RealGM

Bucks fans, Yi is the least of your worries. And putting CV in the starting lineup won't change anything. I follow every team in the NBA as close as I can and since I'm in the East Coast, I can see a lot of Bucks games before it gets too late. Many of your problems have been documented by other posters here. They are, in no particular order:

Redd shoots when he's not supposed to and makes it easier for the defense to defend against the team when he does. He should pass A LOT more. I never realized this about him, but he shoots some ridiculous shots when he could just pass it and if the entire team passes it around, aka team basketball, the team would have a wide open shot. He can rack up assists but he's not really passing the ball.

Bogut is your best player. Although it seems he doesn't realize it yet or has resigned himself to the fact that he won't get touches that he should. Unfortunately when he doesn't get touches, he seems to sulk and not try as hard on defense (which is normal in big men, that's why they always say you gotta feed the big man or else he'll get lazy). He plays solid defense, rebounds well (not great, but well enough), and can initiate an offense and has the passing ability to lead a team. Not giving him at least 12 shots a game and playing through him is hurting the team the most IMO. The guy can play, is young, and is willing to defend the paint. He should be the main man.

Mo is not a bad player. He'd be a GREAT 6th man. Not a starting pg though. A combo guard in the same backcourt as Redd is not a recipe for success. He passes more than Redd (well he should, he's the PG), but doesn't pick his spots to shoot, even when hot, as well as a PG should. Again, him and Redd together translates into a bad team tempo since getting the ball to Bogut would be more beneficial.

Yi is a rookie, he'll suck like he does now. He'll be good-great for a couple or few games and everyone will be salivating over him. Then he'll play like he is now and look like a bum. That's what rookies do. Trading him does not help your team. He's 7'0, athletic, fluid, makes good decisions with the ball generally, and has shown a willingness to move around on defense and get after players. He's bad at defensive positioning, clueless at times. On offense he does what a rookie does when there are guards that dominate the ball: stand around. Even Bogut does that and he's not a rookie and he's much better at creating than Yi. It's not Yi's fault he only shoots 20 ft jump shots and gets points from offensive rebounds.

CV is a nice player. Can score but defense is arguably worse than Yi's. With Yi, there is a feeling that if he learns the nuance of the game, he'll become good at defense. With CV, it's more about his attitude, which is a big problem. At least with Bogut, if he gets touches, he'll try harder on defense. CV is not like that type of character. CV likes buckets, whether he scores it or his opponent does. He would probably be better coming off the bench with Mo.

Everyone else, unfortunately for the Bucks they don't seem like keepers. Or even helpers at this point.

Gadz would be a good backup, but if IIRC he's getting paid more than what a backup should be. Apologies if that's incorrect.

Bobby Simmons just has been bad luck for you guys. I thought that was a great signing when that happened. Haven't seen enough of him to judge whether he doesn't care enough now that he's got his contract or physical limitations (injuries) are affecting him.

Royal Ivey I do like, he's a good defender and knows his shot isn't great, so he'll pass it unless he can get to the rim for a layup. Doesn't try to do too much, and knows his role.

If I were the GM and Kohl did not handicap my job, I would trade Redd for hopefully a high draft pick this year or next or an expiring contract for cap flexibility since a lot of it is tide up into Simmons as well as a point guard.

http://realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4432487

In that successful trade, Bucks ship out Redd and CV for Webster (young SG), Blake (solid PG), Frye (bad defense but solid jump shooter) and Darius Miles (I know I know). Bucks get young, cheap talent and Miles who doesn't seem likely to play so he won't affect chemistry (and if he does he has one year less than Redd so it can be seen when he comes back, what shape he's in). Trailblazers get a good SG who can stretch the defense for Aldridge and Roy and Oden when he comes back. Also someone off the bench to help out Outlaw when they need scoring since their team stagnates when Roy is out of the game.

A starting 5 of Blake, Webster, Simmons, Yi, and Bogut with a bench of Mo, Frye, Gadz, and Bell. Most likely a top 5 draft pick in this years draft that can fill out the SG/SF position.

Anyway, apologies for a long drawn out post, but just an honest opinion from an outsider that has drawn a fondness for the good people on the Bucks board.



Edit: Steve Blake sucks. Put Jarrett Jack in there instead.

teamny1 wrote:Blake (solid PG)

We had white trash here last year. He hated it here and we hated him when he was here. It was a great divorce with no chance of the two ever getting back together.

