PG: Nets Edge Out Bucks in Game 2

BucksFanSD · Post #501 » by **BucksFanSD** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:08 pm

A new coach and a possibility of Nwora in the starting line up next year makes me hopeful.

For Giannis, he needs to use regular season games to get better at starting better from the tip. He needs to be challenged on his approach to the game. His approach was better as a rookie, surprisingly. If you lag in regular season games, you may lag worse in the playoffs.

yannisk · Post #502 » by **yannisk** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:17 pm

We need a coach that can hold players accountable for their bad habits, somebody has to tell Giannis that if he takes another 3p shot 5 second offense he does not play in the next two games. Kidd for all his shortcomings could do that.

Then we need a floor general or a great scorer SG (ideally both but I cannot think we can get even one). We don't have a creator Giannis, Jrue, Middleton pretend to be play makers but neither is particularly good. If we had Paul instead of Jrue I believe we would function significantly better on offense. But there are not many great PGs most are short SGs. A dynamic scoring guard could also work a Mitchel, a Beal, a Murray, a Booker ofc there is no way to get any of those even if we trade Middleton plus whatever draft picks we are left.

So I don't think there is much hope with the current core. Therefore I would trade Giannis if we could get an all star a starter and some picks. I think we will get at this discussion in a years time. Bucks will change coach, give it another try and if the result is not at least a final's appearance it will be time for a Giannis trade.

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #503 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:24 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
emunney wrote:We don't need a player better than Giannis, we need somebody who can calmly handle the ball and stabilize us. Filling that role by committee and taking it play by play based on matchups is not stable enough.

do you have examples of guys i can mull on for this role?

Malcolm Brogdon or Prime (he's washed now) George Hill.

you practically think giannis would change the way he plays and hand the keys over to guys like this?

BucksRule18 · Post #504 » by **BucksRule18** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:26 pm

yannisk wrote:We need a coach that can hold players accountable for their bad habits, somebody has to tell Giannis that if he takes another 3p shot 5 second offense he does not play in the next two games. Kidd for all his shortcomings could do that.

Then we need a floor general or a great scorer SG (ideally both but I cannot think we can get even one). We don't have a creator Giannis, Jrue, Middleton pretend to be play makers but neither is particularly good. If we had Paul instead of Jrue I believe we would function significantly better on offense. But there are not many great PGs most are short SGs. A dynamic scoring guard could also work a Mitchel, a Beal, a Murray, a Booker ofc there is no way to get any of those even if we trade Middleton plus whatever draft picks we are left.

So I don't think there is much hope with the current core. Therefore I would trade Giannis if we could get an all star a starter and some picks. I think we will get at this discussion in a years time. Bucks will change coach, give it another try and if the result is not at least a final's appearance it will be time for a Giannis trade.

I still think that no matter what you still wait for Giannis to ask for the trade. If by some miracle we get another superstar in the future we don't want them bailing on us because we did Giannis wrong and traded him one year after he signed the supermax extension. In all honesty, we're screwed no matter what. At this point I would concentrate on replacing Bud and swapping Middleton for a true point guard. Maybe there's a team out there that still sees Middleton as a centerpiece.

Ron Swanson · Post #505 » by **Ron Swanson** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:30 pm

Anyone even suggesting a Giannis trade is out of their mind. He's literally the only reason another superstar would entertain coming to Milwaukee.

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #506 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:49 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Anyone even suggesting a Giannis trade is out of their mind. He's literally the only reason another superstar would entertain coming to Milwaukee.

what good does that do if he prefers the likes of olidipo and bogs over paul and harden? we literally witnessed this with all 4 players inside of a year

machu46 · Post #507 » by **machu46** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:52 pm

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Anyone even suggesting a Giannis trade is out of their mind. He's literally the only reason another superstar would entertain coming to Milwaukee.

what good does that do if he prefers the likes of olidipo and bogs over paul and harden? we literally witnessed this with all 4 players inside of a year

I don't think it's really a shock that a lot of people dislike Paul and Harden. It's on the record that Giannis would love to play with Damian Lillard and he's pretty good at basketball IMO.

Yes, I know we will never get Lillard. But it's silly to think Giannis just doesn't want to play with other good players.

BucksRule18 · Post #508 » by **BucksRule18** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:54 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Anyone even suggesting a Giannis trade is out of their mind. He's literally the only reason another superstar would entertain coming to Milwaukee.

No matter what people say on these boards, this is a moot point. Giannis will be in Milwaukee as long as he wants.

