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I've been following the ongoing Jason Kidd to the Mavs saga.
One issue for the Mavs that results from that trade (something many Mavs fans are talking about) is that they have a depth problem at center since they'd be sending Diop to the Nets. They are interested in getting someone to replace Diop who could block shots, play defense, and rebound, while not needing to get shots on the offensive end.

That sounds similar to a description of Dan Gadzuric.

I realize he has underperformed, but perhaps the Mavs would be interested.
Also, Gadzuric seems to be at his best when he has a good puppet master pulling his strings (Kukoc, Ford). Who is better at stuff like that than Jason Kidd?

I like Gadzuric more than most, but at this point we'd be better off dumping him I think if we can do so relatively painlessly.

Now is our chance to do that possibly. We should attempt to exploit Dallas' circumstances for our benefit.

I can make it work just as a two team trade between the Bucks and Mavs easily enough BUT it requires the Mavs sending us Maurice Ager. Unfortunately he is currently slated to be part of the Kidd trade. I can still make it work without Ager but it means involving either KVH or Vernon Maxwell so we'd be better off just rolling this into the Kidd trade:

Bucks:
Gadzuric to Mavs
Ivey to Mavs
Ruffin to Mavs
Storey to Mavs
Noel to Mavs

Nets:
Kidd to Mavs
Malik Allen to Mavs
Antoine Wright to Mavs

Mavs:
Devin Harris to Nets
Diop to Nets
Hassell to Nets
Stackhouse to Nets
Maurice Ager to Nets
$3 mil cash to Nets
2nd round pick to Nets
JJ Barea to Bucks
Nick Fazekas to Bucks
Juwon Howard to Bucks
Eddie Jones to Bucks

Stackhouse would be waived at some point after that and sign with the Mavs 30 days later, but if the Mavs don't want to go 30 days without Stackhouse's services, they can use KVH or Vernon Maxwell in a S&T instead. The trade would work the same.

Most people probably assume that since I am mentioning it, it would be an allowable trade, and that would be a correct assumption. I just figured I'd eliminate any doubt by saying so
I went over the details with a fine tooth comb and used a number of my favorite tricks to make it work. For example, the Mavs are able to acquire Ivey, Ruffin, Storey, and Noel from the Bucks using MSEs.


I realize this is a very large trade with many players involved (17) and normally I would say that the trade is too large to be realistic. But the Kidd trade would theoretically be happening either way, and that involves 8 of those players already.

I added 9 players to the deal (5 Bucks and 4 Mavs) but out of those 9 players only Ivey plays much. The other 8 basically never play at this point in their current situations. So I wouldn't be concerned about the "wholesale changes" concern that is often associated with big trades.

Thoughts?
They'll likely see this on here anyway, but just in case they don't, I'm considering getting this idea to the front office for their consideration.

Sounds like the Mavs and Nets will be able to get the Kidd trade done without a third team. So if that's the case I wonder what the Bucks could get back from Dallas for Gadz after the Kidd trade is done?

Well I dont think theres any way the Mavs trade Stackhouse now. It sounds like the league wouldnt let them re-sign him this season and I doubt theyre just willing to lose him like that.

I should add that the players the Bucks would be getting back have expiring contracts, except for Nick Fazekas who is scheduled to make $711,517 next season but that might be NG'd (I'd have to check)

In any event, for all intents and purposes this would be us clearing out Gadzuric and his contract while taking back essentially nothing as far as committed salaries.

At least it would be something helpful in one aspect for this organization. I realize that wouldn't exactly change people's minds about the state of the franchise, but I fear this might be the only kind of trade Kohl will sign off on this season.

Has there ever been a trade moving this many players at once?

Just doesn't seem like it would happen.

GrandAdmiralDan wrote:I should add that the players the Bucks would be getting back have expiring contracts, except for Nick Fazekas who is scheduled to make $711,517 next season but that might be NG'd (I'd have to check)

In any event, for all intents and purposes this would be us clearing out Gadzuric and his contract while taking back essentially nothing as far as committed salaries.

At least it would be something helpful in one aspect for this organization. I realize that wouldn't exactly change people's minds about the state of the franchise, but I fear this might be the only kind of trade Kohl will sign off on this season.

Maybe you could work it so we get Magloire back

Im not even sure if im joking or not.

I would think you should separate the Nets/Mavs trade from this and just talk theoretically about a Mavs/Bucks trade. As said above, it appears they're going to get the trade done without a 3rd team, so why bother trying to make it one blockbuster move?

Alas, I really dislike this trade for Milwaukee, the 5/4 Bucks/Mavs trade that is. My problem is that we're giving up alot of youth (Storey, Ivey, Noel) for a little bit more experience in a place/time we don't need it. Jones and Howard aren't anywhere near their prime (I believe they're 37 and 35 respectively). Fazekas doesn't play at all, so I have no clue of his ability/talent, and Barea doesn't seem to be much of an upside potential-wise. The possibility of what Storey, Ivey, OR Noel could become (say just 10ppg scorers/bench) seems to be much more than what Fazekas or Barea could become.

