able to do something that 99% of small markets can't - keep our generational superstar without having a title or 2nd superstar first.

What I'm not going to do right now is hate on anyone in the FO/ownership. They got the deal done. There's other times for that.

Yep. If you're going to blame them when things go bad, you have to give them credit where credit is due. And they clearly nurtured a space where Giannis felt valued and supported and convinced that they'll do what it takes to win. They deserve massive props for that.

[humanrefutation]

BTW, I don't think there's a debate that Middleton is a viable #2 in the regular season. But he needs to show up in the playoffs. That's what ultimately matters.

[SIMMIES]

[quote="aboveAverage"]It’s beyond amazing that we have Giannis for the next five years. But we need to focus on improving the team. I don’t think we are quite there yet. We’re still missing a solid 3rd star/semi star. I’m not sure what moves we can make in the future because we basically went all in on this team. Do we basically need to get super lucky in the draft next season?[/quote]



You don't think Jrue is a star/semi star?

[BigO]

The players are fine. We're missing a playoff coach.

[MickeyDavis]

Alex Lasry sent out a tweet on the Monday before the Friday Free Agency period started that we were acquiring Bogdon from Sac. He's your leaker, again.

Don't post stuff that's crap.

[Siefer]

FWIW, I think Middleton lost a bit of lateral agility after the hamstring injury. He's probably at like 90% of where he was in that department, but I do think he went from okay to subpar against quicker wings. That said, he's stronger, smarter, and has better legs these days, so if anything, he's probably a better overall team defender as long as he doesn't have to, for example, guard Butler for long stretches.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Booker is 23, his defense will improve. Especially when he's not playing for a bottom feeder. His defense could also be hidden better playing next to Jrue/Craig/Giannis. Middleton's a better defender, but his D has been overrated for the last few years. Big difference between Middleton now and pre-hamstring injury.

bookers defense would have already improved if he thought of himself as a winner instead of a scorer. hes been around that long anyway. beal on the other hand is just a bum on that side. you are NOT IN THE DISCUSSION of being a top player in this league if your defense falls into bottom 25% of drpm and likes to park there

stack up all their advanced and boxscore stats......per 100 possessions and even the scoring ability.... middleton stacks up with every category offensively and blows them away defensively. im not trading middleton away for michael redd with this theory that once he got here he'd "try harder"

Lol, well it's clear you're a big big Middleton guy.

To say Booker's defense would have already improved because he's been around long enough is absurd. He's 23, has played for a bottom 5 team his entire career, and was given the greenlight to jack up whatever he wanted. Even so, with higher usage and more shot attempts last year he was as efficient as Middleton on the offensive side of the ball. Middleton had a career year and will likely drop back down to his norms. Also, imagine if Booker had the looks Middleton gets by playing with Giannis.

Middleton also played with Bledsoe, Brook, Giannis - 3 ALL NBA-Defensive team players the last 2 seasons. His defensive stats the last couple of seasons are inflated because of this. He's no longer a high level defender, hasn't been since the hamstring injury.

If Middleton was in PHO and given the greenlight, playing for a bottom 5 team these last 4 years, he'd look way more like Michael Redd than Booker does.

meh... when middleton was bookers age he had some of the best defensive metrics in the league. we know how middleton would have looked in pheonix because in his early career thats what milwaukee was and his rpm and on/offs were thru the roof defensively. just a smart player who played hard.

the argument that beal or booker would try harder here when its clear they dont give a **** there.... well thats just not how it works..... and considering middelton gives you some defense along with scoring production and efficiency right on par with the other two if he chucked as much.... then it would just be foolish send him out for guys like that.

the only guys we should consider for middleton are all nba'ers... thats just where im at

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

BTW, I don't think there's a debate that Middleton is a viable #2 in the regular season. But he needs to show up in the playoffs. That's what ultimately matters.

this i actually agree with.

but im on the fence about if our playoff issues are system failure or player failure or a combination of both. if we have another solid reg season and our big 3 struggle again which then makes it like 4-4 with bledsoe we're going to have to ask ourselves bigger questions than as it relates to personnel that seem to dominate all year long. i refuse to believe these guys are all weak mentally if they cant make shots in the playoffs

[Bucksfan28]

The players are fine. We're missing a playoff coach.

Been pondering lately how much falls on Bud if this team flames out again. He has a superstar, talented secondary and role players, and two complimentary specialists (Forbes, Craig) for different lineups. Even if the top guys aren't as dynamic as one would like, it's a versatile cast. Should they keep failing the same way, i.e. unsightly half-court offense & a defense that invites 3's, it will be as boring as it is disappointing.

[leroyjw10]

538 updated their RAPTOR projections for 2020/2021. I like 538 a whole bunch, but I give very little thought to their basketball (and football) predictions. RAPTOR pathologically overrates the Celtics and Sixers, while underrating teams like the Nuggets and Heat. It looks like they haven't made an appreciable change to the the model this year, so it'll keep doing things like consider Harden a full tier above LeBron and Giannis.

it has a problem properly rating a team with a bunch of good players but no great player

Well, I just saw a 538 guy tweet about being excited for the model updates this year. It has Tatum as better than Giannis this season, and DDV as being a significantly more valuable player over the next 5 years than Middleton. So yeah, it's got a ton of problems.

Yeah, they lost me when they rated Donte as a $22 million/year player.

[blazza18]

Booker is a better scorer than Middleton. Middleton is a much better two-way player.

I would like to make the case that having a better scorer next to Giannis is more ideal than Khris' two way value. And as a poster who doesn't truly believe in Middleton I would like to say that if Giannis was a better shooter/creator in the half court Middleton would cop so much less criticism.

[mediocrityrules]

The players are fine. We're missing a playoff coach.

Been pondering lately how much falls on Bud if this team flames out again. He has a superstar, talented secondary and role players, and two complimentary specialists (Forbes, Craig) for different lineups. Even if the top guys aren't as dynamic as one would like, it's a versatile cast. Should they keep failing the same way, i.e. unsightly half-court offense & a defense that invites 3's, it will be as boring as it is disappointing.

Is it just a case of having better assistants? Bud's great at regular season and getting top seed, then you need guys that can step in on strategy for the playoffs. Bud doesn't necessarily need to go, but maybe those around him need to change a bit. Grab some guys with proven coaching experience on playoff teams.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

I would like to make the case that having a better scorer next to Giannis is more ideal than Khris' two way value.

jimmy butler would disagree with you and i think giannis would too. honestly i think giannis might ending up punching guys that didnt play hard on defense. luckily weve avoided those types