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Giannis SIGNS

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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1041 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:48 pm

blazza18 wrote:
I would like to make the case that having a better scorer next to Giannis is more ideal than Khris' two way value.


jimmy butler would disagree with you and i think giannis would too. honestly i think giannis might ending up punching guys that didnt play hard on defense. luckily weve avoided those types
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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1042 » by blazza18 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:07 pm

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
blazza18 wrote:
I would like to make the case that having a better scorer next to Giannis is more ideal than Khris' two way value.


jimmy butler would disagree with you and i think giannis would too. honestly i think giannis might ending up punching guys that didnt play hard on defense. luckily weve avoided those types


Khris doesn't play hard on defence half the time lol but that's not what I'm saying. I'm strictly talking about what would work next to Giannis and having a Dame/Booker type offensive threat would benefit him more than a very good not great 2 way player.
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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1043 » by thonnisbeastley » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:18 pm

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
thonnisbeastley wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:bookers defense would have already improved if he thought of himself as a winner instead of a scorer. hes been around that long anyway. beal on the other hand is just a bum on that side. you are NOT IN THE DISCUSSION of being a top player in this league if your defense falls into bottom 25% of drpm and likes to park there

stack up all their advanced and boxscore stats......per 100 possessions and even the scoring ability.... middleton stacks up with every category offensively and blows them away defensively. im not trading middleton away for michael redd with this theory that once he got here he'd "try harder"

Lol, well it's clear you're a big big Middleton guy.

To say Booker's defense would have already improved because he's been around long enough is absurd. He's 23, has played for a bottom 5 team his entire career, and was given the greenlight to jack up whatever he wanted. Even so, with higher usage and more shot attempts last year he was as efficient as Middleton on the offensive side of the ball. Middleton had a career year and will likely drop back down to his norms. Also, imagine if Booker had the looks Middleton gets by playing with Giannis.

Middleton also played with Bledsoe, Brook, Giannis - 3 ALL NBA-Defensive team players the last 2 seasons. His defensive stats the last couple of seasons are inflated because of this. He's no longer a high level defender, hasn't been since the hamstring injury.

If Middleton was in PHO and given the greenlight, playing for a bottom 5 team these last 4 years, he'd look way more like Michael Redd than Booker does.


meh... when middleton was bookers age he had some of the best defensive metrics in the league. we know how middleton would have looked in pheonix because in his early career thats what milwaukee was and his rpm and on/offs were thru the roof defensively. just a smart player who played hard.

the argument that beal or booker would try harder here when its clear they dont give a **** there.... well thats just not how it works..... and considering middelton gives you some defense along with scoring production and efficiency right on par with the other two if he chucked as much.... then it would just be foolish send him out for guys like that.

the only guys we should consider for middleton are all nba'ers... thats just where im at

Lmao...Please go look at Middleton's stats as a 23yo and tell me he was better than Booker last season. :crazy:
You can love Middleton all you want, hate on Booker all you want, absolutely hilarious comparison though for you to use. The argument that a 23 year old who has played for one of the worst run franchises in the league wouldn't be able to adapt to a new environment, ever, is absolutely absurd. Essentially you're saying that at the age of 23, he is who he is and he will never be able to be anything else. How close-minded can you get...

Also you have it backwards. If Middleton chucked as much with no one else around him to help, his efficiency would drop dramatically. His efficiency benefits greatly from playing next to Giannis.

I get what you're saying...it's just Middleton is not an all NBA'er, he's more of a Beal/Booker in terms of value.
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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1044 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:36 pm

blazza18 wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
blazza18 wrote:
I would like to make the case that having a better scorer next to Giannis is more ideal than Khris' two way value.


jimmy butler would disagree with you and i think giannis would too. honestly i think giannis might ending up punching guys that didnt play hard on defense. luckily weve avoided those types


Khris doesn't play hard on defence half the time lol but that's not what I'm saying. I'm strictly talking about what would work next to Giannis and having a Dame/Booker type offensive threat would benefit him more than a very good not great 2 way player.

