PG Knicks: Bryn Curry
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Re: PG Knicks: Bryn Curry
If you really can't get Giannis another superstar to play with than this is the only recipe that will work. Every role player and sub standard near ALL Star has to hit wide open 3s or they aren't a good fit (see Bledsoe)
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Re: PG Knicks: Bryn Curry
-Jragon- wrote:ShootingtheJ wrote:-Jragon- wrote:
Yes, I agree. Donte is good at everything except what we actually need him for in a lineup with Giainnis which is hitting open 3s. Too bad we don't have a guy better at that... oh wait Forbes is.
And yet the Bucks 11 points better with DDV on the floor, and 10 points worse with Forbes on the floor. Apparently, defense, rebounding, and playmaking help every lineup.
We're back to using plus minus to win arguments despite it's flaws. You think Donte also has better lineups with him since he's the starter?
I'll make this easy. Anyone playing alongside Giannis should be able to hit close to 50% of their 3s regular season and playoffs because Giannis will get you wide the F open. If you can't the shots than come in and be a hustle player off the bench.
Hmm, kind of sounds like, if you play with Giannis, as Forbes does with many of his minutes, his +/- should be significantly better if shooting is the only thing that matters?
Re: PG Knicks: Bryn Curry
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Re: PG Knicks: Bryn Curry
-Jragon- wrote:ShootingtheJ wrote:-Jragon- wrote:
Yes, I agree. Donte is good at everything except what we actually need him for in a lineup with Giainnis which is hitting open 3s. Too bad we don't have a guy better at that... oh wait Forbes is.
And yet the Bucks 11 points better with DDV on the floor, and 10 points worse with Forbes on the floor. Apparently, defense, rebounding, and playmaking help every lineup.
We're back to using plus minus to win arguments despite it's flaws. You think Donte also has better lineups with him since he's the starter?
I'll make this easy. Anyone playing alongside Giannis should be able to hit close to 50% of their 3s regular season and playoffs because Giannis will get you wide the F open. If you can't the shots than come in and be a hustle player off the bench.
There's only 2 guys in the league hitting close to 50% and one of them already plays for the Bucks.
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Re: PG Knicks: Bryn Curry
ShootingtheJ wrote:-Jragon- wrote:DingleJerry wrote:I could see an argument to start Bryn because his bad D is more easily hidden with the starting unit. Idea would be to still play DDV the same or more mins he's getting now, and still close. But since we're gonna have to get some PT out of a bad defensive G, maybe it would be better to stagger. With DDV shooting better this year, I would just keep rolling with him though. But I could see the discussion. Heck, I recall the discussion preseason but DDV has kept his 3% up this whole time.
Yes, I agree. Donte is good at everything except what we actually need him for in a lineup with Giainnis which is hitting open 3s. Too bad we don't have a guy better at that... oh wait Forbes is.
And yet the Bucks 11 points better with DDV on the floor, and 10 points worse with Forbes on the floor. Apparently, defense, rebounding, and playmaking help every lineup.
Giannis is playing almost double the minutes with DDV than he does with Forbes.
Apparently, playing more with Giannis in the lineup significantly helps your team stats.
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote: wtf is a "fit" with Giannis. hes an amazing talent but he is being over utilized offensively and too many other guys are taking flak for our failures on that end.
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Re: PG Knicks: Bryn Curry
TD75 wrote:ShootingtheJ wrote:-Jragon- wrote:
Yes, I agree. Donte is good at everything except what we actually need him for in a lineup with Giainnis which is hitting open 3s. Too bad we don't have a guy better at that... oh wait Forbes is.
And yet the Bucks 11 points better with DDV on the floor, and 10 points worse with Forbes on the floor. Apparently, defense, rebounding, and playmaking help every lineup.
Giannis is playing almost double the minutes with DDV than he does with Forbes.
Apparently, playing more with Giannis in the lineup significantly helps your team stats.
I don't think you've thought this one through properly.
emunney wrote:
We need a man shaped like a chicken nugget with the shot selection of a 21st birthday party.
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
if you combined jabari parker, royal ivey, a shrimp and a ball sack youd have javon carter
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Re: PG Knicks: Bryn Curry
AussieBuck wrote:TD75 wrote:ShootingtheJ wrote:
And yet the Bucks 11 points better with DDV on the floor, and 10 points worse with Forbes on the floor. Apparently, defense, rebounding, and playmaking help every lineup.
Giannis is playing almost double the minutes with DDV than he does with Forbes.
Apparently, playing more with Giannis in the lineup significantly helps your team stats.
I don't think you've thought this one through properly.
Enlighten me
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote: wtf is a "fit" with Giannis. hes an amazing talent but he is being over utilized offensively and too many other guys are taking flak for our failures on that end.
