Grayson Allen to Bucks

[jakecronus8]

I feel that Grayson plays within his limits on both sides of the ball. While Donte has more natural tools (particularly lateral quickness ) on defense, he’s also prone to be more spazzy and gamble too much.

[skones]

After reading that is DDV that much better on D sounds like allen is a above average D guy

I haven't seen DDV play since the first rd of the playoffs but I can comfortably say that DDV is a good deal better.

Really do the advanced stats say DDV is A GOOD DEAL BETTER

You've consistently demonstrated that the only stat you care about in the context of Donte is PPGZZZZ. There's a reason we add Zs. It's because it's a joke of an end all be all argument. I'm not sure why you insist on bringing advanced numbers into play when you're just going to ignore them.

[Bernman]

I feel that Grayson plays within his limits on both sides of the ball. While Donte has more natural tools (particularly lateral quickness ) on defense, he’s also prone to be more spazzy and gamble too much.

There's literally nothing wrong w/ Donte's defense, other than he's a tweener. But he's practically like having 1 and a half players on the floor on d & the boards, which was particularly valuable when the rest of our team was so old.

It's lessened in value now that we aren't so old, but would still be nice to have. He's a superior defender & rebounder to Allen. However, Allen's a more reliable shooter & finisher around the goal. We committed to him. And have other more important needs.

[skones]

I feel that Grayson plays within his limits on both sides of the ball. While Donte has more natural tools (particularly lateral quickness ) on defense, he’s also prone to be more spazzy and gamble too much.

There's literally nothing wrong w/ Donte's defense, other than he's a tweener. But he's practically like having 1 and a half players on the floor on d & the boards, which was particularly valuable when the rest of our team was so old.

It's lessened in value now that we aren't so old, but would still be nice to have. He's a vastly superior defender & rebounder to Allen. However, Allen's a more reliable shooter & finisher around the goal. We committed to him. And have other more important needs.

I still think Donte can be molded into a PG. He's shown flashes in that regard. He's smart enough out of the basic pick and roll. He's just a unique player, and having a jackknife at the position could pay dividends. Obviously the problem is his health. I view Allen as a strict two. I don't necessarily view the situation as one or the other. We need guys who can still grow into players and extend our window.

If Donte comes back and is productive, I think the move is to pay him. You have him, Grayson, and Portis on the squad as valuable contributors. They'll be young enough to have value, and be paid enough to nickel and dime together (thinking around 30M for the three) in a package to eventually increase your overall top end talent.

[Shaffty]

I havnt heard alot of negative comnents toward allens D this year yet

you havent met his wife then

[thonnisbeastley]

I feel that Grayson plays within his limits on both sides of the ball. While Donte has more natural tools (particularly lateral quickness ) on defense, he’s also prone to be more spazzy and gamble too much.

There's literally nothing wrong w/ Donte's defense, other than he's a tweener. But he's practically like having 1 and a half players on the floor on d & the boards, which was particularly valuable when the rest of our team was so old.

It's lessened in value now that we aren't so old, but would still be nice to have. He's a vastly superior defender & rebounder to Allen. However, Allen's a more reliable shooter & finisher around the goal. We committed to him. And have other more important needs.

I still think Donte can be molded into a PG. He's shown flashes in that regard. He's smart enough out of the basic pick and roll. He's just a unique player, and having a jackknife at the position could pay dividends. Obviously the problem is his health. I view Allen as a strict two. I don't necessarily view the situation as one or the other. We need guys who can still grow into players and extend our window.

If Donte comes back and is productive, I think the move is to pay him. You have him, Grayson, and Portis on the squad as valuable contributors. They'll be young enough to have value, and be paid enough to nickel and dime together (thinking around 30M for the three) in a package to eventually increase your overall top end talent.

If Pat/Bobby opt-out of their deals there will be no money left for Donte. Pat is almost an automatic re-sign at this point but Bobby might end up being too expensive for us tbh, especially if we're still holding onto Brook's contract. I think it would be better to package Donte/Brook/Nwora/2nds for the best available big man/package this season. Brook is likely done. Allen is a better fit than Donte, mainly bc of shooting/size. Nwora is out of the rotation. Find one guy hopefully signed through next season that will contribute during the playoffs. Then re-sign Pat/Bobby. I think they're both too valuable to our team at this point, and I hated the Pat C contract when it was announced..

[skones]

There's literally nothing wrong w/ Donte's defense, other than he's a tweener. But he's practically like having 1 and a half players on the floor on d & the boards, which was particularly valuable when the rest of our team was so old.

It's lessened in value now that we aren't so old, but would still be nice to have. He's a vastly superior defender & rebounder to Allen. However, Allen's a more reliable shooter & finisher around the goal. We committed to him. And have other more important needs.

