Does Larry K Hate Charlie V?

[Buck You]

Really. He makes one boneheaded play and he's out of the game for a huge stretch. Anyone else on the team makes a boneheaded defensive play and it seems like they get to stay in the game as long as they want. I realize that Charlie V isn't the brightest or most motivated player in the world but the guy certainly has talent. I think Larry K has a personal vendetta against this guy. Is it possible that Larry K just doesn't like him like he hated Patterson? Also is it possible that what Larry K said at the start of the season, "If you don't play defense, you're not going to play." Was really aimed at only Charlie V? Because it sure seems that way so far. Or am I just a moron who knows nothing about the game of basketball?

[blkout]

Larry K said at the start of the season, "If you don't play defense, you're not going to play."

I think he's had to take that back somewhat as the league rules state you aren't allowed to only play 2 guys on the court at a time.

[wildsky_chen]

Trade Yi. Then I think CV will get more minutes.

[winterforever]

Trade Yi. Then I think CV will get more minutes.

I heard that Dan Fegan is working on it.

[BucksRuleAll22]

CV has been playing very good latley, and Yi seems like hes in a little slump which is fine bc he is a rookie. I think CV should be starting and everyone knows I love Yi.

Makes me woundering if the Bucks accually have a deal in place with the Chinesse that Yi has to get so many miutes a game, bc CV should really be playing more.

[jerrod]

i honestly think he might have some kind of grudge against cv

[paul]

i honestly think he might have some kind of grudge against cv

Agreed. I've been calling for CV to start since the start of the season, but the past month it's just got to the point of being obsurd. He'd be starting ahead of Yi on any other team in the league right now.

[carmelbrownqueen]

Honestly I don't think Larry Kryskowiak "hates" Charlive Villaneuva. If anything, I believe he doesn't like Charlie's fit with this team (and never did) and is losing faith in his ability to develop into the player that he is capable of being.

Let's think about this for a moment... CV's most consistent contributions come when he is being allowed to shoot himself unconcious whether as a starter or bench player. He prefers playing on the perimeter, and will rebound the ball a little bit when his shot is going. He ventures inside sometimes but never for long stretches and lacks a willingness to work hard or make long lasting changes. He is completely offense focused and isn't a bring your hardhat to a game type of guy (which is more Coach K's mentality). He will not defend, focus or hustle for more than a few minutes in any given game. Even when CV has a good game, it's always somewhat negated by the fact that he has typically failed to defend his opponent resulting in them having an even better game. He is the complete opposite of everything that this team needs.. and I firmly believe that Larry Harris and Larry Kryskowiak both thought this even before the season started.

The thing about Charlie is that he will say all the right stuff but he seldom does it.. therefore what do you want Coach to do with that? As of right now our starting lineup consists of Mo Williams & Michael Redd (effective scorers who struggle with defense), Andrew Bogut (has confidence issues, has become a better defender but not a better offensive player), Yi (a rookie who shows flashes of a developing well rounded game), and Desmond Mason/Bobby Simmons (neither of which has played well on the offensive side of the court all season long). Before the start of the season, Coach Kryskowiak was very clear that he felt this team needed a big beefy defense minded guy at the PF position, as either a starter or backup (really didn't matter). Before we drafted Yi, he seemed to have been in love with Al Horford's game and truthfully Horford is more his kind of player. However we weren't the only team in the league in need of a player like that.. and we couldn't get get our hands on anyone to fill that role for us, it's my thought that regardless of who the GM is this summer that will again be the focus in our efforts to improve the team.

Once we drafted Yi, he wa pleasantly surprised (I think) and happy with the fact that Yi was a better all around player than advertised and quickly threw him in as a starter because he was getting more of what he wanted from him than CV. I think the thought is that we have enough guys who can shoot the ball, but struggle to defend. And further, if we are going to improve, it will have to come from putting guys around our starters who are productive and defense minded contributors that play with intensity and passion. Those aren't words you use to describe Charlie Villaneuva on the basketball court and it shows more and more each game. He's great at throwing down a dunk and showing emotion but he seldom plays the way that Coach K wants him to play. If Coach can't get what he wants from him.. then CV won't play, that's pretty much the bottom line, and it's frustrating for everyone but I think that's just the way it is.