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Well if you went far enough to see how many minutes each guy has played with Giannis you'd already know that if Forbes doubled his minutes with Giannis that'd be well over 100% of his minutes played so I don't know that it'd be fruitful. You'd also know that Forbes' +/- with Giannis is pitiful and that Donte's is better over the board with whatever lineup. Basically what I'm saying is that you've admitted looking at the numbers and still came away with a whack take. That's either you being dishonest or not having rudimentary math skills.
emunney wrote:
We need a man shaped like a chicken nugget with the shot selection of a 21st birthday party.
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
if you combined jabari parker, royal ivey, a shrimp and a ball sack youd have javon carter
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Re: PG Knicks: Bryn Curry
While I agree with the emphasis on shooting. Near 50% expectations is just crazy talk. 40 is the threshold and DDV is just below it. So far, he's made the jump we all wanted in that aspect. If he tails off and ends up back in the 33-35% area he had been then it's a problem. The problem is, like you say, that he's kind of limited to that type of shot. I don't see him being a 'bucket getter' type, off the dribble, etc. But if he continues to be well above average at all the little things and hits 38-40% on his 3s he's far from our problems.
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Imagine you trade Donte for a SG bucket getter or whatever. Now you may have slightly improved your starting unit offense but you've also **** any chance of any pairing of non-Jrue second unit lineups working and Holiday can't do one his best strengths in guarding teh best perimeter guy 1 through 3 because you've lost your one other guy who can guard both PG and SG. Unless of course you're trading Donte for a guy who can do all the Donte things and more but lol obviously.
emunney wrote:
We need a man shaped like a chicken nugget with the shot selection of a 21st birthday party.
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
if you combined jabari parker, royal ivey, a shrimp and a ball sack youd have javon carter
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Re: PG Knicks: Bryn Curry
AussieBuck wrote:Well if you went far enough to see how many minutes each guy has played with Giannis you'd already know that if Forbes doubled his minutes with Giannis that'd be well over 100% of his minutes played so I don't know that it'd be fruitful. You'd also know that Forbes' +/- with Giannis is pitiful and that Donte's is better over the board with whatever lineup.
Where did I say that you should double Forbes' minutes on the floor with Giannis to project his stats? What kind of logic is the one you are using?
Forbes has spent significantly more time without Giannis in the floor than DVV, even though DDV has been more minutes in the floor. Apparently for you this is not a factor to consider.
AussieBuck wrote:Basically what I'm saying is that you've admitted looking at the numbers and still came away with a whack take.
That "whack take" was your interpretation of what I said. Certainly not what I said. Enjoy arguing with yourself.
AussieBuck wrote: That's either you being dishonest or not having rudimentary math skills.
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote: wtf is a "fit" with Giannis. hes an amazing talent but he is being over utilized offensively and too many other guys are taking flak for our failures on that end.
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Yeah, thought so.
emunney wrote:
We need a man shaped like a chicken nugget with the shot selection of a 21st birthday party.
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
if you combined jabari parker, royal ivey, a shrimp and a ball sack youd have javon carter
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Re: PG Knicks: Bryn Curry
TD75 wrote:AussieBuck wrote:Well if you went far enough to see how many minutes each guy has played with Giannis you'd already know that if Forbes doubled his minutes with Giannis that'd be well over 100% of his minutes played so I don't know that it'd be fruitful. You'd also know that Forbes' +/- with Giannis is pitiful and that Donte's is better over the board with whatever lineup.
Where did I say that you should double Forbes' minutes on the floor with Giannis to project his stats? What kind of logic is the one you are using?
Forbes has spent significantly more time without Giannis in the floor than DVV, even though DDV has been more minutes in the floor. Apparently for you this is not a factor to consider.AussieBuck wrote:Basically what I'm saying is that you've admitted looking at the numbers and still came away with a whack take.
That "whack take" was your interpretation of what I said. Certainly not what I said. Enjoy arguing with yourself.AussieBuck wrote: That's either you being dishonest or not having rudimentary math skills.
Take the loss, man. You put it on the tee, he whacked it.
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Re: PG Knicks: Bryn Curry
Let's not forget that Forbes gets sheltered more than DDV due to his pitiful defensive ability, and therefore plays against a lower quality of competition than DDV, who obviously plays against tougher opponents since he's a starter.
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-Jragon- wrote:DrWood wrote:-Jragon- wrote:
Yes, I agree. Donte is good at everything except what we actually need him for in a lineup with Giainnis which is hitting open 3s. Too bad we don't have a guy better at that... oh wait Forbes is.
He's shooting 38% from 3. If that's not good enough, your perspective might be skewed. Forbes is bad at basketball, but good at shooting 3s.
