RealGM

I was issued this challenge over the weekend when I said that there was a misconception on this board that Redd would fetch more in a trade:

75totheMACCfund wrote:please explain why...redd's value is incredibly high...JVG molested Redd verbally last night...he stated redd is one of the premier scorers in the league...in the right situation, Redd could be a great 2 man behind a big man like D Howard...we could get a great deal from redd...at least that's my impression

I think when you factor in position and age Mo's value is probably higher. When you factor in the contracts I believe that he's also going to be easier to move (though his BYC status complicates things a bit).

Am I alone in my thinking? I would obviously prefer to vote Redd off the island, but if it was determined that Mo had to go for whatever reason, couldn't he fetch a pretty nice package?

I just feel that our options for dealing Mike are pretty limited. We obviously haven't been able to build around him, so there's little reason for a rebuilding team to think so either. I'm not saying that absolutely eliminates a team like Charlotte or Philly, but when you factor in his contract he becomes a bit less attractive. To say nothing of the fact that in order to ship him out, we're likely taking back another bad contract or two as well.

Then you have the contenders, or the teams that feel they're only a piece or two away. I think you would find that most teams that fall under that umbrella already have excellent scoring options at the SG positions OR due to the luxery tax, can't afford to add such a high priced one trick pony when they already have one, two or even three players with large salaries.

Mo on the other hand is reasonably priced. He's still young. He plays a position of high value. He also offers versatility in that he can be the guy who moves the ball or he can be the guy that scores.

Redd

Tough to say, I do know that not a lot of fans on realgm were enthusiastic about adding Redd when this was discussed on the trade board.

It seemed that the consensus was that his contract was way too big for a guy who was mostly just a scorer.

Fans are often pretty ignorant though.

On the other hand, Mo is also fairly underrated in my opinion, not to mention his BYC status which would probably mean he would need to be packaged with another contract to bring anything back. Since most of our contracts are bad except for our youth, I just don't know what he would fetch.

it's too hard to know what other gms are thinking

i do kinda hope redd makes the all star game this year for this specific reason

i still think redd would fetch more. I think an owner like Mark Cuban looking to add that final piece to get over the hump would take on Redd's contract. I still don't think Mo is the right PG for this team. He's a SG at heart and I think the bucks could make that work with a bigger, defensive PG next to Mo.

Mo' isn't consistent enough to be a great SG in this league like Mike is. Trading Redd & Mo isn't the answer. Not paying 18m+ a year to scrubs like Simmons, Gadz and Voskul.

MVP4Champ wrote:Mo' isn't consistent enough to be a great SG in this league like Mike is. Trading Redd & Mo isn't the answer. Not paying 18m+ a year to scrubs like Simmons, Gadz and Voskul.

I disagree about paying Jake Voskuhl. He's a great glue guy with veteran leadership and when he gets put in the game, he contributes with a high level of energy.

MVP4Champ wrote:Mo' isn't consistent enough to be a great SG in this league like Mike is. Trading Redd & Mo isn't the answer. Not paying 18m+ a year to scrubs like Simmons, Gadz and Voskul.

Finally, somebody I agree with. With all this losing, everyone is caught up in the "fact" that either Redd or Mo HAS to go, which isn't true. If we weren't heavily invested in terrible players like we are, this wouldn't be an issue. There are almost no teams with worse contracts than what we have. I can think of one...the Knicks.

Everyone here says Redd and Mo have terrible contracts and bitch about it all the time. There was even a thread here once that said Redd was the most overpaid player in the league. He's got players on his own team more overpaid than he is (Gadz/Simmons).

While we all know we can't go back and erase the contracts that these two received, two wrongs don't make a right. Trading Redd or Mo due to pressure from the media and fans isn't the right way to go. The only way I'd THINK about trading these two is if Gadz and/or Simmons is included.

