OT: Ray Allen is an All Star

DH34Phan · Post #1 » by **DH34Phan** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:41 am

The guy whose game is declining just got named to the All Star team instead of Caron Butler.

So that's 2 (?) All Star games for Ray since we got Max Redd (0 ASG since 2005) over him.

Mags FTW · Post #2 » by **Mags FTW** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:55 am

Ray Allen's Previous Teams
'07 SEA: 31-51
'06 SEA: 35-47
'05 SEA: 52-30
'04 SEA: 37-45

Yes, Ray is a quality player but let's not go nuts. Before this year he was on 1 winning team since the trade. And the Bucks were a mediocre 27-26 the night before he was traded. I don't have a problem with the old management trading him while Redd (and a much cheaper Redd at that) was waiting in the wings.

I DO have a problem with what he was traded for though...

BTW-Redd is averaging more points, more rebounds and more assists than Allen in fewer minutes so I'm not sure what kind of argument you're trying to make here. If Redd had KG and Pierce as his wingmen he'd probably be in the ASG too.

ReddManBogieMan · Post #3 » by **ReddManBogieMan** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:07 am

Redd has better numbers.

Winning is rewarded.

LISTEN2JAZZ · Post #4 » by **LISTEN2JAZZ** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:26 pm

People around the league don't value Redd very highly. Two or three more people would have to get injured before they'd get down to Redd on their list.

Post #5 » by **MickeyDavis** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:13 pm

adamcz wrote:People around the league don't value Redd very highly. Two or three more people would have to get injured before they'd get down to Redd on their list.

Maybe. But it's Redd, not Allen, on the national team.

I love Ray Ray but he's on the AST because of KG and PP.

SupremeHustle · Post #6 » by **SupremeHustle** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:31 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Maybe. But it's Redd, not Allen, on the national team.

Maaan.

Ray won a gold medal in the Olympics, not some games in Vegas. Ray was an Olympian.

Redd? Not so much.

Newz · Post #7 » by **Newz** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:35 pm

I'm pretty sure Redd would be in the all-star game if he took Allen's place on the Celtics. :lol:

SupremeHustle · Post #8 » by **SupremeHustle** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:36 pm

LukePliska wrote:I'm pretty sure Redd would be in the all-star game if he took Allen's place on the Celtics.

Agreed!

Post #9 » by **MickeyDavis** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:39 pm

SupremeHustle wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Maaan.

Ray won a gold medal in the Olympics, not some games in Vegas. Ray was an Olympian.

Redd? Not so much.

Yup, Ray was an Olympian. Now Redd is and Ray is not. Ray is still a good player but he's definitely on the downside of a good career.

SupremeHustle · Post #10 » by **SupremeHustle** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:42 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Yup, Ray was an Olympian. Now Redd is and Ray is not. Ray is still a good player but he's definitely on the downside of a good career.

We'll see if Redd makes the team that plays in the Olympics. I'm pulling for him, but it's not a lock with a couple of players coming back who were hurt for the games in Vegas.

InsideOut · Post #11 » by **InsideOut** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:10 pm

adamcz wrote:People around the league don't value Redd very highly. Two or three more people would have to get injured before they'd get down to Redd on their list.

Not true. Europa's sources tell him and he keeps telling us how Redd is thought of so highly around the league. He's thought of as one of the best SG in the league. Of course that ignores all the evidence to the contrary. It boggles my mind how he can be thought of as one of the best SG in the league and yet all these people that respect him won't add him to the team. Not even as a replacement or even when he has better numbers than Ray. I guess Ray just must be respected more.

Post #12 » by **paulpressey25** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:17 pm

Ray's a better player.....even if the "stats" are equal or Ray is showing a decline slightly based on age or being on the C's.....

I used to not think that, but four years now of watching Redd has brought me to that conclusion.

europa · Post #13 » by **europa** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:21 pm

InsideOut wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Not true. Europa's sources tell him and he keeps telling us how Redd is thought of so highly around the league.

So do GAD's. Plenty of national writers have written the same thing. Just curious why you and others continue to omit this rather important aspect of the discussion and focus only on me.

And yes Ray is on the decline and yes he's an All-Star as a result of being on a great team. Winning is rewarded. Not sure why that is such a shocker - maybe it's because we're not used to seeing much of that in these parts.

