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After a game like this, you really have to wonder. Would CV work as hard if he was starting, or is he busting his ass to try and earn the starting spot?

I'm led to believe he wouldn't be playing as hard if he was guaranteed the starting PF spot, but it's hard to tell.

It seems like he plays harder when he has a point to prove. We'll see.

This should be helpful in terms of trade value. Keep it up CV!

aboveAverage wrote:It seems like he plays harder when he has a point to prove. We'll see.

He also plays hard when playing against his pals which tonight was the case with Gay.

He's the most talented player on the team.......

But for some reason he only brings it about every fifth game......or when he feels like he has a point to prove....

I'm not sure why he can't connect the dots that if he plays like this every night he gets a big contract or he gets a trade to a team that might give him a big contract.

CV is the kind of player that has to get some tic and get in a rhythm to be effective. He got that tonight.

Also, the fact that he wasn't looking over his shoulder all night wondering when he was gonna get yanked for Yi probably made him play with a lot of confidence.

I like Yi but he needs time to get stronger,right now he is strictly a perimeter player. We need CV's inside abilities as evidenced by his rebound total tonight. Keep him starting and as I've said before, give him the minutes he deserves.

iveyfanclub wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




He also plays hard when playing against his pals which tonight was the case with Gay.

Exactly. He loves playing in front of his pals, his old team and showing off his full arsenal when matched up against guys he has a friendship with.

We will see great effort games like this each time he's playing these guys.. it's when none of fhese guys are around that I worry. CV is a talented player that chooses not to work hard on his body or game and can still do some good things on the court when he wants too. Guess that is what makes him so very frustrating...

Could be just me (and Taurus apparantly), but i would think getting quality minutes and knowing you won't get the hook the first chance the coach gets might have added to his play tonight, for the first time this season.

paul wrote:Could be just me (and Taurus apparantly), but i would think getting quality minutes and knowing you won't get the hook the first chance the coach gets might have added to his play tonight, for the first time this season.

who'd have thunk it?

Without fully discounting the effect his work habits and temperament have on his development, I suspect that playing on Herb Kohl's team (or Coach K's team) is for CV like being exiled to another planet where he's largely ignored.

Treat some people like a non-factor and they'll act like a non-factor. (And to say that he owes it to the game, or to his career, to always play hard is IMO a formula that sounds fine coming out of a coach's mouth but doesn't apply in every situation.)

Had the Bucks brass better known the man and crafted a place for him here, I think we'd have a better player. He may never "maximize" his potential - but that doesn't mean he won't fit in well on some team, helping them win and making them, yes, stronger.

(IOW, I'm back on the speaking up for CV bus. Back to suggesting that the team has handled him poorly. Handled him as just a lazy player, when I think he's something a little different than that.)

dupe post

CV did fine when he was healthy at the beginning of last year.

I think he needs to feel like he's needed for now. And I think he'll be able to grow out of his laziness (somewhat) as he gets older and more mature.

Why? Because he seems to want to get better. Relaxed players like Big Dog and Derrick Coleman never seemed to want to get better.

Why not give him a chance and see if an offseason of weights helps him out (he had to rehab this past summer)?

I understand where you guys are getting these ideas from but CV is just a smooth player. He is just streaky...When he succeeds it look easy and when he fails it looks like hes not trying. Banging doesnt equal trying. Maybe he has mental lapses but that doesnt mean hes not trying. Another reason that he may not be as effective 100% of the time is because of the atmosphere the coach puts him in. There is obviously tension...

CV needs to play with a fire lit under his ass EVERY game in order to see results. Coach Mitchell was on his ass every game in Toronto and he still was sleepwalking at times.

Seriously, he is the type of guy that would put up monster numbers during a contact year, you would sign and trade him and the team that picks him up would be like, what the hell did we sign this scrub for.

He is so inconsistent, which is the only consistent thing about him. I guess the only other consistent thing about him is that he can't play defense.

Oh yeah, I still love Charlie as a person, and I still have all his autographed rookie cards, but he doesn't belong on the bucks and you might as well trade him when he is high.

Man, what happened....

http://www.tradingcardcentral.com/forum ... opic=27218

ever since his 48point game, never the same

paul wrote:Could be just me (and Taurus apparantly), but i would think getting quality minutes and knowing you won't get the hook the first chance the coach gets might have added to his play tonight, for the first time this season.

I would guess this to be true.

Charlie probably views this as his chance. I can see him being excited and he certainly gave effort last night. When you are a backup you need to play well and earn time. Then when the inevitable injury occurs, take advantage of your opportunity. 1 game in, he did just that.

When Charlie works hard he does real well. Now carry that to the next game. To the weight room. Then I'm happy.

My fear is that he will once again disappear. A very frustrating player.

I'll offer one last time: Our franchise doesn't know how to handle CV. They've been trying to "tough love" force his round peg into their square hole.

When a player is put together differently, you treat him differently. I'd guess Stotts was bad at that. And Coach K inherited the "problem," probably tried a midwest brand of "being reasonable," saw it not produce his desired results, and hardened.

Either CV has a flurry of success now, and that redefines the fundamental relationship, or the franchise might as well admit failure and trade him - to a team where he can mature because the pressure to improve his bad habits is combined with an appreciation for the distinctive quality of his strengths.

unklchuk wrote:Treat some people like a non-factor and they'll act like a non-factor. (And to say that he owes it to the game, or to his career, to always play hard is IMO a formula that sounds fine coming out of a coach's mouth but doesn't apply in every situation.)

exactly

he was brought here to be our starting pf, plays really well throughout those games and then gets hurt. so he's rehabbing and getting ready to come back and be the starter, and then we draft a new player at his position and quasi-promise him minutes.

the new starter plays well for a while, then starts to suck, and sucks for a while but still no chance to start. i just think it's ridiculous

I remember when we had Keith Van Horn that he would never be productive off the bench, only when he was starting. Both players had motivational issues and are basically the same player. Charlie V though can be a beast when he wants to be.

jerrod wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



exactly

he was brought here to be our starting pf, plays really well throughout those games and then gets hurt. so he's rehabbing and getting ready to come back and be the starter, and then we draft a new player at his position and quasi-promise him minutes.

the new starter plays well for a while, then starts to suck, and sucks for a while but still no chance to start. i just think it's ridiculous

Agreed, but your beating your head against a brick wall jerrod. I've been saying almost the exact same thing since early in the season but most people have disagreed every time i've said it. Apparantly the extreme dislike of CV and bias towards Yi extends far beyond our illustrious coaching staff.

The double standards implemented between Yi and CV are unbelievable at times, for some reason if CV goes 4/10 he's a chucker, but if Yi goes 1/10 all from long range we're fine with it. If CV misses a defensive rotation he gets splinters in his a** from hitting the bench so fast, if Yi does it we're fine with it, in fact most people don't even see it and continue to proclaim Yi to be a great defender. I guarantee you the first average to below average game CV has he'll be straight back to scrub minutes, while Yi could go another 20 crap games in a row and continue to be the golden child. CV can out score, out rebound and generally outplay Yi in fewer minutes yet people still claim Yi is far superior. It's tough to work out.

I actually find I'm being harder on Yi because of the ridiculous situation of him playing crap but still getting minutes over CV and really it's not his fault. LK's got a fair bit to answer for.