With that being said, Giannis really needs to fix his FT shooting woes during the offseason. Not sure what he worked on in Greece last summer but this has to be top priority. If he can shoot 70-75%, I think he'll have a lot more confidence in close game situations. He also needs to pick a routine and stick with it.

machu46 · Post #509 » by **machu46** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:57 pm

BucksRule18 wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Anyone even suggesting a Giannis trade is out of their mind. He's literally the only reason another superstar would entertain coming to Milwaukee.

No matter what people say on these boards, this is a moot point. Giannis will be in Milwaukee as long as he wants.

With that being said, Giannis really needs to fix his FT shooting woes during the offseason. Not sure what he worked on in Greece last summer but this has to be top priority. If he can shoot 70-75%, I think he'll have a lot more confidence in close game situations. He also needs to pick a routine and stick with it.

I think his shooting is a lost cause at this point. There's so many things that are broken in his mechanics; I think he'd have to take a year or two off from basketball to relearn how to shoot. Would be better IMO for him to just focus on continuing to develop his off-ball game.

yannisk · Post #510 » by **yannisk** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 7:05 pm

machu46 wrote:
BucksRule18 wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Anyone even suggesting a Giannis trade is out of their mind. He's literally the only reason another superstar would entertain coming to Milwaukee.

No matter what people say on these boards, this is a moot point. Giannis will be in Milwaukee as long as he wants.

With that being said, Giannis really needs to fix his FT shooting woes during the offseason. Not sure what he worked on in Greece last summer but this has to be top priority. If he can shoot 70-75%, I think he'll have a lot more confidence in close game situations. He also needs to pick a routine and stick with it.

I think his shooting is a lost cause at this point. There's so many things that are broken in his mechanics; I think he'd have to take a year or two off from basketball to relearn how to shoot. Would be better IMO for him to just focus on continuing to develop his off-ball game.

He came in the NBA as a 75% Ft shooter and 35% 3p shooter (admittedly in low volume) then the Bucks decided to change his shooting mechanics (maybe they were right) but without bringing an established shooting coach. So they changed his shooting and had Sweeny shooting around with him. I have no doubt that if he was drafted by Spurs he would be a completely different player (not necessarily better in everything) but very different

yannisk · Post #511 » by **yannisk** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 7:11 pm

BucksRule18 wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Once again, you could have traded for Paul, still kept George Hill as the backup, and still own half the picks you gave up for Jrue. You couldn't have used the bi-annual exception on Portis so maybe he's gone, you couldn't have signed Pat without going over the tax, and you don't get the pick that turns into Sam Merrill (whatever), but this is the only missed opportunity that I care about considering we don't have to go back 6 years just to play the butterfly effect "what if" game. Do I think we win this series if that'd happened? Idk, maybe. Do I think we'd have at least be sitting here with a split series 1-1 with Harden being out both games and not looking completely shell-shocked going back home? Yeah, probably.

I honestly think Giannis would clash with Paul. He likes being the team leader and Paul is too vocal We brought in Jrue to be the ball handler and Giannis is still dominating the ball. Like I noted before, Giannis thinks he's Kobe and there's nothing anyone can tell him to convince him otherwise. I wish he had that much confidence shooting FT's.

if he thought he was Kobe he wouldn't have shot 15 shots last game but 25 especially not stopping at 8/15. Also I wish Jrue could play the pnr with Giannis it would give us a lot of easy baskets, unfortunately I have not seen some great playmaking/creativity from Jrue

BucksRule18 · Post #512 » by **BucksRule18** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 7:12 pm

machu46 wrote:
BucksRule18 wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Anyone even suggesting a Giannis trade is out of their mind. He's literally the only reason another superstar would entertain coming to Milwaukee.

No matter what people say on these boards, this is a moot point. Giannis will be in Milwaukee as long as he wants.

With that being said, Giannis really needs to fix his FT shooting woes during the offseason. Not sure what he worked on in Greece last summer but this has to be top priority. If he can shoot 70-75%, I think he'll have a lot more confidence in close game situations. He also needs to pick a routine and stick with it.

I think his shooting is a lost cause at this point. There's so many things that are broken in his mechanics; I think he'd have to take a year or two off from basketball to relearn how to shoot. Would be better IMO for him to just focus on continuing to develop his off-ball game.

I think someone needs to sit down with him and explain why it's so important for him to play more of an off ball game if he can't get his shooting / FT percentages up. With his personality I just don't see him buying into that. Will he accept an AD type role with this team? Maybe if we got Lillard (which won't happen) he'd accept that type of role, but I'm 100% sure he's not ceding that role to a Middleton or Holiday.

machu46 · Post #513 » by **machu46** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 7:15 pm

yannisk wrote:
machu46 wrote:
BucksRule18 wrote:
No matter what people say on these boards, this is a moot point. Giannis will be in Milwaukee as long as he wants.