LISTEN2JAZZ · Post #14 » by **LISTEN2JAZZ** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:42 pm

Europa's sources say that Redd is highly valued around the NBA and my sourecs say that he is not. My sources are corroborated by tangible evidence, but Europa's sources are refuted by it.

showtimesam · Post #15 » by **showtimesam** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:45 pm

Ray was a better player than redd and still is.

He just plays in the flow of an offense so much better than redd. He's also a smarter passer and better ball handler.

That said, Redd is superior at getting to the basket, and also has better size.

But I really miss the Ray days at this point. That said it was still a good move to trade Ray, with Redd waiting in the wings, but they didn't get the return that they needed to.

europa · Post #16 » by **europa** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:46 pm

adamcz wrote:Europa's sources say that Redd is highly valued around the NBA and my sourecs say that he is not. My sources are corroborated by tangible evidence, but Europa's sources are refuted by it.

And again I wonder why I'm being singled out when GAD says the same thing and plenty of national writers do as well. Quite odd.

InsideOut · Post #17 » by **InsideOut** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:51 pm

europa wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

So do GAD's. Plenty of national writers have written the same thing. Just curious why you and others continue to omit this rather important aspect of the discussion and focus only on me.

I think it's because we've all read a lot of posts where you've made the comment but I can't recall of GAD having ever mentioned that. I'm sure he has but I'm also sure you've mentioned it 10X as much. That's just my opinion but if others are doing the same thing there must be a valid reason.

I think Redd is more respected for being a nice guy and a Christian. I have a hard time believing that he'd be left off the all-star team and 3pt contest year after year if he's thought of as one of the best SG in the league. Actions speak louder than words. I also find it odd that if the media thinks he's so great that there isn't this outrage that he wasn't added to the team. It's to the point where he's expected not to make the team so how highly regarded can he be?

Newz · Post #18 » by **Newz** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:53 pm

Hilarious thread.

When Ray was here he was the 'soft, no defense playing, overrated' shooting guard. Then he leaves suddenly he is a much better player.

If Redd were on the Celtics they would either be just as good, if not better.

Another amusing thing is when people chose to believe Europa and when people don't chose to. When it is a thread about Mo being a maniac then Europa's sources are strong and credible... But if they say Redd is a valued played in the league (Which I don't understand how you can argue he isn't valuable) then all of the sudden his sources mean nothing.

showtimesam · Post #19 » by **showtimesam** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:54 pm

europa wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

And again I wonder why I'm being singled out when GAD says the same thing and plenty of national writers do as well. Quite odd.

I don't get how anyone can give Europa a hard time at this point. He's given us some great inside info. And he has no reason to make Redd look like something better than he is.

As far as I'm concerned Europa hasn't shown any unreasonable love for any players except for the fact he wants to build a winning team. I'm down with that as well.

I also hope Redd is highly regarded if the bucks start floating his name around. I'm sure plenty of teams would love to have him. The contract makes it a little tougher to deal him, but I'm sure the bucks can get a good return on redd if they try.

europa · Post #20 » by **europa** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:56 pm

InsideOut wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I think it's because we've all read a lot of posts where you've made the comment but I can't recall of GAD having ever mentioned that. I'm sure he has but I'm also sure you've mentioned it 10X as much. That's just my opinion but if others are doing the same thing there must be a valid reason.

I can't think of a valid reason why people would single me out when others here who I assume you and others hold in high esteem (or higher than myself) make the exact same comments or when national reporters make the exact same comments or when we have Top 50/Top 100 lists which show Redd being regarded in such fashion every year or when he's picked to play on the National Team and people there rave about him and refer to him by the designation some here seem so put off by.

Again, I can't think of a valid reason why all of that would be ignored just so you and others would take shots at me. I can think of plenty of reasons which are childish and petty, but nothing valid.

As far as Redd this year why would there be an "outrage" if he got left off? He plays on an absolutely pathetic team. Why would any Buck deserve to be picked this year? Ray Allen plays on arguably the best story in the NBA this year and has a much higher profile and always has. And if the only way you can be considered highly regarded is to make the All-Star team than I guess the people around the league must not like Deron Williams much either. I don't see him on the All-Star team this year. I guess he sucks too by this measure of evaluation.