play well or play hard or to even just give a **** on defense..... all the same difference is what im getting at.

and we can agree dame would be an upgrade over khris. no argument there :D
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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1045 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:47 pm

thonnisbeastley wrote:Lmao...Please go look at Middleton's stats as a 23yo and tell me he was better than Booker last season. :crazy:

the entire discusion was as it relates to playing defense at 23. you wanted to explain that the reason booker sucks on defense is because hes young. i said thats horse **** and used middletons outstanding defense at that age in a similar setting as pheonix.

my argument is great scorers who are also the worst defenders on their team is the type you steer clear of trading your allstar for in the hopes of an upgrade.

i dont deny booker is a great scorer. dont get all hung up on that i have no beef with his scoring. guys like derozen, lavine, beal, carmelo, wiggins, etc etc..... the league has lots of great scorers. i just dont want to trade our 2 way allstar for those guys
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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1046 » by DavidDunn21 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:50 pm

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
thonnisbeastley wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:bookers defense would have already improved if he thought of himself as a winner instead of a scorer. hes been around that long anyway. beal on the other hand is just a bum on that side. you are NOT IN THE DISCUSSION of being a top player in this league if your defense falls into bottom 25% of drpm and likes to park there

stack up all their advanced and boxscore stats......per 100 possessions and even the scoring ability.... middleton stacks up with every category offensively and blows them away defensively. im not trading middleton away for michael redd with this theory that once he got here he'd "try harder"

Lol, well it's clear you're a big big Middleton guy.

To say Booker's defense would have already improved because he's been around long enough is absurd. He's 23, has played for a bottom 5 team his entire career, and was given the greenlight to jack up whatever he wanted. Even so, with higher usage and more shot attempts last year he was as efficient as Middleton on the offensive side of the ball. Middleton had a career year and will likely drop back down to his norms. Also, imagine if Booker had the looks Middleton gets by playing with Giannis.

Middleton also played with Bledsoe, Brook, Giannis - 3 ALL NBA-Defensive team players the last 2 seasons. His defensive stats the last couple of seasons are inflated because of this. He's no longer a high level defender, hasn't been since the hamstring injury.

If Middleton was in PHO and given the greenlight, playing for a bottom 5 team these last 4 years, he'd look way more like Michael Redd than Booker does.


meh... when middleton was bookers age he had some of the best defensive metrics in the league. we know how middleton would have looked in pheonix because in his early career thats what milwaukee was and his rpm and on/offs were thru the roof defensively. just a smart player who played hard.

the argument that beal or booker would try harder here when its clear they dont give a **** there.... well thats just not how it works..... and considering middelton gives you some defense along with scoring production and efficiency right on par with the other two if he chucked as much.... then it would just be foolish send him out for guys like that.

the only guys we should consider for middleton are all nba'ers... thats just where im at
Every single young guy who people would've foolishly put Khris ahead of lapped him last year. If only someone would've had the foresight to grasp this maybe we could've made a move for one of those difference makers.

Imagine the Bucks with Murray or Booker or Beal. Not this Khris BS. Not 26 points is a big game Khris. Imagine Giannis with a MONSTER scorer. Btw, it's not like having "pretty good" defender Khris has mattered AT ALL in the playoffs against guys from Kawhi to Butler. He's not getting you a stop. That's why everyone was furious at Bud for not playing Wes.

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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1047 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:55 pm

DavidDunn21 wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
thonnisbeastley wrote:Lol, well it's clear you're a big big Middleton guy.

To say Booker's defense would have already improved because he's been around long enough is absurd. He's 23, has played for a bottom 5 team his entire career, and was given the greenlight to jack up whatever he wanted. Even so, with higher usage and more shot attempts last year he was as efficient as Middleton on the offensive side of the ball. Middleton had a career year and will likely drop back down to his norms. Also, imagine if Booker had the looks Middleton gets by playing with Giannis.

