Herb Kohl As A Business Man

[75totheMACCfund]

A lot of people think the issues facing the Bucks go back to Herb Kohl. I wanted to create a thread to get some opinions on Kohl as a business man because it obviously relates to him as an owner of this business...the Milwaukee Bucks.

Take a look at some of the bios below of other NBA owners of successful teams...

The success of the franchise begins at the top...let's review some of the owners of other teams in the NBA as their success on the court is related to their business success off the court...

Peter Holt...Owner of the SA Spurs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Holt

William Davidson...Owner of the Detroit Pistons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Davidson

Jerry Colangelo...Owner of the Phoenix Suns
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Colangelo

Mark Cuban...Owner of the Dallas Mavericks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Cuban

Dan Gilbert...Owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Gilber ... nessman%29

Larry Miller...Owner of the Utah Jazz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_H._Miller

Jerry Buss...Owner of the LA Lakers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Buss


Most of these individuals are "Self-Made" men who are incredibly successful...

Herb Kohl, it seems, was handed the Kohl's operation, sold it off and has been a successful politician ever since. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. Perhaps the older posters on this board who know more about Kohl's and Herb Kohl can fill the void in my blatantly vague history of Herb Kohl, but was he ever a successful business man or was he more the luck of a inheriting Kohl's?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herb_Kohl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohl%27s

and yes, I did use wikipedia...

Thoughts?

[75totheMACCfund]

P.S. It was the Senator's birthday on the 7th, hope you guys sent a card to him.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

Don't forget Blazers and Heat. Those are the two big ones.

[75totheMACCfund]

what about them?

[75totheMACCfund]

And I know this theory has flaws in it like the owner of Memphis is incredibly successful off the court and sucks on the court. You have to factor market size and what not...I just think it has some relevance

[MickeyDavis]

I think a thread on this is a good idea UNLESS it turns political, at which point it will be locked.

To be honest I don't really know what Kohl's role was in the family business. What I do know is that he has little basketball knowledge and has refused to hire someone who DOES have basketball knowledge and get the hell out of the way.


What kills me is that Kohl hasn't been afraid to spend money, he's just spent it poorly much of the time.

[MickeyDavis]

Being successful in one business doesn't mean you will automatically be successful in another. Business models vary greatly. And you would think that after 20+ years of futility Kohl would decide he needs to change the way he runs the Bucks. But that has never happened.

[drew881]

How an owner acquires his wealth is not an issue. I think it starts with hiring good people to direct your business, and being willing to pay for these people, who can evaluate talent properly, and then you can spend the money on the players.

Look at Robert Kraft. I'm pretty sure he inherited the Kraft business. Same with the owners of the Giants now. Look at the Maloofs in Sacramento - they got their father's casino if i'm not mistaken.

As much as I hate it that these guys inherited franchises and or multi million dollar companies (ie, not self made), they have done a decent job bringing in operations guys (gm's, pres of operations, scouts, etc) that do most of the work. Moreover, they give these people a decent amount of say in making moves (something Kohl does not).

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

what about them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Allen

Paul Allen could probably buy all 30 teams in the NBA if that were possible. I think his net worth is greater than all other NBA owners combined - though I might be overestimating.

[75totheMACCfund]

His political career is irrelevant to this discussion.

From the brief bio, it seems he was handed the keys to Kohl's, sold it and then it became quite prosperous. Moreover, his bio states he has a net worth of only 279 million. Which I know is a large amount of money, but probably fairly small in relatively speaking.

It's just strange, when he did spend the money to pay Karl and EG, he had the greatest success of his tenure as an owner. Why wouldn't he learn from that business model?

[75totheMACCfund]

How an owner acquires his wealth is not an issue. I think it starts with hiring good people to direct your business, and being willing to pay for these people, who can evaluate talent properly, and then you can spend the money on the players.

Look at Robert Kraft. I'm pretty sure he inherited the Kraft business. Same with the owners of the Giants now. Look at the Maloofs in Sacramento - they got their father's casino if i'm not mistaken.