38% for a volume shooter that pulls up on dudes isn't the same 38% that Donte shoots since he only shoots wide open kickouts from. If you have an MVP with the gravity of Giannis that you're shooting wide the F open then you need to be close to 50% or Giannis might as well never pass and can probably make 40%+ of his fadeaways. Furthermore, if Giannis can't trust him to make that shot he shouldn't be on the floor with him regardless of his cool hustle plays.
among other things, you apparently don't know math. 38% at 3 means an expectation of 1.14 points per shot. 45% at a fadeaway 2 from Giannis means an expectation of 0.90 points per shot.
The number of guys shooting over 45% (8 in the league) are either flukes (like Portis probably is), guys that are overall negatives in spite of their shooting (like Forbes or Kennard have been this season) or unicorns like Joe Harris.
The bucks are 10 points better when DDV is on the court. The bucks are 9.6 points WORSE when Forbes is on the court.
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emunney wrote:Donte's getting better...
Interesting how much he was initiating offense last game, testing him out more before before pulling the trigger on a DJA trade?
emunney wrote:
We need a man shaped like a chicken nugget with the shot selection of a 21st birthday party.
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
if you combined jabari parker, royal ivey, a shrimp and a ball sack youd have javon carter
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Re: PG Knicks: Bryn Curry
Donte is WAY better than Forbes, like that’s crazy talk. Guy like Forbes should be playing in China with Jimmer, the fact the league has been altered to make room for guys like him while pushing out traditional bigs is a joke.
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Re: PG Knicks: Bryn Curry
giannis and 1 wrote:Let's not forget that Forbes gets sheltered more than DDV due to his pitiful defensive ability, and therefore plays against a lower quality of competition than DDV, who obviously plays against tougher opponents since he's a starter.
When Giannis kicks out of a triple team, is Donte less wide open than Forbes? No.
Now I know there aren't a lot of guys who can hit 50% on wide open 3s, but what I'm saying is is that if we can't get another superstar that actually takes heat of Giannis even in high pressure playoff games, than the other option we might win with is getting those cold blooded shooters somehow and put them on the floor with Giannis so they CANT double him. It's not too difficult if you focus. I understand that it took like 3 1sts to upgrade Bledsoe to Bledsoe that can hit big shots and now we have to trade Donte and 3 seconds for a Donte that can hit big shots.
And furthermore, Forbes is on the team.. let's let him shoot some big shots and see if he has the balls or not. Pat C, for all the sh#t we give him has actually made a few crunchtime 3s lately but I'd like to see more consistency. We can't have the 1 for 6 days.
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Re: PG Knicks: Bryn Curry
DrWood wrote:-Jragon- wrote:DrWood wrote:He's shooting 38% from 3. If that's not good enough, your perspective might be skewed. Forbes is bad at basketball, but good at shooting 3s.
38% for a volume shooter that pulls up on dudes isn't the same 38% that Donte shoots since he only shoots wide open kickouts from. If you have an MVP with the gravity of Giannis that you're shooting wide the F open then you need to be close to 50% or Giannis might as well never pass and can probably make 40%+ of his fadeaways. Furthermore, if Giannis can't trust him to make that shot he shouldn't be on the floor with him regardless of his cool hustle plays.
among other things, you apparently don't know math. 38% at 3 means an expectation of 1.14 points per shot. 45% at a fadeaway 2 from Giannis means an expectation of 0.90 points per shot.
The number of guys shooting over 45% (8 in the league) are either flukes (like Portis probably is), guys that are overall negatives in spite of their shooting (like Forbes or Kennard have been this season) or unicorns like Joe Harris.
The bucks are 10 points better when DDV is on the court. The bucks are 9.6 points WORSE when Forbes is on the court.
I didn't do the math, point was that if those dudes can't make the shot he might as well start forcing his own shots and we'll bt playing Westbrook ball.
A. Get some shooters with nuts to play with Giannis so they can't double
B. Get another superstar like the Nets did or C. Trade Giannis to a team that will do one of those and stop wasting his years.
A Seems most realistic since only our SG can't shoot we're almost there
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Re: PG Knicks: Bryn Curry
-Jragon- wrote:
I didn't do the math, point was that if those dudes can't make the shot he might as well start forcing his own shots and we'll bt playing Westbrook ball.
A. Get some shooters with nuts to play with Giannis so they can't double
B. Get another superstar like the Nets did or C. Trade Giannis to a team that will do one of those and stop wasting his years.
A Seems most realistic since only our SG can't shoot we're almost there
Giannis has been the one not doing his part in that relationship far more often than the shooters surrounding him this year. The Bucks are 4th in the league in 3-point percentage on high volume despite Giannis being 5th on the team in attempts, and he spent the better part of the first month trying to be Kobe instead of just passing to the open shooter.
Wut we've got here is... faaailure... to communakate.