Maybe Yi is struggling right now but he still hustles and attempts to give the Coach more of what he wants than CV. Some will say, if you put Charlie V. out there when we are struggling to score maybe he can at least score us some points.. but even when CV has stats that make more fans on this board happy unless he was defending at a high level, then I would guess that most of the coaching staff still aren't happy with him. It isn't a "hate" thing.. it's more that this isn't the only thing we need. We need more. We need something from our backups that not only supports the starters but at times maybe even eclipses what we get from the starters.

If Mo Williams and Michael Redd aren't defending the way he needs them too.. then Coach K needs to have faith in and productive bench players that CAN and WILL give him more than a few points on the board. Right now, he doesn't have that. Some have blasted Coach K for what they perceive as a lack of commitment to benching players who don't play defense.. but think about it. If for example, you bench Michael Redd and Mo Williams on a night where they just aren't defending well... Who the hell are we going to put in that can not only help us win the ball game by scoring but also defending every night????? This season we haven't had guys like that where he could do that. If Coach K says F the result of the game and let's just play Royal Ivey, Michael Ruffin, and Charlie Bell.. and none of them can consistently give us what we need offensively then he still risks his job because ultimately winning is all that matters in this league. He can't sacrifice wins while trying to teach Mo, Mike, and anyone else a lesson about being consistent defenders. So even when Yi is struggling out there.. just having him on the floor trying to use his length means more many nights than what we get from CV at times. Maybe his scoring could help at times, but if he isn't trying hard at anything else then why play him

Ultimately what this team lacks is good backups at all positions and a good starter at the SF position. If we are going to succeed, then we need more than what we are getting from Charlie Bell, Bobby Simmons, Charlie Villanueva, and Dan Gadzuric. We can't win until we get it.. and that doesn't have anything to do with "hating" a player.

[Chapter29]

Charlie V is what he is. A backup PF who is very inconsistent.

Larry K is doing exactly what he should do with him. When he plays well he gets 25 mpg, when he does not he gets 15 or less.

The better CV plays the more minutes he will earn.

Larry doesn't hate CV, he simply is playing him the way I feel most coaches would. I disagree completely that he would be starting on most other team ahead of Yi. Yi is a marketable commodity and most coaches and GM's would realize that. You need to play him up and keep the fan interest peaked. If anything they may work him more than we do, but I think most if not all would start Yi over CV. Yi works hard and focuses. He is showing a solid learning curve and is already ahead of CV in the BB smarts department.

[kebzach]

Charlie V is what he is. A backup PF who is very inconsistent.

Larry K is doing exactly what he should do with him. When he plays well he gets 25 mpg, when he does not he gets 15 or less.

The better CV plays the more minutes he will earn.

Larry doesn't hate CV, he simply is playing him the way I feel most coaches would. I disagree completely that he would be starting on most other team ahead of Yi. Yi is a marketable commodity and most coaches and GM's would realize that. You need to play him up and keep the fan interest peaked. If anything they may work him more than we do, but I think most if not all would start Yi over CV. Yi works hard and focuses. He is showing a solid learning curve and is already ahead of CV in the BB smarts department.

Agreed all around.

[Kablooie]

Honestly I don't think Larry Kryskowiak "hates" Charlive Villaneuva. If anything, I believe he doesn't like Charlie's fit with this team (and never did) and is losing faith in his ability to develop into the player that he is capable of being.

