Vecsey prints the details on the Z-Bo rumor

[EastSideBucksFan]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01152008/sp ... htm?page=1

The truth is, contrary to Thomas' denial when word got out, GM Glen Grunwald initiated a trade call last week to Bucks GM Larry Harris in an effort to trade Zach RandolphZach Randolph .

No hedging, no fudging, no qualifying, no lie.

As far as I can determine, the word got out when Harris called his Trail Blazers counterpart, Kevin Pritchard, to check out Randolph, whom the Knicks acquired from Portland last June on draft night, and someone in their organization leaked it to a reporter for The Oregonian.

By that time, the Bucks had summarily rejected the Knicks' proposal: Randolph ($13.333 million /$14.666M/$16M/$17.333M) and Renaldo Balkman ($1.280M/$1.369M) for Charlie Villanueva ($2.715M/$3.448M), Bobby Simmons ($9.28M/$9.92M/$10.56M) and Dan Gadzuric ($5.751M/$6.25M/$6.749M/$7.248M); two part-time outside shooters (31 and 30 percent from 3-point range, respectively) seeing inconsistent minutes and an athletic third-string center.

"I would've taken that deal in a heartbeat," an impartial head coach said. "The Bucks are saturated with perimeter shooters who would really thrive if defend ers had to honor an in side game. Zach draws double teams, no two ways about it. "I under stand Zach has a past. I understand his personality, issues and liabilities must be managed. I understand his contract is a major league obligation. But if a good team wants to get someplace, someone must be able to get you to that position. If that someone averages 20 and 10 (actually 16.8 points and 10 rebounds in 31.8 minutes) and it's more than he's giving up at the other end, you pull the trigger."

Obviously, much, if not all of the above made the Bucks too squeamish

In conclusion, if according to me, the Bucks turned down this deal, "then someone should consider anesthetizing their GM, while Isiah should be brought before the Nuremberg tribunal for crimes against mankind," Chip Stern e-mails in full rant.

I love how Harris basically gets called an idiot for not wanting to take on this franchise wrecking malcontent with a max contract. Riiiiight

[BobbyLight]

I am sure that impartial coach is Mr. Thomas.

[Buck You]

I don't know. That trade is better than any I've seen. Getting rid of Simmons and Gadzuric in one trade? That's gold. But I still don't like Randolph.

[Debit One]

Hmm ... you know what, as much as I absolutely HATE Zach Randolph I would have considered that deal. Getting rid of the huge contracts of two guys who are contributing next to nothing (Simmons and Gadzuric) in exchange for a guy who is talented enough to be a legit starting PF and a hustle guy in Balkman.

I'd have considered it.

[Matt Foley]

As much as I want to dump Gadz contract.. no thanks.

I think there is still a little hope for Simmons and CV.

[BobbyLight]

This article also doesn't mention a word about the 2 young starting bigs we already have and need to develop. If we had Zach that would take a large amount of touches from Yi and Bogut.

This trade may have made us better now, but it might also stop Yi and Bogut from being as good as they can be. And if we did this and things went bad, we'd be stuck with a really, really bad contract that goes a year longer than Simmons. This is just a terrible trade.

[trwi7]

I would've done that deal. Yeah blah, blah, blah max contract, character issues whatever he still puts up 17/10 per game and provides a hell of a lot more than Simmons and Gadz do at the same price.

[EastSideBucksFan]

I would've done that deal. Yeah blah, blah, blah max contract, character issues whatever he still puts up 17/10 per game and provides a hell of a lot more than Simmons and Gadz do at the same price.

If by "hell of a lot more" you mean "ruin our team, kill our chemistry, kill any hope of defense we might have and steal touches from our young developing bigs" then yes, Zach does a hell of a lot more than Simmons and Gadz


I have to believe as Harris does that if we do trade CV and send along one of the Simmons or Gadz contracts we can find something that reduces our responisibility by at least one year than it's worth it.

[PaBuck]

Randolph is too much of a risk. Redd's contract in place further discourages me from this trade. We don't need more scoring, but more defense. Simmons is starting to come on. Not against trading him and the others, but we have to find a better deal then this. The Bulls who need inside scoring could use Randolph more than the Bucks and they won't pull the trigger. Harris, stay away from the Knicks.

[paul]

I would've done that deal. Yeah blah, blah, blah max contract, character issues whatever he still puts up 17/10 per game and provides a hell of a lot more than Simmons and Gadz do at the same price.

