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Now that Larry Krystkowiak is unhappy with the way his team is playing. Its all out in the open so changes gotta be on it way. We all know that herb kohl love Krystkowiak so he not getting fired. Krystkowiak want players that wants to win, Player that wants to play hard on defence player who like to hustle on both end of the floor and Players who doesn't care about their stat. We need a true PG that pass first and we need a leader that will get in your face if you ain't playing hard. We need a Charles Oakley a guy that will knock you on your butt if you come in the lane. We have three players to build around and thats Yi our future Dirk a better defender we have our man down low Bogut and our Redd our Dale Ellis all we really need is our lockdown defender at the Sf and pass first pg and a better bench we have guys we can keep to come off the bench our back sg/sf Mason back up pg Ramon Session bring back Ilyasova our back sf/pf these some good player and we to add depth. We players that fit Larry K coaching style.

I've never believed in this team so this season's results don't surprise me unfortunately. I think many people here are now in agreement that major changes need to be made - what we're differing on is who needs to stay and who needs to go. Frankly, the only player I absolutely really want to keep right now is Bogut. I would trade Bogut in the right deal but given the improvements he's made this season I'd ask for a heckuva lot in return for him.

Everyone else?

They can all go as far as I'm concerned.

I completely agree with you. Even Cassell said last night, "these guys aren't that far away". Sometimes all you need is that right trade or two to propel your guys to the potential they were brought in to show.

Bogut, Yi, and Redd are good building blocks. It'd be really interesting to see a Nocioni or Gerald Wallace at the SF, and an undervalued team player like Andre Miller at the PG. I know it's impossible now, but Rajon Rondo would be a perfect future PG for this team. He plays defense and works hard.

If I was LH, I'd be desperately working 24/7 looking for trades to use Mo and CV's potential and trade value to get rid of the contracts of Simmons and/or Gadz. Hopefully then we'd get a good fit for this team in return and free up cap space for a good fit free agent.

jeremyd236 wrote:I completely agree with you. Even Cassell said last night, "these guys aren't that far away". Sometimes all you need is that right trade or two to propel your guys to the potential they were brought in to show.

Bogut, Yi, and Redd are good building blocks. It'd be really interesting to see a Nocioni or Gerald Wallace at the SF, and an undervalued team player like Andre Miller at the PG. I know it's impossible now, but Rajon Rondo would be a perfect future PG for this team. He plays defense and works hard.

If I was LH, I'd be desperately working 24/7 looking for trades to use Mo and CV's potential and trade value to get rid of the contracts of Simmons and/or Gadz. Hopefully then we'd get a good fit for this team in return and free up cap space for a good fit free agent.

Unless we magically end up with a superstar in the draft this season, that would be the absolute worst lineup you could envision.

Not good enough to win in the second round, but not bad enough to get a top five pick.

I honestly still don't think we should blow up. Call me stupid if you will.

But I honestly believe if Stan Van Gundy, Jeff Van Gundy, or Rick Carlisle were coaching this team we'd be playoff bound no doubt.

I think at the deadline we do everything we can to move all of CV/Simmons/Gadz clean a little house and keep around Mo/Redd/Bell/Yi/Bogut, Mason is the only leader on this team.

I'd be fine with dealing Mo in the offseason if we could bring back a true veteran leader PG, but I don't really know who fits that bill (and don't say Andre Miller)

Nuke It!!

europa wrote:I've never believed in this team so this season's results don't surprise me unfortunately. I think many people here are now in agreement that major changes need to be made - what we're differing on is who needs to stay and who needs to go. Frankly, the only player I absolutely really want to keep right now is Bogut. I would trade Bogut in the right deal but given the improvements he's made this season I'd ask for a heckuva lot in return for him.

Everyone else?

They can all go as far as I'm concerned.

When I saw this team play the TWolves in the preseason I knew we were more than likely in for a long year just by the putrid effort displayed by CVill. The only way I saw this team being decent was if everyone stayed healthy, Bogut developed into a 15/10 guy, and Larry K was a major upgrade at coach. Well other than Bogut getting close to those numbers nothing else has come true.

Couldn't agree more with the above statement. I want major moves and I don't care who goes. Everyone is available. I would hang onto Yi for potential and monetary reasons.

By now everyone knows that I wanted a strong, physical 4 before the season started; specifically Horford. When that didn't happen I pretty much wrote off this season. I think maybe if that would have happened, we wouldn't be having this discussion; but I'm not sure it would have made enough of a difference because of the make-up of our back court. Mo and Redd together is a recipe for defensive suicide (IMHO). At this point, I'm ready to keep Bogut and that is it! The problem is (IMHO) that the one guy I would like to keep is the least likely to want to stay........

Bogutneedsball wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



When I saw this team play the TWolves in the preseason I knew we were more than likely in for a long year just by the putrid effort displayed by CVill. The only way I saw this team being decent was if everyone stayed healthy, Bogut developed into a 15/10 guy, and Larry K was a major upgrade at coach. Well other than Bogut getting close to those numbers nothing else has come true.