Um...I think you should take Blake out of that proposal and put someone else in...otherwise...prepare to be bombarded. Bucks fans don't exactly like Steve Blake after the way he acted and performed when we traded for him the last time.

I just put Blake there, but it could be Jarrett Jack as well. I'm not enamored with Sergio Rodriguez' game since he dribbles a bit too much, but if Blake was a bad idea last year, then Jack would be servicable as well.

Fort Minor wrote:Um...I think you should take Blake out of that proposal and put someone else in...otherwise...prepare to be bombarded. Bucks fans don't exactly like Steve Blake after the way he acted and performed when we traded for him the last time.

Wow I didn't realize the hatred toward Blake.

http://realgm.com/src_tradechecker/3/

That might be a bit better then.

teamny1 wrote:Bucks fans, Yi is the least of your worries. And putting CV in the starting lineup won't change anything. I follow every team in the NBA as close as I can and since I'm in the East Coast, I can see a lot of Bucks games before it gets too late. Many of your problems have been documented by other posters here. They are, in no particular order:

Redd shoots when he's not supposed to and makes it easier for the defense to defend against the team when he does. He should pass A LOT more. I never realized this about him, but he shoots some ridiculous shots when he could just pass it and if the entire team passes it around, aka team basketball, the team would have a wide open shot. He can rack up assists but he's not really passing the ball.

Bogut is your best player. Although it seems he doesn't realize it yet or has resigned himself to the fact that he won't get touches that he should. Unfortunately when he doesn't get touches, he seems to sulk and not try as hard on defense (which is normal in big men, that's why they always say you gotta feed the big man or else he'll get lazy). He plays solid defense, rebounds well (not great, but well enough), and can initiate an offense and has the passing ability to lead a team. Not giving him at least 12 shots a game and playing through him is hurting the team the most IMO. The guy can play, is young, and is willing to defend the paint. He should be the main man.

Mo is not a bad player. He'd be a GREAT 6th man. Not a starting pg though. A combo guard in the same backcourt as Redd is not a recipe for success. He passes more than Redd (well he should, he's the PG), but doesn't pick his spots to shoot, even when hot, as well as a PG should. Again, him and Redd together translates into a bad team tempo since getting the ball to Bogut would be more beneficial.

Yi is a rookie, he'll suck like he does now. He'll be good-great for a couple or few games and everyone will be salivating over him. Then he'll play like he is now and look like a bum. That's what rookies do. Trading him does not help your team. He's 7'0, athletic, fluid, makes good decisions with the ball generally, and has shown a willingness to move around on defense and get after players. He's bad at defensive positioning, clueless at times. On offense he does what a rookie does when there are guards that dominate the ball: stand around. Even Bogut does that and he's not a rookie and he's much better at creating than Yi. It's not Yi's fault he only shoots 20 ft jump shots and gets points from offensive rebounds.

CV is a nice player. Can score but defense is arguably worse than Yi's. With Yi, there is a feeling that if he learns the nuance of the game, he'll become good at defense. With CV, it's more about his attitude, which is a big problem. At least with Bogut, if he gets touches, he'll try harder on defense. CV is not like that type of character. CV likes buckets, whether he scores it or his opponent does. He would probably be better coming off the bench with Mo.

Everyone else, unfortunately for the Bucks they don't seem like keepers. Or even helpers at this point.

Gadz would be a good backup, but if IIRC he's getting paid more than what a backup should be. Apologies if that's incorrect.

Bobby Simmons just has been bad luck for you guys. I thought that was a great signing when that happened. Haven't seen enough of him to judge whether he doesn't care enough now that he's got his contract or physical limitations (injuries) are affecting him.

Royal Ivey I do like, he's a good defender and knows his shot isn't great, so he'll pass it unless he can get to the rim for a layup. Doesn't try to do too much, and knows his role.

If I were the GM and Kohl did not handicap my job, I would trade Redd for hopefully a high draft pick this year or next or an expiring contract for cap flexibility since a lot of it is tide up into Simmons as well as a point guard.

http://realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4432487

In that successful trade, Bucks ship out Redd and CV for Webster (young SG), Blake (solid PG), Frye (bad defense but solid jump shooter) and Darius Miles (I know I know). Bucks get young, cheap talent and Miles who doesn't seem likely to play so he won't affect chemistry (and if he does he has one year less than Redd so it can be seen when he comes back, what shape he's in). Trailblazers get a good SG who can stretch the defense for Aldridge and Roy and Oden when he comes back. Also someone off the bench to help out Outlaw when they need scoring since their team stagnates when Roy is out of the game.

