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Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining)

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Should we replace Bud now ? 58 games remaining for the Season

Yes, now . Just fire him
62
46%
Yes, but after the trade deadline
9
7%
No, he is the best we could have
45
33%
No, we are the No1 seed for 2 years, I trust him
20
15%
 
Total votes: 136

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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#201 » by JayMKE » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:34 am

humanrefutation wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:Serious question:
Why is it that NBA thinks that Europeans are good enough to play, but not good enough to coach? Even though you can see every second NBA coach is stealing plays from Euroleague.

There's a couple dozen coaches in Europe who would run rings around the Buds of this world, you just may (or may not) need a translator.


I don't think it's just about the language barrier. There's also a huge cultural gap that European coaches have to navigate with working with NBA players. That man management is essential to knowing how to get the most out of your players. That's especially the case in a superstar driven league where if you don't get buy in from the LeBrons of the sport, you might as well pack your bags.

I'm not saying that there aren't any Euro coaches who can it well here. But I imagine that's part of the reason why you don't see more making the leap.

I do think you'll see more making that leap over the next decade or so. European soccer is a reasonable analogue, where you can have Portuguese and Spanish and German and French and Italian managers winning big in the English Premier League. My guess is that it'll take one making the leap and doing it well, and the floodgates will open.

It seems like that was the case for both David Blatt and Igor Kokoškov, both went total player coach next and were much happier. I don’t think most NBA players would have much tolerance for being coached like they played in EuroLeague just like they don’t have much tolerance for college coaches treating them like college players. You need to be both an Xs & Os guy + a leader of men who can balance NBA sizes egos.
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#202 » by Pachinko_ » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:55 am

JayMKE wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:Serious question:
Why is it that NBA thinks that Europeans are good enough to play, but not good enough to coach? Even though you can see every second NBA coach is stealing plays from Euroleague.

There's a couple dozen coaches in Europe who would run rings around the Buds of this world, you just may (or may not) need a translator.


I don't think it's just about the language barrier. There's also a huge cultural gap that European coaches have to navigate with working with NBA players. That man management is essential to knowing how to get the most out of your players. That's especially the case in a superstar driven league where if you don't get buy in from the LeBrons of the sport, you might as well pack your bags.

I'm not saying that there aren't any Euro coaches who can it well here. But I imagine that's part of the reason why you don't see more making the leap.

I do think you'll see more making that leap over the next decade or so. European soccer is a reasonable analogue, where you can have Portuguese and Spanish and German and French and Italian managers winning big in the English Premier League. My guess is that it'll take one making the leap and doing it well, and the floodgates will open.

It seems like that was the case for both David Blatt and Igor Kokoškov, both went total player coach next and were much happier. I don’t think most NBA players would have much tolerance for being coached like they played in EuroLeague just like they don’t have much tolerance for college coaches treating them like college players. You need to be both an Xs & Os guy + a leader of men who can balance NBA sizes egos.

You're thinking Lebron, Harden, CP3
We're trending towards Doncic, Giannis, Jokic
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#203 » by Pachinko_ » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:56 am

AreBe wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:Serious question:
Why is it that NBA thinks that Europeans are good enough to play, but not good enough to coach? Even though you can see every second NBA coach is stealing plays from Euroleague.

There's a couple dozen coaches in Europe who would run rings around the Buds of this world, you just may (or may not) need a translator.


Nick Nurse cut his coaching teeth riding busses in Europe:
Nurse later spent 11 seasons coaching in Europe, mostly in the British Basketball League (BBL).[5] During that time, he won two BBL championships as a head coach, one with the Birmingham Bullets in 1996 and one with the Manchester Giants in 2000, while also helping London Towers in the Euroleague.[6] Nurse also won the BBL Coach of the Year Award in the 1999–2000 and 2003–04 seasons.[7] He also coached for the Telindus Oostende of the Ethias League in 1998, as well as became an assistant coach for the Oklahoma Storm of the United States Basketball League in both 2001 and 2005.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Nurse

did you ask England if they want to be called Europe?
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#204 » by JayMKE » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:10 am

Pachinko_ wrote:
JayMKE wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
I don't think it's just about the language barrier. There's also a huge cultural gap that European coaches have to navigate with working with NBA players. That man management is essential to knowing how to get the most out of your players. That's especially the case in a superstar driven league where if you don't get buy in from the LeBrons of the sport, you might as well pack your bags.