In my honest opinion, if anyone has to go it is CV. He's not as bad as everyone thinks, but he certainly doesn't complement Yi at our PF situation. I feel that they're both relatively soft for the 4 position, and they're the same type of player. I'd try to package CV/Simmons for a decent role player who can complement Yi.

i will concede that bobby got paid too much...it probably should have been around 6-7 million a year. He was coming off a great season, albeit on a bad team. This unfortunate circumstances of his injury have greatly deterred him from being the player he can be.

Gadz, that's just a different story. He was averaging 8 and 8 when he got signed to a deal that was about 12 million too much and 2 years too long.

I don't understand why anyone would complain about Mo's contract.

Sure it hurts having Gadz and Simmons making big bucks without producing, but it also hurts to have a non all-star making max money in my opinion.

jeremyd236 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Finally, somebody I agree with. With all this losing, everyone is caught up in the "fact" that either Redd or Mo HAS to go, which isn't true.

Gotta disagree with you there. People here have been talking about breaking up the MO/Redd backcourt for years: not because of their contracts, but because of their defense. No matter the contracts or the teammates, it's really hard to picture a team with so little backcourt D to get far in the playoffs.

Redd..

Mo is a combo guard, and with a couple exceptions, those guys are harder to just plug into a new team, because they have limitations, whether it's due to size, or skillset...

Redd is your prototypical SG.. He's in that 6-5 to 6-7 range, he doesn't handle the ball well nor pass it well enough to have any other distinction as being anything other than a SG...

You know exactly what you get when you trade for him, thus any deal is tailored to another team's specific needs...

L&H_05 wrote:Redd..

Mo is a combo guard, and with a couple exceptions, those guys are harder to just plug into a new team, because they have limitations, whether it's due to size, or skillset...

Redd is your prototypical SG.. He's in that 6-5 to 6-7 range, he doesn't handle the ball well nor pass it well enough to have any other distinction as being anything other than a SG...

You know exactly what you get when you trade for him, thus any deal is tailored to another team's specific needs...

Correct.

And how many teams need a maxed out SG that offers absolutely nothing but scoring?

Think about it.

Last month I tried to think of potential Redd deals. It's harder than you would think.

DrugBust wrote:And how many teams need a maxed out SG that offers absolutely nothing but scoring?

Think about it.

Last month I tried to think of potential Redd deals. It's harder than you would think.

Cleveland
New York
Utah

Followed by:

Dallas
Orlando
Phoenix (depending on if the deal saves them money)

If the Mavs would take Redd damn would I love a Redd for Josh Howard deal.

I can't belive im going to say this but I think Redd has more trade value but Mo is the player i'd rather keep between the two.

Mo isnt quite the scorer Redd is but hes close and Mo gets his 17pts ppg on 48% from the field while also giving you 7 assts.

Plus unlike Redd Mo actually has some fire in him and seems bothered by losing.

I still would rather have more of a pure PG as our starter and have Mo be 6th man of the year but Mo has done a solid job this season.

[quote="Rockmaninoff"][/quote]

Right. Now think of a deal that works for either NY or Cleveland. My guess is you won't come up with one.

Utah works if we want the Mad Russian, I'll give you that.

DrugBust wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Right. Now think of a deal that works for either NY or Cleveland. My guess is you won't come up with one.

Utah works if we want the Mad Russian, I'll give you that.

I'll take the Mad Russian and Almond Joy for him, right now!

In regards to Redd, the Cavs (if we had anything to trade) remains an iffy trade partner IMO...

Yes, we need another scorer, but I think we need someone that can score and setup an offense a little more... Which is why the Cavs are so in love with Mike Bibby.. I mean, Ferry would be willing to carry Bibby's child if he could..

I still think with Redd, the Cavs have some of the same problems in terms of standing around on offense...

L&H_05 wrote:In regards to Redd, the Cavs (if we had anything to trade) remains an iffy trade partner IMO...

Yes, we need another scorer, but I think we need someone that can score and setup an offense a little more... Which is why the Cavs are so in love with Mike Bibby.. I mean, Ferry would be willing to carry Bibby's child if he could..

I still think with Redd, the Cavs have some of the same problems in terms of standing around on offense...

Who would you rather have right now...Mo Williams, Mike Redd or Bibby when you factor in age and contract.