Middleton also played with Bledsoe, Brook, Giannis - 3 ALL NBA-Defensive team players the last 2 seasons. His defensive stats the last couple of seasons are inflated because of this. He's no longer a high level defender, hasn't been since the hamstring injury.

If Middleton was in PHO and given the greenlight, playing for a bottom 5 team these last 4 years, he'd look way more like Michael Redd than Booker does.


meh... when middleton was bookers age he had some of the best defensive metrics in the league. we know how middleton would have looked in pheonix because in his early career thats what milwaukee was and his rpm and on/offs were thru the roof defensively. just a smart player who played hard.

the argument that beal or booker would try harder here when its clear they dont give a **** there.... well thats just not how it works..... and considering middelton gives you some defense along with scoring production and efficiency right on par with the other two if he chucked as much.... then it would just be foolish send him out for guys like that.

the only guys we should consider for middleton are all nba'ers... thats just where im at
Every single young guy who people would've foolishly put Khris ahead of lapped him last year. If only someone would've had the foresight to grasp this maybe we could've made a move for one of those difference makers.

Imagine the Bucks with Murray or Booker or Beal. Not this Khris BS. Not 26 points is a big game Khris. Imagine Giannis with a MONSTER scorer. Btw, it's not like having "pretty good" defender Khris has mattered AT ALL in the playoffs against guys from Kawhi to Butler. He's not getting you a stop. That's why everyone was furious at Bud for not playing Wes.

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look...im not going to discuss theory eyetest red auerbach charles barkley i know the game tv stuff when EVERY advanced stat that matters to this kind of stuff says youre wrong

im just going to state those advanced stats says youre wrong and then go eat dinner
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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1048 » by DavidDunn21 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:07 am

It continues to be amusing how close we were the last two years and people still don't want to look at the second best player.

Giannis and Bud and Eric could've done the exact same things the past two years and we'd have one or two rings with a Beal level scorer. We don't lose four straight to the Raptors with a player of that caliber plus Giannis. We just don't.

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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1049 » by Perishable517 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:10 am

Marques and Dandridge over Allen.
JimmyTheKid wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:The **** Middleton gets from this board is just hilarious.


1. Alcindor
2. Giannis
3. Moncrief
4. Allen
5. Middleton




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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1050 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:14 am

Perishable517 wrote:Marques and Dandridge over Allen.
JimmyTheKid wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
1. Alcindor
2. Giannis
3. Moncrief
4. Allen
5. Middleton





i thought long and hard about those two but honestly i was just too young to form a good opinion in an exercise like this. if somebody wanted to say they were better than id be ok with that.

last 35 years its basically giannis, ray and middleton tho. we can always go with that as it relates to the point im trying to make. in other words you better be really effing sure of whatever trade you make if middletons going out
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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1051 » by Lippo » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:18 am

DavidDunn21 wrote:It continues to be amusing how close we were the last two years and people still don't want to look at the second best player.

Giannis and Bud and Eric could've done the exact same things the past two years and we'd have one or two rings with a Beal level scorer. We don't lose four straight to the Raptors with a player of that caliber plus Giannis. We just don't.

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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1052 » by Lippo » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:20 am

Lippo wrote:
DavidDunn21 wrote:It continues to be amusing how close we were the last two years and people still don't want to look at the second best player.

Giannis and Bud and Eric could've done the exact same things the past two years and we'd have one or two rings with a Beal level scorer. We don't lose four straight to the Raptors with a player of that caliber plus Giannis. We just don't.

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Everyone blamed Bled, but Mids did his best Tony Snell impersonation in most games, other than when Giannis was out....
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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1053 » by Perishable517 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:27 am

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
Perishable517 wrote:Marques and Dandridge over Allen.
JimmyTheKid wrote:



i thought long and hard about those two but honestly i was just too young to form a good opinion in an exercise like this. if somebody wanted to say they were better than id be ok with that.

last 35 years its basically giannis, ray and middleton tho. we can always go with that as it relates to the point im trying to make. in other words you better be really effing sure of whatever trade you make if middletons going out
I can get behind that.