As much as I hate it that these guys inherited franchises and or multi million dollar companies (ie, not self made), they have done a decent job bringing in operations guys (gm's, pres of operations, scouts, etc) that do most of the work. Moreover, they give these people a decent amount of say in making moves (something Kohl does not).

This is where my question of Kohl's ownership of Kohl's Corporation is relevant. Did he just have a cup of coffee with the business and then sell it, getting no business experience, or was he with them a decent amount of time? He went to Harvard Business School, now I'm sure he didn't learn about stroking NBA egos there, but you gotta figure he learned that if you put money into something, you usually get money out.

[drew881]

On another line of discussion....Lets form a list of senile owners. Are ANY of them successful??

Kohl - Bucks are horrible, he needs to hire people instead of making decisions

Ralph Wilson - Bills are pretty bad. Uncertainty over who will takeover the team after Wilson dies (Wilson will not name anyone) leaves the team in a horrible position.

Al Davis - we all see how he steps in and messes things up, trying to fire a coach every year.

Other examples?

[75totheMACCfund]

-= original quote snipped =-


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Allen

Paul Allen could probably buy all 30 teams in the NBA if that were possible. I think his net worth is greater than all other NBA owners combined - though I might be overestimating.

I understand where you're coming from...I should have made an initial note in the first post saying this doesn't apply to every team. But look at the Blazers now...Paul Allen hires a basketball guy in Kevin Pritchard and they're starting to really have success.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Pritchard

[75totheMACCfund]

James Dolan isn't necessarily senile...more incompetent

[Andrew34r]

Does anyone know how long has Ron Walter, John Steinmiller and Mike Burr have been employed by the Bucks?

[MickeyDavis]

Steiny has been there since 1969. I believe Walter joined the Bucks in 1992.

As for the other "senile" owners at least they have had some pretty good success in their younger years as owners. Kohl...not so much.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

Being successful in one business doesn't mean you will automatically be successful in another. Business models vary greatly. And you would think that after 20+ years of futility Kohl would decide he needs to change the way he runs the Bucks. But that has never happened.

Reason #101 why Warren Buffett is as good as he is. He knows he can't run any business outside of the insurance or banking industry so he never considers trying. He's just the master of getting a talented manager in place, and structuring their contract so that they are rewarded by their success.

Buffett would never buy a sports team because it's an inefficient use of his money, but if he did, I'm sure he'd get a great GM, and give him a one of a kind contract. Maybe a flat 750k a year, plus 250k for every win over 41? That way if the GM sucks, you barely have to pay him. But if he wins 50 games, he gets $3 million. If he wins 60 games, he gets $5.5 million.

That seems to be the kind of compensation structure that could attract a competitive personality (as most in sports are), and they'd have no reason to ever look for work elsewhere unless they thought they couldn't win. Obviously that plan wouldn't work if the team needed to be blown up though, so I'd have to think about how you handle that.

[75totheMACCfund]

-= original quote snipped =-

Reason #101 why Warren Buffett is as good as he is. He knows he can't run any business outside of the insurance or banking industry so he never considers trying. He's just the master of getting a talented manager in place, and structuring their contract so that they are rewarded by their success.

Buffett would never buy a sports team because it's an inefficient use of his money, but if he did, I'm sure he'd get a great GM, and give him a one of a kind contract. Maybe a flat 750k a year, plus 250k for every win over 41? That way if the GM sucks, you barely have to pay him. But if he wins 50 games, he gets $3 million. If he wins 60 games, he gets $5.5 million.

That seems to be the kind of compensation structure that could attract a competitive personality (as most in sports are), and they'd have no reason to ever look for work elsewhere unless they thought they couldn't win. Obviously that plan wouldn't work if the team needed to be blown up though, so I'd have to think about how you handle that.

Is that legal in the NBA? That type of compensation based on winning?

[MickeyDavis]

I don't see why not. There is no salary cap for management. Performance bonuses are quite common in business.

[DanoMac]

P.S. It was the Senator's birthday on the 7th, hope you guys sent a card to him.

I couldn't find any triple digit age cards at my local grocery store.