I still think Donte can be molded into a PG. He's shown flashes in that regard. He's smart enough out of the basic pick and roll. He's just a unique player, and having a jackknife at the position could pay dividends. Obviously the problem is his health. I view Allen as a strict two. I don't necessarily view the situation as one or the other. We need guys who can still grow into players and extend our window.

If Donte comes back and is productive, I think the move is to pay him. You have him, Grayson, and Portis on the squad as valuable contributors. They'll be young enough to have value, and be paid enough to nickel and dime together (thinking around 30M for the three) in a package to eventually increase your overall top end talent.

If Pat/Bobby opt-out of their deals there will be no money left for Donte. Pat is almost an automatic re-sign at this point but Bobby might end up being too expensive for us tbh, especially if we're still holding onto Brook's contract. I think it would be better to package Donte/Brook/Nwora/2nds for the best available big man/package this season. Brook is likely done. Allen is a better fit than Donte, mainly bc of shooting/size. Nwora is out of the rotation. Find one guy hopefully signed through next season that will contribute during the playoffs. Then re-sign Pat/Bobby. I think they're both too valuable to our team at this point, and I hated the Pat C contract when it was announced..

Pat and Bobby will certainly opt out of their deals. The number I threw out assumes that. Bobby coming back almost certainly had an under the table agreement attached to it. We'll be throwing him a long term deal starting at 9.5 or whatever the max early bird number is and saying, "We get it if you get a larger offer, but this is the max we can do." We have full bird on Pat, and Donte is a RFA. Bobby is the one that "no money will be left for" because we're capped on what we can pay.

None of what you said actually takes into account what I said btw.

Also, Donte/Brook/Nwora/2nds. Package grinds my gears and it's not only you. You legitimately say, "Brook is likely done." Nwora is out of the rotation. Donte hasn't played a game yet. Do people honestly think they're being smart when they put that package together and say, "hmmm, let's get something for this." You've got a bag full of red flags and it's like folks around here have convinced themselves that they see it, but other teams will not.

PS. Donte and Allen both measured at 6'4.5 so "shooting/size" on the size end of things is Nick Young gif.

[thonnisbeastley]

I still think Donte can be molded into a PG. He's shown flashes in that regard. He's smart enough out of the basic pick and roll. He's just a unique player, and having a jackknife at the position could pay dividends. Obviously the problem is his health. I view Allen as a strict two. I don't necessarily view the situation as one or the other. We need guys who can still grow into players and extend our window.

If Donte comes back and is productive, I think the move is to pay him. You have him, Grayson, and Portis on the squad as valuable contributors. They'll be young enough to have value, and be paid enough to nickel and dime together (thinking around 30M for the three) in a package to eventually increase your overall top end talent.

If Pat/Bobby opt-out of their deals there will be no money left for Donte. Pat is almost an automatic re-sign at this point but Bobby might end up being too expensive for us tbh, especially if we're still holding onto Brook's contract. I think it would be better to package Donte/Brook/Nwora/2nds for the best available big man/package this season. Brook is likely done. Allen is a better fit than Donte, mainly bc of shooting/size. Nwora is out of the rotation. Find one guy hopefully signed through next season that will contribute during the playoffs. Then re-sign Pat/Bobby. I think they're both too valuable to our team at this point, and I hated the Pat C contract when it was announced..

Pat and Bobby will certainly opt out of their deals. The number I threw out assumes that. Bobby coming back almost certainly had an under the table agreement attached to it. We'll be throwing him a long term deal starting at 9.5 or whatever the max early bird number is and saying, "We get it if you get a larger offer, but this is the max we can do." We have full bird on Pat, and Donte is a RFA. Bobby is the one that "no money will be left for" because we're capped on what we can pay.

None of what you said actually takes into account what I said btw.

Also, Donte/Brook/Nwora/2nds. Package grinds my gears and it's not only you. You legitimately say, "Brook is likely done." Nwora is out of the rotation. Donte hasn't played a game yet. Do people honestly think they're being smart when they put that package together and say, "hmmm, let's get something for this." You've got a bag full of red flags and it's like folks around here have convinced themselves that they see it, but other teams will not.

PS. Donte and Allen both measured at 6'4.5 so "shooting/size" on the size end of things is Nick Young gif.

No, I understood what you meant. I don't really see Bobby getting less than $12m/year, but I would rather give up Donte right now with Allen under contract in order to help re-sign Bobby next season. Signing all three of them to use in a trade 3 months later for a 1 player upgrade leaves us with Brook, Thanasis, and Hill on the bench.