A starting 5 of Blake, Webster, Simmons, Yi, and Bogut with a bench of Mo, Frye, Gadz, and Bell. Most likely a top 5 draft pick in this years draft that can fill out the SG/SF position.

Anyway, apologies for a long drawn out post, but just an honest opinion from an outsider that has drawn a fondness for the good people on the Bucks board.

Pretty on-target on most things. It is interesting to me how much better the team has looked after redd went down, and when he is not in a position to hog the ball. Bell, Simmons, Bogut, and CV all seem to shut down when Redd tried to take over the game, or forces up bad shots. You can almost feel the tension out there...

I have declared that I wanted to wait until after the AS break to start to really make a judgmen on this team, but I have to say, as impressive is Redd is at scoring, his inability to get his teamates involved is equally as much depressing. for example, Kobe took 7 shots i think in his last game, and the lakers won! Tell me that Sasha Vucivic (spelling?) is so good? Farmar? They have some talent, but I think they play to the top of their levels because Kobe pushes them, our team plays down because Redd drags them down.

Good post. It's always interesting to hear what non-Bucks fans (who've actually watched the team play) have to say about the squad. My roommate is a Bulls fan, but living with me he's forced to watch a lot Bucks games. His thoughts echo the thoughts of you and many of the posters on this board regarding Redd and MO. It just isn

i'd take blake (the way he plays for portland) any day of the week.

good solid insight into our team. i don't think i disagree with any of what you said, apart from your trade ideas. blake is not coming back here, he would refuse the trade. portland in general won't make any trades this year anyway, unless it's darius miles.

i'd take blake if the opportunity arose. i liked him. i'd like to find out why he played like he did, but if that problem was sorted out, then he'd be a good piece.

teamny1 wrote:
Redd shoots when he's not supposed to and makes it easier for the defense to defend against the team when he does. He should pass A LOT more. I never realized this about him, but he shoots some ridiculous shots when he could just pass it and if the entire team passes it around, aka team basketball, the team would have a wide open shot. He can rack up assists but he's not really passing the ball.

Yup.

Bogut is your best player.

Yup.

Although it seems he doesn't realize it yet or has resigned himself to the fact that he won't get touches that he should. Unfortunately when he doesn't get touches, he seems to sulk and not try as hard on defense (which is normal in big men, that's why they always say you gotta feed the big man or else he'll get lazy). He plays solid defense, rebounds well (not great, but well enough), and can initiate an offense and has the passing ability to lead a team. Not giving him at least 12 shots a game and playing through him is hurting the team the most IMO. The guy can play, is young, and is willing to defend the paint. He should be the main man.

Since the new year those things have changed. Bogut has been getting the ball a lot. He is now demanding the double team against almost every team in January.

Mo is not a bad player. He'd be a GREAT 6th man.

He sure would be. Now only if we had another PG that was even close to as good as Mo.

A combo guard in the same backcourt as Redd is not a recipe for success.

Yup.

CV is a nice player. Can score but defense is arguably worse than Yi's.

This makes me think you don't watch our games very often. CV is one of the worst defenders in the league while Yi is solid.

Anyway, apologies for a long drawn out post, but just an honest opinion from an outsider that has drawn a fondness for the good people on the Bucks board.

Thanks for stopping by.

teamny1 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Wow I didn't realize the hatred toward Blake.

http://realgm.com/src_tradechecker/3/

That might be a bit better then.

True story, i went to a bucks game last year, Blake was horrible as usual all game, and I was shouting loud enough for the whole arena to hear me about how much he sucks. The very next day he was traded away.


Hmmm, maybe i should go to a game soon and give Simmons the same treatment.

Kohl Is A Mome wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



True story, i went to a bucks game last year, Blake was horrible as usual all game, and I was shouting loud enough for the whole arena to hear me about how much he sucks. The very next day he was traded away.


Hmmm, maybe i should go to a game soon and give Simmons the same treatment.

You should do the same thing but yell Kohl should stop listening to the three stooges.

75totheMACCfund wrote:i'd take blake (the way he plays for portland) any day of the week.

So would I. But I doubt he'd ever play the same way for us, especially after that disaster that occurred last time.