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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1054 » by drdrG » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:11 am

Middleton is a great player and has far exceeded expectations. He's a two time all-star and has been crucial for the franchise's resurgence. Middleton singlehandedly won G4 against the Heat which was rightly applauded. Jamal Murray went supernova and won a playoff series. I acknowledge this is a bit reductionist but Murray and Beal have demonstrated that level and I think Booker will reach it as well. Khris may grade out with advanced stats in the regular season as good or better than those three but it's hard to make the same case against the best competition. For me, Middleton tops out just below a player who can dominate a playoff series despite how much I like him personally.
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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1055 » by buckboy » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:49 am

paulpressey25 wrote:
coolhandluke121 wrote:
thonnisbeastley wrote:Idk, extending Bledsoe mid-season was pretty dumb. Overpaying for Middleton. Signing Brook for 4 years.
Maybe not terrible mistakes, but definitely have impacted our ability to adjust/improve the roster. Hence the Jrue overpay.


All those guys easily produced market value, and probably some surplus value, on their contracts last season - even Bledsoe. In case you haven't noticed, NBA players just make a lot these days, even if they're not all-stars. Brogdon ended up being the most overpaid of all their free agents last year, and he's the one they let go while actually getting a little something in return. I don't understand what the hell they were supposed to do, let their second all-star as well 2019's second-best player (Bledsoe until the ECF at least) walk for nothing off a 60-win team and then pat themselves on the back for being frugal??


Evergreen comment. Give me Brogdon at 4/$80 and Bojan at 4/$73 than Khris at 5/$178. Was very doable.

In most cases the team with a free agent gun to their head doesn’t have an acceptable plan B. They arguably had a plan B, but it would have required some guts to implement.


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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1056 » by buckboy » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:14 am

jschligs wrote:
Shaffty wrote:
Read on Twitter


I love him. And I love that he uses "at the end of the day" all the freakin' time.


That's pretty much his only flaw imo.
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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1057 » by ShootingtheJ » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:35 am

DavidDunn21 wrote:It continues to be amusing how close we were the last two years and people still don't want to look at the second best player.

Giannis and Bud and Eric could've done the exact same things the past two years and we'd have one or two rings with a Beal level scorer. We don't lose four straight to the Raptors with a player of that caliber plus Giannis. We just don't.

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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1058 » by buckbeer » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:38 am

drdrG wrote:Middleton is a great player and has far exceeded expectations. He's a two time all-star and has been crucial for the franchise's resurgence. Middleton singlehandedly won G4 against the Heat which was rightly applauded. Jamal Murray went supernova and won a playoff series. I acknowledge this is a bit reductionist but Murray and Beal have demonstrated that level and I think Booker will reach it as well. Khris may grade out with advanced stats in the regular season as good or better than those three but it's hard to make the same case against the best competition. For me, Middleton tops out just below a player who can dominate a playoff series despite how much I like him personally.


I think once Middleton becomes more assertive and starts scoring over 20pts per game like he is capable of doing, much of the unhappiness will dissipate.

Besides the good defense, Middleton and Jrue are both capable of scoring over 20pts per game, we need them to be more assertive offensively and score like all-stars to win the championship.
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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1059 » by fan230 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:55 am

Jrue seems to be a strong defender. I hope he scores at the Khris level also.

A different point: Bled was an outstanding defender and had many good scoring games. He just was not a natural 3 point shooter and that was a big problem. He also played poorly in the playoffs of course but i am willing to cut him some slack for his play in the bubble; reason: he had just recovered from Covid, I don’t see this being mentioned much.

Hope jrue is a better outside shooter than bled. Otherwise I am not sure if Bled would be considered worse. In his early days with the Bucks, Bled was a good creator also but Bud’s system somehow stifled that part of his play.
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Re: Giannis SIGNS 

Post#1060 » by JayMKE » Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:01 am

Im not expecting Jrue to be significantly better than Bledsoe in the RS, we paid a lot for Jrue to show up in the playoffs.
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