-Brook is likely done, but we see teams taking on contracts like his all of the time as filler in order to get rid of pieces they don't want. He'd probably be bought out.
-Donte still has high trade value, this season at least. I guess my point was with Allen under contract and PatC prioritized over him he's expendable. He's also the only valuable piece we have to offer if we want to upgrade our roster.
-Nwora is still really young and has proven he can score. I'm willing to bet multiple teams with available playing time would be interested in taking a flyer on him. His lack of playing time can easily be written off as playing for the Champs under a veteran-favoring head coach. Yeah he's awful defensively and has tunnel-vision, but he also still has "potential"

It's not that people think they're being smart when they put this package together. It's really more along the lines of this is the only realistic package that can be put together given the circumstances.

[skones]

No, I understood what you meant. I don't really see Bobby getting less than $12m/year, but I would rather give up Donte right now with Allen under contract in order to help re-sign Bobby next season. Signing all three of them to use in a trade 3 months later for a 1 player upgrade leaves us with Brook, Thanasis, and Hill on the bench.

-Brook is likely done, but we see teams taking on contracts like his all of the time as filler in order to get rid of pieces they don't want. He'd probably be bought out.
-Donte still has high trade value, this season at least. I guess my point was with Allen under contract and PatC prioritized over him he's expendable. He's also the only valuable piece we have to offer if we want to upgrade our roster.
-Nwora is still really young and has proven he can score. I'm willing to bet multiple teams with available playing time would be interested in taking a flyer on him. His lack of playing time can easily be written off as playing for the Champs under a veteran-favoring head coach. Yeah he's awful defensively and has tunnel-vision, but he also still has "potential"

It's not that people think they're being smart when they put this package together. It's really more along the lines of this is the only realistic package that can be put together given the circumstances.

That's not the way it works. Letting Donte go doesn't free up more money for Bobby in the sense that the maximum we will still be able to offer him with be the average salary in the NBA according to the early bird provision. If you can't see Bobby getting less than 12 million a year, then he is gone. It's as simple as that. Bobby needs to play one more season with us in order to cash in here in Milwaukee.

I don't think Donte's trade value is very high right now as a result of the injury and his contractual situation. He has to prove a lot of things in a very short period of time in order for a team to A) assign trade value to him at current and B) be willing to pay the man. His impending free agency dings his value quite a bit. Teams that like him will be just as likely to offer him a deal in the offseason and say, put up or shut up.

And again, it's the most realistic package sure. Then we need to talk about realistic targets. Myles Turner is not one of them.

Also, nobody said to sign them and move them a month later. They just give us longer term ammunition.

[Isocleas2]

I don't really see the point in trading Donte now, his value isn't going to rise to the point of netting us a piece more useful than Donte already is.

Also he's restricted, if he plays phenomenally you can always sign and trade him in the offseason Ala Brogdon for some picks/trade ammo. Or match and you have a great guard combo with Allen + holiday (maybe pat).

The Bucks shouldn't throw a way a valuable controllable asset for a minor increase in odds at a championship this year.

[HKPackFan]

I don't really see the point in trading Donte now, his value isn't going to rise to the point of netting us a piece more useful than Donte already is.

Also he's restricted, if he plays phenomenally you can always sign and trade him in the offseason Ala Brogdon for some picks/trade ammo. Or match and you have a great guard combo with Allen + holiday (maybe pat).

The Bucks shouldn't throw a way a valuable controllable asset for a minor increase in odds at a championship this year.

Need all your dogs to run it back to repeat. I say let it ride all the way to those 16 wins and it's all gravy after that.

I like the sign and trade idea after getting the second ring.

[thonnisbeastley]

No, I understood what you meant. I don't really see Bobby getting less than $12m/year, but I would rather give up Donte right now with Allen under contract in order to help re-sign Bobby next season. Signing all three of them to use in a trade 3 months later for a 1 player upgrade leaves us with Brook, Thanasis, and Hill on the bench.

-Brook is likely done, but we see teams taking on contracts like his all of the time as filler in order to get rid of pieces they don't want. He'd probably be bought out.
-Donte still has high trade value, this season at least. I guess my point was with Allen under contract and PatC prioritized over him he's expendable. He's also the only valuable piece we have to offer if we want to upgrade our roster.
-Nwora is still really young and has proven he can score. I'm willing to bet multiple teams with available playing time would be interested in taking a flyer on him. His lack of playing time can easily be written off as playing for the Champs under a veteran-favoring head coach. Yeah he's awful defensively and has tunnel-vision, but he also still has "potential"

It's not that people think they're being smart when they put this package together. It's really more along the lines of this is the only realistic package that can be put together given the circumstances.