Let's think about this for a moment... CV's most consistent contributions come when he is being allowed to shoot himself unconcious whether as a starter or bench player. He prefers playing on the perimeter, and will rebound the ball a little bit when his shot is going. He ventures inside sometimes but never for long stretches and lacks a willingness to work hard or make long lasting changes. He is completely offense focused and isn't a bring your hardhat to a game type of guy (which is more Coach K's mentality). He will not defend, focus or hustle for more than a few minutes in any given game. Even when CV has a good game, it's always somewhat negated by the fact that he has typically failed to defend his opponent resulting in them having an even better game. He is the complete opposite of everything that this team needs.. and I firmly believe that Larry Harris and Larry Kryskowiak both thought this even before the season started.

The thing about Charlie is that he will say all the right stuff but he seldom does it.. therefore what do you want Coach to do with that? As of right now our starting lineup consists of Mo Williams & Michael Redd (effective scorers who struggle with defense), Andrew Bogut (has confidence issues, has become a better defender but not a better offensive player), Yi (a rookie who shows flashes of a developing well rounded game), and Desmond Mason/Bobby Simmons (neither of which has played well on the offensive side of the court all season long). Before the start of the season, Coach Kryskowiak was very clear that he felt this team needed a big beefy defense minded guy at the PF position, as either a starter or backup (really didn't matter). Before we drafted Yi, he seemed to have been in love with Al Horford's game and truthfully Horford is more his kind of player. However we weren't the only team in the league in need of a player like that.. and we couldn't get get our hands on anyone to fill that role for us, it's my thought that regardless of who the GM is this summer that will again be the focus in our efforts to improve the team.

Once we drafted Yi, he wa pleasantly surprised (I think) and happy with the fact that Yi was a better all around player than advertised and quickly threw him in as a starter because he was getting more of what he wanted from him than CV. I think the thought is that we have enough guys who can shoot the ball, but struggle to defend. And further, if we are going to improve, it will have to come from putting guys around our starters who are productive and defense minded contributors that play with intensity and passion. Those aren't words you use to describe Charlie Villaneuva on the basketball court and it shows more and more each game. He's great at throwing down a dunk and showing emotion but he seldom plays the way that Coach K wants him to play. If Coach can't get what he wants from him.. then CV won't play, that's pretty much the bottom line, and it's frustrating for everyone but I think that's just the way it is.

Maybe Yi is struggling right now but he still hustles and attempts to give the Coach more of what he wants than CV. Some will say, if you put Charlie V. out there when we are struggling to score maybe he can at least score us some points.. but even when CV has stats that make more fans on this board happy unless he was defending at a high level, then I would guess that most of the coaching staff still aren't happy with him. It isn't a "hate" thing.. it's more that this isn't the only thing we need. We need more. We need something from our backups that not only supports the starters but at times maybe even eclipses what we get from the starters.

If Mo Williams and Michael Redd aren't defending the way he needs them too.. then Coach K needs to have faith in and productive bench players that CAN and WILL give him more than a few points on the board. Right now, he doesn't have that. Some have blasted Coach K for what they perceive as a lack of commitment to benching players who don't play defense.. but think about it. If for example, you bench Michael Redd and Mo Williams on a night where they just aren't defending well... Who the hell are we going to put in that can not only help us win the ball game by scoring but also defending every night????? This season we haven't had guys like that where he could do that. If Coach K says F the result of the game and let's just play Royal Ivey, Michael Ruffin, and Charlie Bell.. and none of them can consistently give us what we need offensively then he still risks his job because ultimately winning is all that matters in this league. He can't sacrifice wins while trying to teach Mo, Mike, and anyone else a lesson about being consistent defenders. So even when Yi is struggling out there.. just having him on the floor trying to use his length means more many nights than what we get from CV at times. Maybe his scoring could help at times, but if he isn't trying hard at anything else then why play him

Ultimately what this team lacks is good backups at all positions and a good starter at the SF position. If we are going to succeed, then we need more than what we are getting from Charlie Bell, Bobby Simmons, Charlie Villanueva, and Dan Gadzuric. We can't win until we get it.. and that doesn't have anything to do with "hating" a player.

[carmelbrownqueen]

Thanks ballboy for the insightful response.. it added a lot to the discussion.

[Kablooie]

Thanks ballboy for the insightful response.. it added a lot to the discussion.