In that successful trade, Bucks ship out Redd and CV for Webster (young SG), Blake (solid PG), Frye (bad defense but solid jump shooter) and Darius Miles (I know I know). Bucks get young, cheap talent and Miles who doesn't seem likely to play so he won't affect chemistry (and if he does he has one year less than Redd so it can be seen when he comes back, what shape he's in). Trailblazers get a good SG who can stretch the defense for Aldridge and Roy and Oden when he comes back. Also someone off the bench to help out Outlaw when they need scoring since their team stagnates when Roy is out of the game.

A starting 5 of Blake, Webster, Simmons, Yi, and Bogut with a bench of Mo, Frye, Gadz, and Bell. Most likely a top 5 draft pick in this years draft that can fill out the SG/SF position.

Your post about the Bucks was solid, but this trade is terrible

I do think some Bucks fans might overrate what Redd could bring back in a trade given his contract, the above trade though does nothing for the Bucks.

Webster doesn't impress me much all that much. A non-overly athletic SG that shoots 40% and almost never gets to the free throw line. Blake is better than what he showed here, but he'd likely be gone after this season. Frye is a solid bench big man, not much more and Miles is basically lighting 18 million dollars on fire over the next two years.

I'm in the trade Redd camp, but not for something like this that brings us nothing that really brightens our present or future that much talent wise, nor comes without a draft pick or a big expiring.

I did that trade off the top of my head, but going back you and thinking some more you guys could trade Redd for Raef, Jack, and a 1st for Redd.

Raef is off the books after next year, leaving the salary cap at 42 mil when the cap should be around 53 or 54 million. After the 2009/2010 season, Simmons goes off the cap (but Bogut needs to be resigned), however with clever management the Bucks can still sign someone and then have Bogut's Bird Rights go into effect so that Bogut's contract doesn't negate Simmons' cap space.

Of course that means the earliest the team can compete realistically deep into the playoffs would be in 2009, but at this point the Bucks main goal should be developing Bogut and Yi. It's realistic to predict Bogut, if he's getting touches, can average about 18/9 or 18/10 next year and Yi can chip in around 14/8. With two draft picks (Portland's and Buck's own), and a renewed attitude, even if the Bucks don't make the playoffs next year they can still get another lottery pick as well as having Raef's contract off to be able to sign a good free agent.

Worse case scenario, even if only one of those three 1st round draft picks prove they can play, you'd have Bogut already established as a go-to player and Yi as an emerging star and the rookie developing into the 3rd scorer with needed role players like Mo as the scoring combo guard.

"Since the new year those things have changed. Bogut has been getting the ball a lot. He is now demanding the double team against almost every team in January. "

That made me smile on a cold, cold morning. I doubt if Bogut, or anyone, demands a double team. I think he is now commanding one.

I think your assessment of the team was well done but as others have said your Redd trade ideas don't help the Bucks. Even the latest one isn't a good idea for Milwaukee in my opinion. Jack is a nice player but the Bucks could very well land someone as good or better in the draft next year so I don't see him having much value for the Bucks. A late first-round pick may or may not pan out. So basically, you'd be trading Redd for cap space and bench help. That's a pretty poor return in my opinion. If the Bucks are going to trade Redd, they need to come away with at least one impact player in the starting lineup - be it someone proven (which would be my preference) or a strong lottery pick.

Epicurus wrote:"Since the new year those things have changed. Bogut has been getting the ball a lot. He is now demanding the double team against almost every team in January. "

That made me smile on a cold, cold morning. I doubt if Bogut, or anyone, demands a double team. I think he is now commanding one.

I mean this in a nice way, but epi, you remind me of my older brother when he used to pick on me as a kid. He would call me names that I didn't, at the time, understand because they were not in my vocabulary, or pick on my grammar and drive me crazy. But boy would he smile.

Eventually, it made my vocabulary great for my SAT's and I realized that it was the created order of the world that made him happy and able to cope. Logic and order rules the day for some. Others take it personally.

monitor33 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I mean this in a nice way, but epi, you remind me of my older brother when he used to pick on me as a kid. He would call me names that I didn't, at the time, understand because they were not in my vocabulary, or pick on my grammar and drive me crazy. But boy would he smile.

Eventually, it made my vocabulary great for my SAT's and I realized that it was the created order of the world that made him happy and able to cope. Logic and order rules the day for some. Others take it personally.

Please excuse my ignorance monitor but could you explain this to me? I don't get your point. Is it that being illogical and living in chaos make some able to cope? Also, who is taking what personally? BTW, I have twin sisters who "used" to be older than I. They say if I look this old they can't possibly be my "older" sisters....... so I also know what it is to get picked on.