Put virtually any other 4 with similar numbers in Zach's place in this deal and I probably would have done it too, but he would kill this team. Apart from the personality issues he's such a black hole on offense and plays matador defense. We need plenty, but he's not it for me. Having the inside offense begin (and therefore end) with him would hurt bogut's development no end.

[trwi7]

-= original quote snipped =-




If by "hell of a lot more" you mean "ruin our team, kill our chemistry, kill any hope of defense we might have and steal touches from our young developing bigs" then yes, Zach does a hell of a lot more than Simmons and Gadz


I have to believe as Harris does that if we do trade CV and send along one of the Simmons or Gadz contracts we can find something that reduces our responisibility by at least one year than it's worth it.

We have chemistry?

And ruin our team? Our team is 15-23, would it really hurt to cut dead weight from our roster to bring him in?

[EastSideBucksFan]

-= original quote snipped =-



We have chemistry?

And ruin our team? Our team is 15-23, would it really hurt to cut dead weight from our roster to bring him in?

Yes it actually would

Look at the improvement of the Blazers from his departure and the demise of the Knicks coupled with his arrival as evidence

Yes it could get worse

This isn't fantasy basketball. You don't just look at the stats.

Acquiring Zach Randolph and his max contract b/c we overpaid for Simmons and Gadz while also giving away CV would mean Harris is trying to fix three mistakes with an even bigger one. Not a smart idea and not the direction we want to go in.

[paul]

-= original quote snipped =-



We have chemistry?

And ruin our team? Our team is 15-23, would it really hurt to cut dead weight from our roster to bring him in?

I understand the sentiment twirl, but you only have to look at Ruben Patterson to see how important chemistry and character are to a team. This is a guy who was one of our best players last season and now finds himself out of the league by all accounts because he was a cancer in the locker room. Rightly or wrongly Randolph has the reputation of being THAT guy, and unless we want to become an even bigger joke in a few months I don't want him.

I'll probably get flamed for saying this but props to LH for not pulling the trigger on what must have been a tempting 'win now and save my job' move, whether we like him or not. At least it appears he's still got the teams best interests in mind, even if he is a lame duck.

[paulpressey25]

The fact Isiah was willing to throw Balkman into the deal tells me how badly he wanted Zach out......combined with the fact he'd take Gadz and Bobby back......

You just don't give up an 18/10 guy like that for crap.....unless there is something seriously wrong with him.

[emunney]

With the amount of people on this board who want to trade Redd for being an overpaid no-D black hole, it's amazing that anyone would want to trade for Randolph, who brings all those things plus behavioral issues.

[emunney]

The fact Isiah was willing to throw Balkman into the deal tells me how badly he wanted Zach out......combined with the fact he'd take Gadz and Bobby back......

You just don't give up an 18/10 guy like that for crap.....unless there is something seriously wrong with him.

And Isiah just traded for the guy a couple months ago. And gave up the guy he thought should have been the number 1 overall in his draft (Frye) to get him. He's worn out his welcome more quickly than Stephon Marbury. Everyone needs to stop being seduced by those rebounding numbers; Randolph is twenty pounds of bad news in a ten-pound sack.

[fam3381]

Before Bill Simmons went on his latest good guys/chemistry philosophical kick, he used to play the "you can get away with having one crazy guy" card. That's presuming you have a strong enough veteran presence to deal with them and keep them in check. Problem is I don't think the Bucks have the sort of guy(s) who could keep Randolph in line.

If you had someone like a Garnett or Nash type then I think it's different, but if you asked me whether Randolph would be a cornerstone guy the Bucks could actually build around, I just don't really see it. Yi's not going to be a small forward so what does the team look like after the deal? It'd be great if the Bucks could ditch those contracts, but Randolph is owed a ton, too. Granted he's a much bigger producer, but would the Bucks actually win more games?

[Profound23]

That is exactly what I said the trade would be.

And Harris or Kohl, whomever is stupid for not pulling the trigger.

Get rid of Gadz and Simmons for Zach and trade CV for Balkman.

[europa]

The fact Isiah was willing to throw Balkman into the deal tells me how badly he wanted Zach out......combined with the fact he'd take Gadz and Bobby back......

You just don't give up an 18/10 guy like that for crap.....unless there is something seriously wrong with him.

Yup. When a GM who's as utterly clueless as Isiah realizes this, the point is reinforced even more.

Thank God the Bucks said no to this deal.

[showtimesam]

A great non move for the bucks.

As far as im concerned our starting pf/c should not be tampered with. However, hopefully as part of a bigger trade the bucks could pick up a shelden williams TYPE backup pf/c that can play some defense, rebound, and block shots next to bogut and yi.