I'm not saying that there aren't any Euro coaches who can it well here. But I imagine that's part of the reason why you don't see more making the leap.

I do think you'll see more making that leap over the next decade or so. European soccer is a reasonable analogue, where you can have Portuguese and Spanish and German and French and Italian managers winning big in the English Premier League. My guess is that it'll take one making the leap and doing it well, and the floodgates will open.

It seems like that was the case for both David Blatt and Igor Kokoškov, both went total player coach next and were much happier. I don’t think most NBA players would have much tolerance for being coached like they played in EuroLeague just like they don’t have much tolerance for college coaches treating them like college players. You need to be both an Xs & Os guy + a leader of men who can balance NBA sizes egos.

You're thinking Lebron, Harden, CP3
We're trending towards Doncic, Giannis, Jokic


I think those guys are more likely to be influenced by money and NBA culture than the inverse, the whole player empowerment movement doesn’t seem like it’s slowing down and runs inverse to heavy handed coaching. Are there any player coaches in Europe?
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#205 » by BigO » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:14 am

Swingman72 wrote:Bud should have been fired after the debacle last post season. He's another " can't change my system Mike Mccarthy" and adapt to the changing NBA. Giannis's talent is being wasted here while Bud has the same clueless Mike Mccarthy look along the sidelines each game as the Bucks get their asses handed to them.

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Great comparison to Mike McCarthy.
Bring in an assistant coach who knows x's and o's. I think that eliminates any of the Bucks assistants.
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#206 » by Pachinko_ » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:22 am

JayMKE wrote:I think those guys are more likely to be influenced by money and NBA culture than the inverse, the whole player empowerment movement doesn’t seem like it’s slowing down and runs inverse to heavy handed coaching. Are there any player coaches in Europe?

Nah not really, maybe in football

Cultures change though, and this is one culture that needs to change. It sucks.
"Leader of men" easily translates to inconsequential mediocre to bad coach who's just a star's kissass buddy.
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#207 » by JayMKE » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:44 am

Pachinko_ wrote:
JayMKE wrote:I think those guys are more likely to be influenced by money and NBA culture than the inverse, the whole player empowerment movement doesn’t seem like it’s slowing down and runs inverse to heavy handed coaching. Are there any player coaches in Europe?

Nah not really, maybe in football

Cultures change though, and this is one culture that needs to change. It sucks.
"Leader of men" easily translates to inconsequential mediocre to bad coach who's just a star's kissass buddy.


IDK i think it’s just the reality of dealing with athletes with net worths in the 9 figures, Lebron might not play many more years but his influence on player culture will remain for decades after he retires I think and it seems unlikely that he’s going to completely walk away from the game like MJ. Lebron has dictated his entire career and hasn’t ever truly been coached or wanted to be, this is who the stars of tomorrow or today really (Durant, AD, Harden, Kyrie, etc) will emulate. We are lucky to have Giannis but guys like him are rare, considering how Giannis has played internationally I doubt he wishes the NBA was more like Europe. Has the virus of 3 point spamming infected European basketball yet?
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#208 » by Pachinko_ » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:55 am

JayMKE wrote:Has the virus of 3 point spamming infected European basketball yet?

It's not a virus, I think it's just an error in basketball rules. Spamming 3s always made sense, it just took us a couple of decades to figure it out. And I say "error" because it makes the game ugly and I don't think this is what the rules intended.

Yes European teams shoot more now too.
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#209 » by LuessiT » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:07 am

Pachinko_ wrote:
JayMKE wrote:Has the virus of 3 point spamming infected European basketball yet?

It's not a virus, I think it's just an error in basketball rules. Spamming 3s always made sense, it just took us a couple of decades to figure it out. And I say "error" because it makes the game ugly and I don't think this is what the rules intended.

Yes European teams shoot more now too.


Honestly it's crazy it took this long to figure out. Like I get that shooting improved over the years but still...
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#210 » by JayMKE » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:25 am

I honestly think the 3 point line should be abolished at this point or only applicable during short periods of time like the last couple minutes of a game or OT. Something has to be done and it can’t just be get rid of the corners or push back the line, that’s not going to solve the issue of 3>2 just make them take even worse shots. They could move the line back to half court and you’d still have teams chucking them, Antoine Walker was truly a man ahead of his time as an analytic genius.
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#211 » by Pachinko_ » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:56 am

Here's the beauty of basketball: even though basketball is so hard to analyse with numbers, if a team or a player was doing something aesthetically pleasing you just knew that this was good for their numbers as well. Those two things were always hand in hand, you saw MJ gliding and Olajuwon dancing, you knew this was helping their team. Then the Spurs ball and player movement which was a beauty to watch, you knew it would give them wins. Then the splash brothers letting it fly, these guys really knew how get open and shoot, those shots were pretty, of course they led to titles. Even the Bad Boys D, Shaq's raw power, Kobe's maniacal ego, there was something brutally heroic about those things, they were good to watch. Everything made sense. Good to watch = good results.