Now, if you wanted to make this move because of capspace, that's different I suppose as I haven't checked that deal out. But with our current wonderful management, who's to say cap space is the best thing.

europa wrote:Sounds like the Mavs and Nets will be able to get the Kidd trade done without a third team. So if that's the case I wonder what the Bucks could get back from Dallas for Gadz after the Kidd trade is done?

I addressed this in my original post.
The Nets and Mavs don't need the Bucks to step in to get the Kidd trade to work, it is the Bucks and Mavs who need my trade rolled into the Kidd trade in order to get it to work without involving more players or involving KVH or Vernon Maxwell S&Ts.

Look at the Mavs roster after the Kidd trade (I left that trade unaltered in my post). Good luck trying to get Gadz on that team without adding significant players from both sides and/or multiple teams.

It is easier to just roll it into the Kidd trade.

Maybe after the dust clears from the Kidd deal, the Bucks could offer something like:

Gadz/Ruffin for Hassell/Howard/Fazekas

We definitely can't pass up the chance to dump gadzuric, especially if we can get a guy who could help us like Juwan Howard in return.

Gadz would also be helped a lot by having a real coach and an incredible PG playign with him. I can see them being very interested in this kind of move, as going with Dirk as their only backup center is a horrid idea.

Maxwell can still be included in trades? The one that is now 42 years old and been out of the NBA for 4 years or so? I was surprised KVH could be included in a trade, but I havn't thought of Maxwell in ages.

Oops, sorry GAD. I hadn't read your follow-up post as I was replying to the original post. I suppose that giving us expirings/cap space is good, I just don't like giving up 3 of our prospects for the expirings in a market that I can't see of being fantastic.

Kohl Is A Mome wrote:Well I dont think theres any way the Mavs trade Stackhouse now. It sounds like the league wouldnt let them re-sign him this season and I doubt theyre just willing to lose him like that.

That is not true at all.
That was a garbage report from ESPN.

There were others as well like me who did this (so I'm not saying what happened was because of me, considering someone with far more clout than me apparently did the same thing) but I contacted someone at the league office after that report came out to suggest they issue a clarification because people would likely believe the erroneous report.
Shortly after that Tim Frank made a public clarification and the League Office has requested that ESPN issue a retraction.

Stern has also publicly addressed this as well.

The can do the trade with Stackhouse involved and re-signing with the Mavs if they want to. If they don't it will be because someone pointed out to them that they could win more games during that 30 day period with Stackhouse still on the team as they jockey for playoff position.

LukePliska wrote:Has there ever been a trade moving this many players at once?

Just doesn't seem like it would happen.

Did you ignore the part where I specifically addressed that argument?

You could at least tell me that you just happen to disagree with the rationale I laid out there, fair enough, but you make it sound like you didn't even read that part.

GrandAdmiralDan wrote:I realize this is a very large trade with many players involved (17) and normally I would say that the trade is too large to be realistic. But the Kidd trade would theoretically be happening either way, and that involves 8 of those players already.

I added 9 players to the deal (5 Bucks and 4 Mavs) but out of those 9 players only Ivey plays much. The other 8 basically never play at this point in their current situations. So I wouldn't be concerned about the "wholesale changes" concern that is often associated with big trades.

Debate me on that by all means. Perhaps you will change my mind. Maybe I didn't think it through well enough.
But "Just doesn't seem like it would happen." is a really boring/annoying response, my friend. [Mark Jackson]You're better than that![/Mark Jackson]

How about Eddie Jones/Devean George for Gadz?

Dallas will force Devean to leave, we just cut him and he can go wherever he wants.

Jason Kidd and Gadzuric all in one week.. How lucky can one city be....

GrandAdmiralDan wrote:-=Debate me on that by all means.

You are entering MBBOT territory by now quoting your own posts.....but hey, Kohl is wearing all of us down badly this year.....

I like the Gadz salary dump idea, but unfortunately don't see the Mavericks or the Nets (two competent organizations) letting Kohl, Ron Walter and Harris within 100 yards of the on-going Kidd deal.

L&H_05 wrote:Jason Kidd and Gadzuric all in one week.. How lucky can one city be....

Lebron probably wishes huh?

Mavs getting rid of Diop, I am sure they would welcome Gadz just for another Center

europa wrote:Maybe after the dust clears from the Kidd deal, the Bucks could offer something like:

Gadz/Ruffin for Hassell/Howard/Fazekas

That won't work if Hassell remains in the Kidd deal though.

The whole point of me rolling the trades into one was that Maurice Ager was not going to be available to go to us as he would be going to the Nets as part of that Kidd trade.

If Ager was available to us, we could just do my trade separately, but as I mentioned, that wouldn't work.
Ager and Hassell are unavailable in that scenario, which is why I said you'd be hard pressed to think of something that would work without involving players of significance from both teams and/or getting another team involved.

Unless you think that Devean George would consent to be traded to Milwaukee after only a few days ago not consenting to be traded to New Jersey