That's not the way it works. Letting Donte go doesn't free up more money for Bobby in the sense that the maximum we will still be able to offer him with be the average salary in the NBA according to the early bird provision. If you can't see Bobby getting less than 12 million a year, then he is gone. It's as simple as that. Bobby needs to play one more season with us in order to cash in here in Milwaukee.

I don't think Donte's trade value is very high right now as a result of the injury and his contractual situation. He has to prove a lot of things in a very short period of time in order for a team to A) assign trade value to him at current and B) be willing to pay the man. His impending free agency dings his value quite a bit. Teams that like him will be just as likely to offer him a deal in the offseason and say, put up or shut up.

And again, it's the most realistic package sure. Then we need to talk about realistic targets. Myles Turner is not one of them.

Also, nobody said to sign them and move them a month later. They just give us longer term ammunition.

What I'm saying is it allows us to add a player to the roster at a different position that will contribute right now and be here next season. Someone who we won't be able to sign via FA next season due to our cap limit. There's no point in re-signing both of Donte/Pat with Allen here next season. Not when we are so thin in the front court.

I personally think Donte's trade value will be at it's highest this season, at the trade deadline, if he's able to come back and perform at his normal level. Once we sign him to a 4/40-48 deal he becomes almost untradeable and we're pretty much forced to let Pat go while trading Allen before his deal runs out. Signing Donte pretty much kills our short term future(championship window).

[skones]

What I'm saying is it allows us to add a player to the roster at a different position that will contribute right now and be here next season. Someone who we won't be able to sign via FA next season due to our cap limit. There's no point in re-signing both of Donte/Pat with Allen here next season. Not when we are so thin in the front court.

I personally think Donte's trade value will be at it's highest this season, at the trade deadline, if he's able to come back and perform at his normal level. Once we sign him to a 4/40-48 deal he becomes almost untradeable and we're pretty much forced to let Pat go while trading Allen before his deal runs out. Signing Donte pretty much kills our short term future(championship window).

Again, that's not the way it works. Donte will be an RFA. Bobby will be early bird. Pat will be bird. None of this affects the amount of money we have elsewhere for external free agents. It will be up to ownership to decide how deep into the lux tax we go. The argument you're making would be relevant if we were hard up on roster spots. We won't be.

[jmuelly]

No, I understood what you meant. I don't really see Bobby getting less than $12m/year, but I would rather give up Donte right now with Allen under contract in order to help re-sign Bobby next season. Signing all three of them to use in a trade 3 months later for a 1 player upgrade leaves us with Brook, Thanasis, and Hill on the bench.

-Brook is likely done, but we see teams taking on contracts like his all of the time as filler in order to get rid of pieces they don't want. He'd probably be bought out.
-Donte still has high trade value, this season at least. I guess my point was with Allen under contract and PatC prioritized over him he's expendable. He's also the only valuable piece we have to offer if we want to upgrade our roster.
-Nwora is still really young and has proven he can score. I'm willing to bet multiple teams with available playing time would be interested in taking a flyer on him. His lack of playing time can easily be written off as playing for the Champs under a veteran-favoring head coach. Yeah he's awful defensively and has tunnel-vision, but he also still has "potential"

It's not that people think they're being smart when they put this package together. It's really more along the lines of this is the only realistic package that can be put together given the circumstances.

That's not the way it works. Letting Donte go doesn't free up more money for Bobby in the sense that the maximum we will still be able to offer him with be the average salary in the NBA according to the early bird provision. If you can't see Bobby getting less than 12 million a year, then he is gone. It's as simple as that. Bobby needs to play one more season with us in order to cash in here in Milwaukee.

I don't think Donte's trade value is very high right now as a result of the injury and his contractual situation. He has to prove a lot of things in a very short period of time in order for a team to A) assign trade value to him at current and B) be willing to pay the man. His impending free agency dings his value quite a bit. Teams that like him will be just as likely to offer him a deal in the offseason and say, put up or shut up.

And again, it's the most realistic package sure. Then we need to talk about realistic targets. Myles Turner is not one of them.

Also, nobody said to sign them and move them a month later. They just give us longer term ammunition.

What I'm saying is it allows us to add a player to the roster at a different position that will contribute right now and be here next season. Someone who we won't be able to sign via FA next season due to our cap limit. There's no point in re-signing both of Donte/Pat with Allen here next season. Not when we are so thin in the front court.

I personally think Donte's trade value will be at it's highest this season, at the trade deadline, if he's able to come back and perform at his normal level. Once we sign him to a 4/40-48 deal he becomes almost untradeable and we're pretty much forced to let Pat go while trading Allen before his deal runs out. Signing Donte pretty much kills our short term future(championship window).

You really have no clue how the cap works do you?