This is the first time in all my years I've seen this rule broken. Random awkward 7 footers and bad shooters spamming 3s, and that leads to wins. I hate it, its ugly and boring.
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#212 » by Fotis St » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:20 am

I don't dislike taking 3s ... I honestly hate Bud's Bucks basketball ... with our one pass or one hand off pass let if fly 3s with 16 sec left on the shot clock. Dear Basketball Gods, save us.
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#213 » by FrieAaron » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:51 am

Pachinko_ wrote:Here's the beauty of basketball: even though basketball is so hard to analyse with numbers, if a team or a player was doing something aesthetically pleasing you just knew that this was good for their numbers as well. Those two things were always hand in hand, you saw MJ gliding and Olajuwon dancing, you knew this was helping their team. Then the Spurs ball and player movement which was a beauty to watch, you knew it would give them wins. Then the splash brothers letting it fly, these guys really knew how get open and shoot, those shots were pretty, of course they led to titles. Even the Bad Boys D, Shaq's raw power, Kobe's maniacal ego, there was something brutally heroic about those things, they were good to watch. Everything made sense. Good to watch = good results.

This is the first time in all my years I've seen this rule broken. Random awkward 7 footers and bad shooters spamming 3s, and that leads to wins. I hate it, its ugly and boring.


Good way to put it. Basically, the sport has been gamed such that now we realize that while good ball movement leading to the highest percentage shot is aesthetically pleasing it's actually usually way better to just hit 3.8 out of every 10 threes and flop your way to the line as much as possible. I think that's why it kind of took so long to figure out - shooting 38% just feels terrible compared to shooting 57% from layups and mid-range, but it's actually just as good. The free-throw thing, though, is entirely on the league.
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#214 » by Unique » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:55 am

I still think the problem with the Bucks is not so much the 'let-it-fly' approach, but rather the lack of defense.

You simply can't be scoring on average 110-125 points and lose the game at the end.
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#215 » by Fotis St » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:11 am

Just to keep a log on this thread
17-13 Record
69 Yes, Replace him .... 53%
60 No ..................... 47%
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#216 » by Fotis St » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:00 am

skones wrote:Zero mention of Chris Finch being hired and thats the idiocy of this thread. Fire Bud! What do we do next? Who cares!
I am not sure even a mediocre coach can do worse than Bud right now. This is why there is not a specific name of a coach or an option. Its clearly towards to a change of schemes or not since Bud has proven incapable to adapt.
We are playing awful basketball , not expected. Alot believed in continuity, even myself, I believe it takes some time for a coach to teach a scheme and find the right pieces ... so Bud had all the time he needed and the team actually picked on his first year here. Even before the bubble there were signs that we are regressing as a team and the bubble just exposed us. Even good teams with an elite coach can knock us out, cause Bud is just who he is. Time to move on imo. We are already late.
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#217 » by GoldenAntlers » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:25 pm

Unique wrote:I still think the problem with the Bucks is not so much the 'let-it-fly' approach, but rather the lack of defense.

You simply can't be scoring on average 110-125 points and lose the game at the end.
What's league average now? 115?
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#218 » by CharityStripe34 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:21 pm

https://youtu.be/UOIRLTI1vzg

Eye test confirmation. The entire league is scorched earth shooting from three with empty arenas and no home court. Yet this team is still moronically over helping on drives and leaving guys wide open. Particularly awful when Gianni is guarding someone in the post and guys come over to shade for no reason.

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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#219 » by FlagsFlyForever » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:20 pm

mediocrityrules wrote:Can we stop calling him coach Bud. From now on he shall forever be known as coach Bu. It's an understatement to say that the D is silent!

Bucks have the #10 defense in the league. How high are our standards?
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Re: Should we replace Bud now ? (58 season games remaining) 

Post#220 » by emunney » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:37 pm

League has gone from a team average of 34.1 to 34.9 3PA and a 1 percentage point increase on 3P%. Our defensive problems are primarily in the personnel bucket.
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