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Redd wide open = Redd has time to think = Redd miss
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:17 pm
by Sigra
Last night in third quarter we had Bogut who got doubleteamed all the time. He was passing out of double team and the ball would find wide open Redd at the 3 point line. Miss, miss, miss, miss, miss.
I have been talking about that for years now. When wide open Redd miss shots more than when he shot contested shots.
When Redd thinks then Redd miss. Even he said that. When he is wide open then he has time to think and then he miss. That should be clear be now. He is not good fit for inside out offense or for "Reggie Miller" offense or for any other team offense. He is one-on-one ISO player who hit though shots when he has no time to think.
He was not victim of system where he didn't have anybody to create open shots for him. He was actually happy with that system because that's when he is good.
I don't know how anybody can watch Bucks all this year and don't see that.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:20 pm
by Andrew34r
Against Indiana those same shots were falling. Nobody was hitting shots last night...outside of CV.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:21 pm
by Bucks_Revenge
Unlike Ray, Glenn, and Sam
Wide open shot= a very long day for the opponent.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:22 pm
by Rockmaninoff
I see it when he has to make free throws under pressure.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:28 pm
by dunhill
If that's the case if yo want to feature him then gut the team. Follow the AI philly team blueprint of the late 90's early 2000's. I really don't think that you can feature a guy like that who supposedly is one of the best shooters in the NBA. Great shooters hit open and contested jmpers. but if they do forget Bogut, forget Yi forget CV, forget Mo you'll destroy their careers by playing like that. Get rid of them all.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:30 pm
by Sigra
Andrew34r wrote:Against Indiana those same shots were falling.
Nope. Against Indiana he didn't think. He was shoting some though shots against Indiana and he was hiting as he was not thinking. Indiana didn't have to double Bogut because Foster had him under control. Therefore, shots that Redd took against Indiana were not open shots that Bogut created for him. Redd didn't have time to think before shot against Indiana.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:41 pm
by paulpressey25
I don't know if Redd is a good spot-up, wide open shooter. At least not in the role of Ray Allen or a Dell Curry.
He's got to be hot to do that (by the way, where is Adamcz?).
That said, Redd can get points in diverse ways.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:49 pm
by Sigra
Redd himself admited that he play better when he doesn't have to think. He said that after his bad games in January when Bogut was first option and Redd was restricted to open shots. Then he talked with coach and got freedom to shot as soon as posible against Indiana without much thinking. He was great in that game. Then again, against Raptors, Bucks played through Bogut and that opened Redd and he was again bad.
But ok. Maybe he needs time to learn to play that way. How much time this franchise has though?
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:52 pm
by raferfenix
What about the USA basketball Michael Redd? He wasn't taking on ISO's and shot extremely well.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:54 pm
by WEFFPIM
Sigra wrote:Nope. Against Indiana he didn't think. He was shoting some though shots against Indiana and he was hiting as he was not thinking. Indiana didn't have to double Bogut because Foster had him under control. Therefore, shots that Redd took against Indiana were not open shots that Bogut created for him. Redd didn't have time to think before shot against Indiana.
How do you know? I saw a lot of wide open looks for Redd against Indy that he hit, that he had time to think about.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:57 pm
by Sigra
raferfenix wrote:What about the USA basketball Michael Redd? He wasn't taking on ISO's and shot extremely well.
- Diferent rules,
- Shorter 3 point line (not so much time to think),
- Light competition,
- "brain in clauds" (not thinking just enjoying),
- hot because his dream came true (his dream IS not to play second banana and role player to Bogut)
- He shot extremely well only in first few games (while momentum was high). Then he kind of sucked
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:00 pm
by Sigra
WEFFPIM wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
How do you know? I saw a lot of wide open looks for Redd against Indy that he hit, that he had time to think about.
Not same amount of time. Those were not so open as last night. Not even close. Watch again (it is still in archived games at LP)
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:03 pm
by Andrew34r
So your point is that Redd should pass up wide open shots for contested shots???
Or is your point that we should trade Redd because after a few games of going inside to Bogut on a more consistent basis Redd has not hit all of his wide open shots in a inside-out offense?
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:06 pm
by WEFFPIM
Sigra wrote:Not same amount of time. Those were not so open as last night. Not even close. Watch again (it is still in archived games at LP)
I don't think you can accurately judge how much time it takes Michael to think about his shot. While I do think you're on to something, it's not nearly as clear-cut as you're making it to be. He did have time to think about his shots against Indiana and he hit them, a trend that has occurred much of his career. This season they haven't fallen, and seems to get into a groove when there's a man on him. But if anything, this season has been an exception to what Redd has been doing his whole career.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:07 pm
by Max Green
Andrew34r wrote:So your point is that Redd should pass up wide open shots for contested shots???
Or is your point that we should trade Redd because after a few games of going inside to Bogut on a more consistent basis Redd has not hit all of his wide open shots in a inside-out offense?
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:10 pm
by WRau1
When Redd caught those passes, he didn't hesitate for 1 sec. He put it up like normally, he just didn't make them, like the rest of the team.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:10 pm
by Sigra
Andrew34r wrote:So your point is that Redd should pass up wide open shots for contested shots???
Or is your point that we should trade Redd because after a few games of going inside to Bogut on a more consistent basis Redd has not hit all of his wide open shots in a inside-out offense?
Trade him of course. But not only because of "few games". I knew for years what will hapen if we ever find a way to create open shots for Redd. I knew that Bogut can make that happen but unfortunatly Stotts wasted 2 years and Krystko 2 more months before we finally see some plays for Andrew. Perhaps Stotts also knew what will hapen if Bogut open Redd so he hided that like he hided some other weaknesses of this team.
Terry Stotts was worst thing that hapen for this team. For 2 years he blinded most of the people that Bogut is not capable to drive double team (Kukoc comfired that we didn't have any play for Bogut) and that Redd and Mo are our only chance at offense. Stotts did have more short term success than Krystkowiak but long term he raped this franchise.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:14 pm
by Max Green
OMG!! Redd missed some wide open 3's. Trade him now!!! Of course everybody in the league misses wide-open shots from time to time. Another typical Redd hate thread.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:16 pm
by WEFFPIM
Thinking about wide open shots is not grounds to trade anyone. Taking a ton of double-teamed shots down the stretch is the much larger issue. If Redd is wide open in a close game in the 4th quarter, of course I want him to take the freakin' shot, he's still the best shooter on the team.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:18 pm
by Sigra
WEFFPIM wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
I don't think you can accurately judge how much time it takes Michael to think about his shot. While I do think you're on to something, it's not nearly as clear-cut as you're making it to be. He did have time to think about his shots against Indiana and he hit them, a trend that has occurred much of his career. This season they haven't fallen, and seems to get into a groove when there's a man on him. But if anything, this season has been an exception to what Redd has been doing his whole career.
Well, this is just one theory. The other one is that Redd just doesn't feel good (feel bad = miss shots) when he is not alpha dog and "miracle maker" for his NBA team.
It is posible that he thinks "why I need Bogut to make me open? I can create my own shot. I am not some cripple to depend on Bogut". That would make him feel strange when he find himself open as a result of doubleteam on Bogut. And that would lead to miss as well.
I don't know what is 100% true but it would be rather naive to ignore the fact that Redd miss shots when Bogut make him open.
Last night we had game under control untill that part in 3rd quarter when Bogut got double teamed few times in the row and made perfect outlet passes to guards just to see Redd miss wide open shots time after time. That completly killed our team last night. That's when we lost that game.