I had major issues with the team's composition dating back to last summer. I believe I was called "Doctor Gloom" or something by a few people here who thought I was too negative. Unfortunately, many of the things I've talked about have come to pass. I just believe and have always believed this is a team that was poorly put together with major talent issues and serious depth questions and an almost universal aversion to playing defense.

Couldn't agree more with the above statement. I want major moves and I don't care who goes. Everyone is available. I would hang onto Yi for potential and monetary reasons.

I'd hang onto Yi too but I'm not married to him. If a team offered a proven veteran player of quality talent for him I'd trade him in a heartbeat. I really want to see this team get more proven experience, not more unproven youth.

There are no untouchables on a 19-33 team.

I still want to pick either a 'win it now' or a 'rebuild' style just like I have for a long time now.

Last year and the year before I wanted to try to move Bogut and/or CV and/or our pick for Gasol or other premier players. This off season I was hoping we'd make a move for another all-star level player... But it just hasn't happened.

I still wish we'd trade some of our young bigs/Mo/picks with filler and try to get one or two more all-star players.

If not then get rid of Redd/CV and hit the reset button. Try to find a star player in the draft that Bogut and Mo can support.

I honestly don't think the Bucks have a 'player to build around'. Redd is a great second best player, Bogut is a very solid player and Mo is a solid player... But I wouldn't want to 'build around' any of them.

MickeyDavis wrote:There are no untouchables on a 19-33 team.

I agree. I would hold a team hostage for Bogut, though. He's probably the closest thing this team has to an untouchable. That's not to say I wouldn't trade him - I would - but I'd really want to get something back in return.

I'd build around Mo/Yi/Bogut. Trade the rest for defense-oriented players and/or picks. Draft best available in the draft, although a pass-first PG that can play D like Collison would be nice.

Trading young, key players only makes you worse...

Unless you get some quick fix, which is dumb management... Like Zach Randolph.


I say let Bogut and Yi grow and use Villanueva as a trade piece to move up in the coming draft to get the right SF.

LUKE23 wrote:I'd build around Mo/Yi/Bogut. Trade the rest for defense-oriented players and/or picks. Draft best available in the draft, although a pass-first PG that can play D like Collison would be nice.

I dont even know about Mo. He seems too get hurt easy. I would blow it up except for Bogut and YI. Even a guy like Flowers would be a good pick up as far as role players.

Redd, CV, Yi and Sessions I would keep. Everyone else can go. None of it matters if the Larry's are still around though. Both Larry's have to go first!

forget all these stupid comments about blowing it up will only make it worse. the bucks are currently in the worst possible position. they will not make the play-offs and they've won too many games to get a top 3 pick. Yi is looking a lot more like TT every game. redd is acting like he wants to be traded. Bogut is almost as good as Vlad who was never a guy to build a franchise around. tere is nothing here tha t can't be replaced with something better.

for those that fear the Bucks will get worse, all i can say is that wit h the current cast, they will never get any better than they are today. is this what you want for the next decade?

I would rather suffer a year or two watching guys like gordon or beasley develop into a superstar than to watch the current bucks who don't know if Yi or CV should start.

Yes, Yi is so terrible. He's played an entire 1/2 season in the NBA. Definitely the next Tim Thomas....

I didn't say Yi was terrible. i said the Bucks coaching staff doesn't have a plan of how to use Yi. they also don't know who is better- Yi or CV. There are many on this board who believe CV is the better player and should start over YI.

Please don't give me the crap about it's only 1/2 year of experience. I've seen that excuse used every single year. people are still using that excuse for bogut. people used that excuse for 4 years for TT.

TT is not a bad player. if he was, he wouldn't be a starter. But i highly doubt Yi will be anything better than TT. Am I dissing Yi by comparing him to TT? or am I complimenting Yi?

If you blow it up I think you need new management in place first, especially a GM that will prioritize defense when acquiring players. While Harris' hands are sometimes tied on moves, his evaluation checklist seems to read "#1 scoring, #2 scoring, #3 scoring, etc" with defense and basketball IQ maybe coming in at around number 8 or 9.

Build a fundamentally solid defensive team, see how much scoring you have and then add scorers as needed, not vice versa. If that becomes the plan, Bogut can stay. Yi is just too athletically gifted for a 7 footer to let go, but needs a defensive bruiser type complementary backup. You could try to keep one, at most, of either Mo or Redd at SG, but if you keep one that just puts more pressure on the GM to pick stellar defensive perimeter players to compensate. I suppose you could live with Mo at SG; Redd however is Mr. Agenda, he's like a very pretty (i.e. high scoring) girlfriend that is high maintenance, but doesn't realize that she is high maintenance, and so relentlessly grates on you until you can't stand to even look at her anymore - the worst combination possible.

If you would build a solid defensive-minded starting 5 you wouldn't have to overcompensate on hustling D type guys for the bench like we have to now, so that the offense goes into the deep freeze when you start subbing. Theoretically Bell, Simmons and CV/Yi should have given us some bench scoring this year but they were all either out of shape, injured, or sulking about roles - again the "agenda" thing Coach K is getting after.

So in short, I'd keep Bogut, Yi and maybe Mo.