Haha, and thank you for not taking 10000 words to make that sarcastic comment!

[Buck You]

-= original quote snipped =-

If you think CBQ is boring, then you won't like this site much. She is one of the most knowledgeable posters here.

[carmelbrownqueen]

-= original quote snipped =-



Haha, and thank you for not taking 10000 words to make that sarcastic comment!

Yep, yet another insightful post. Perhaps trying saying something on the subject that encourages discussion. If you don't agree with what I wrote.. WRITE a response on another way we could look at as we try to figure out if Larry Kryskowiak "hates" Charlie V. If not, then I don't get your point in responding at all.

[Kablooie]

-= original quote snipped =-

Yep, yet another insightful post. Perhaps trying saying something on the subject that encourages discussion. If you don't agree with what I wrote.. WRITE a response on another way we could look at as we try to figure out if Larry Kryskowiak "hates" Charlie V. If not, then I don't get your point in responding at all.

...and yet another wildly insightful comment in return.

I'm not sure this is a subject that's really all that complex. You have a first year player in Yi that the Bucks want to develop since they think he's a large part of the future of the franchise, and in CV you have a inconsistent player that might not even be in Milwaukee in the near future. It kinda makes sense why you'd give Yi more playing time when you really have no hope of being a competitive team this year regardless of who you start.

[Buck You]

Well it just seems weird to me that Charlie V gets punished a lot for his defensive play but no one else does. I know Charlie V is not a star or anything and I myself want him traded but it seems like he's the only one held accountable for stuff on the court.

[Newz]

I'm not sure this is a subject that's really all that complex. You have a first year player in Yi that the Bucks want to develop since they think he's a large part of the future of the franchise, and in CV you have a inconsistent player that might not even be in Milwaukee in the near future. It kinda makes sense why you'd give Yi more playing time when you really have no hope of being a competitive team this year regardless of who you start.

[carmelbrownqueen]

Well it just seems weird to me that Charlie V gets punished a lot for his defensive play but no one else does. I know Charlie V is not a star or anything and I myself want him traded but it seems like he's the only one held accountable for stuff on the court.

And I don't think it has anything to do with CV being the only guy getting punished. Yi in comparison to Bobby Simmons, Dan Gadzuric, Charlie Bell and Charlie Villanueva has been a better contributor. There have been games where he looks very much like the rookie that he is, but he's actually been much better than a few of these guys on a more consistent basis, so LK gives him the minutes. When Michael Redd, Andrew Bogut, Mo Williams, and Desmond Mason (to a certain degree) haven't played well.. none of those other guys have come in and given us anything consistently that warrants increased minutes for them. Therefore LK can't punish them without risking losing the game, because the others have been horrible, which puts him in a position where he can't do what he originally planned with this team.

In the Yi/CV situation, when you have one guy giving effort on both sides of the floor, and the other that is only concerned about shooting the ball..it makes it easier to live with the mistakes of the rookie rather than rewarding a player that often times doesn't even try to do everything he is capable of.

[Buck You]

-= original quote snipped =-

And I don't think it has anything to do with CV being the only guy getting punished. Yi in comparison to Bobby Simmons, Dan Gadzuric, Charlie Bell and Charlie Villanueva has been a better contributor. There have been games where he looks very much like the rookie that he is, but he's actually been much better than a few of these guys on a more consistent basis, so LK gives him the minutes. When Michael Redd, Andrew Bogut, Mo Williams, and Desmond Mason (to a certain degree) haven't played well.. none of those other guys have come in and given us anything consistently that warrants increased minutes for them. Therefore LK can't punish them without risking losing the game, because the others have been horrible, which puts him in a position where he can't do what he originally planned with this team.

In the Yi/CV situation, when you have one guy giving effort on both sides of the floor, and the other that is only concerned about shooting the ball..it makes it easier to live with the mistakes of the rookie rather than rewarding a player that often times doesn't even try to do everything he is capable of.

Yeah, I agree with that.