With that being said, Giannis really needs to fix his FT shooting woes during the offseason. Not sure what he worked on in Greece last summer but this has to be top priority. If he can shoot 70-75%, I think he'll have a lot more confidence in close game situations. He also needs to pick a routine and stick with it.

I think his shooting is a lost cause at this point. There's so many things that are broken in his mechanics; I think he'd have to take a year or two off from basketball to relearn how to shoot. Would be better IMO for him to just focus on continuing to develop his off-ball game.

He came in the NBA as a 75% Ft shooter and 35% 3p shooter (admittedly in low volume) then the Bucks decided to change his shooting mechanics (maybe they were right) but without bringing an established shooting coach. So they changed his shooting and had Sweeny shooting around with him. I have no doubt that if he was drafted by Spurs he would be a completely different player (not necessarily better in everything) but very different

I think he always had a poor jumpshot and simply had a fluky rookie year. The FT shooting is a little stranger. At the end of the day, I don't really care where he once was. His mechanics are so effed now that I think it will be impossible to be a consistent free throw shooter without overhauling many different aspects of it and I have no faith that he wouldn't just revert back to old habits once real games start again like he does with a lot of his bad habits once the playoffs begin.

FrieAaron · Post #514 » by **FrieAaron** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 7:18 pm

Giannis can play off the ball and still be the best player on the court. I think years of "if Giannis could develop an outside shot..." have gotten into his head at this point.

coolhandluke121 · Post #515 » by **coolhandluke121** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 7:28 pm

FrieAaron wrote:(1)Giannis can play off the ball and still be the best player on the court. (2)I think years of "if Giannis could develop an outside shot..." have gotten into his head at this point.

1. Easily.
2. Sure looks like it.
Footnote: Yipping his FT's with Drake heckling him is starting to look like a career-defining moment for him with respect to his place among the game's superstars, at least up until this point.

emunney · Post #516 » by **emunney** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 7:29 pm

BucksFanSD wrote:A new coach and a possibility of Nwora in the starting line up next year makes me hopeful.

For Giannis, he needs to use regular season games to get better at starting better from the tip. He needs to be challenged on his approach to the game. His approach was better as a rookie, surprisingly. If you lag in regular season games, you may lag worse in the playoffs.

Nwora is to Middleton what Mike Redd was to Ray Allen.

yannisk · Post #517 » by **yannisk** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 7:30 pm

FrieAaron wrote:Giannis can play off the ball and still be the best player on the court. I think years of "if Giannis could develop an outside shot..." have gotten into his head at this point.

Giannis is a bad shooter probably never becomes even an average one but half his problems are mental. He always shoots so much worse FTs on the playoffs.

Two other players that struggled in the playoffs FTs compared to regular season are Doncic and Simmons. I am more surprised with Doncic. He shot 40% on difficult 3p, on high volume, and just 53% on FTs down from 73% in regular season. Doncic is also very experienced on high pressure games

emunney · Post #518 » by **emunney** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 7:34 pm

FrieAaron wrote:Giannis can play off the ball and still be the best player on the court. I think years of "if Giannis could develop an outside shot..." have gotten into his head at this point.

If he could be Tim Duncanny in the half court and Russell Westbrooky in transition...

EastSideBucksFan · Post #519 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 8:32 pm

emunney wrote:
BucksFanSD wrote:A new coach and a possibility of Nwora in the starting line up next year makes me hopeful.

For Giannis, he needs to use regular season games to get better at starting better from the tip. He needs to be challenged on his approach to the game. His approach was better as a rookie, surprisingly. If you lag in regular season games, you may lag worse in the playoffs.

Nwora is to Middleton what Mike Redd was to Ray Allen.

Nwora won't ever be a starter unless he makes galactic leaps on defense

Right now he's Jabari level bad.

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #520 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Wed Jun 9, 2021 8:41 pm

machu46 wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Anyone even suggesting a Giannis trade is out of their mind. He's literally the only reason another superstar would entertain coming to Milwaukee.

what good does that do if he prefers the likes of olidipo and bogs over paul and harden? we literally witnessed this with all 4 players inside of a year

I don't think it's really a shock that a lot of people dislike Paul and Harden. It's on the record that Giannis would love to play with Damian Lillard and he's pretty good at basketball IMO.

Yes, I know we will never get Lillard. But it's silly to think Giannis just doesn't want to play with other good players.

i was against paul and harden and now i horribly regret we didnt swing for one of them. they are both alphas. we need an alpha and beggars cant be choosy in this situation, and i really dont think it matters who it is. honestly somebody whose a bit of a dick if you do dumb **** might be the type of guy giannis needs