RealGM

4th quarter or OT, less than 5 minutes, neither team up by more than 5 points.

All stats are normalized Per-48 minutes

Redd (teh anti-clutch):
43.3 points
6.5 rebounds
3.5 assists
0 blocks
0.5 steals
5.0 TO
38.2% FG
28.6% 3pt.
86% FT
-24 +/-


Mo:
36.1 points
5.3 rebounds
6.6 assists
0 blocks
1.3 steals
2.6 TO
44.9% FG
40.9% 3pt.
93% FT
+7 +/-


More here.....

http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

Another Redd-Bashing Thread

I guess the numbers don't lie.

Not really a Redd bashing thread. More of an unfortunate reality thread.

Our maxed out "best" player is one of the wort crunch time players in the league.

You know why this stat is garbage?

When Mo and Redd are both in with less than 5 minutes left or in OT, REDD is the one getting doubled and triple teamed. You don't think Mo benefits off of that at all? Hell, I'd be curious to see Bogut or Yi or anyone elses stats in the last 5 minutes, I bet they all have better numbers.

jeremyd236 wrote:You know why this stat is garbage?
Because I like Michael Redd. And yes, my eyes tell me that he's the complete opposite of clutch. And yes, these numbers clearly bear that out. But, I still like Michael Redd. So this stat is garbage.

Fixed.

midranger wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Fixed.

Fixed? You are an idiot. Your hatred for Redd blinds you from the truth.

Michael Redd is a Team USA basketball player, Mo Williams is not. There's a reason for this.

I mean honestly, do you even watch the games? Teams go into Milwaukee knowing they have to stop one player, and its not Mo Williams. Mo Williams will never be an All Star and he'll never be the player Redd is. He'll never demand a constant double or triple team, and he'll never be on Team USA.

In the clutch, Redd turns the ball over, takes idiotic shots, and misses them.

Mo calls timeouts that we don't have, also takes bad shots from time to time (not even close to as often as Redd), and goes for layups down 3 with no time left.

Crap, or poop?

(And since those two are the best we got, what does that make the rest of the team? )

DH34Phan wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


LMAO.

That made me LMAO too. Yes Michael Redd was picked for Team USA because he's so clutch.

DH34Phan wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


LMAO.

this dude is holding onto that so hard his knuckles are turning white

Fixed? You are an idiot. Your hatred for Redd blinds you from the truth.

Michael Redd is a Team USA basketball player, Mo Williams is not. There's a reason for this.

I mean honestly, do you even watch the games? Teams go into Milwaukee knowing they have to stop one player, and its not Mo Williams. Mo Williams will never be an All Star and he'll never be the player Redd is. He'll never demand a constant double or triple team, and he'll never be on Team USA.

Because he can hit open 3's?

REDDzone wrote:In the clutch, Redd turns the ball over, takes idiotic shots, and misses them.

Mo calls timeouts that we don't have, also takes bad shots from time to time (not even close to as often as Redd), and goes for layups down 3 with no time left.

Crap, or poop?

(And since those two are the best we got, what does that make the rest of the team? )

haha, thats great

Relying on crap and poop to try and win games in the clutch, thats bucks basketball

You can't make much of an argument for either guy being particularly clutch.

REDDzone wrote:and goes for layups down 3 with no time left.

minor quibble


you imply that he's done that multiple times

I've been looking for these stats all year. I normally like Redd in the first 3 quarters of games. If he could only play within the game in the 4th and let it come to him he could be so much better.

I like the assisted percentage too...take out Kobe who basically is the PG and take out the PGs who obviously wont be taking too many assists and Redd is at the bottom of the barrel. Man, if I could only just watch Redd run off a bunch of screens in the 4th and catch and shoot instead of dribble, dribble, drive, OOOOHHHHH AND 1 or run off screens but catch, pump, pump, pump, contested fadeaway.

jeremyd236 wrote:You know why this stat is garbage?

When Mo and Redd are both in with less than 5 minutes left or in OT, REDD is the one getting doubled and triple teamed. You don't think Mo benefits off of that at all? Hell, I'd be curious to see Bogut or Yi or anyone elses stats in the last 5 minutes, I bet they all have better numbers.

If that we were the case then he should be averaging much better than 3.5 assists per game, considering the other players are playing 4 on 2 or 3 basketball. He should have more sense not to take the abundance of shots required to accumulate 43.3 points per 48, when he's shooting 38/29 percent from the field and 3-point land respectively. The least he could do is get us A shot if he's not going to score with any efficiency, which often he's not even capable of as evidenced by his extraordinarily high turnover rate. If he's going to give away possessions offensively, he could make up for it somewhat by creating extra possessions for his team on the defensive end. Unfortunately his .5 steals + blocks total is nearly the worst of anyone with a decent sized sample from which to draw. Fact of the matter is these numbers clearly show he's been horrible in crunch time this season.......that much isn't debateable.

GAD needs to post the link to those old crunch time ratings....I know Redd was way up there.....if you do some google searches you find guys on other teams message boards posting stuff like this from April 2004.

"....Go on NBA.COM and look at the top leaders in the crunch time stats... DO YOU SEE KOBE BRYANT UP THERE?

SHANE BATTIER IS HIGHER THAN KOBE!!! But how can you not say that Kobe is the most clutch player in the league... I mean... MIKE REDD is #1 on that list. The NBA likes to use STATS to tell you who they think is clutch....."

But I can't find the season standings link from 2003 and 2004 though.

Redd was a clutch player under Karl and Porter. Redd's now screwed up, but so is the whole team......The question I'd ask is why was Redd so clutch in the 2003-04 season (his all-star year) and why so bad today? What things are different?

jeremyd236 wrote:You know why this stat is garbage?

When Mo and Redd are both in with less than 5 minutes left or in OT, REDD is the one getting doubled and triple teamed. You don't think Mo benefits off of that at all? Hell, I'd be curious to see Bogut or Yi or anyone elses stats in the last 5 minutes, I bet they all have better numbers.

Mo has a +/- that is wayyy better than Redd's.

They are on the floor together in crunch time almost all the time when they are both healthy. This could mean one of two things:

1. Redd when on the court with Mo is getting triple teamed or whatever so clearly Mo must be playing better...well, since they are both on the court, their +/- is the same for that period of time, meaning Mo must be playing much better WITHOUT Redd or Redd must be absolutely terrible without Mo on the floor.

2. Kinda the same as the last one, but if Mo has a much higher +/-, he is clearly our #2 offensive player, so when Redd is off the floor Mo must be demanding the majority of that attention. So, with these "double or triple teams" Mo is cashing in with a high +/-, so he is clearly more clutch.

I guess we could add #3 for a counter argument.

3. Redd is on team USA.

paulpressey25 wrote:GAD needs to post the link to those old crunch time ratings....I know Redd was way up there.....if you do some google searches you find guys on other teams message boards posting stuff like this from April 2004.

"....Go on NBA.COM and look at the top leaders in the crunch time stats... DO YOU SEE KOBE BRYANT UP THERE?

SHANE BATTIER IS HIGHER THAN KOBE!!! But how can you not say that Kobe is the most clutch player in the league... I mean... MIKE REDD is #1 on that list. The NBA likes to use STATS to tell you who they think is clutch....."

But I can't find the season standings link from 2003 and 2004 though.

Redd was a clutch player under Karl and Porter. Redd's now screwed up, but so is the whole team......The question I'd ask is why was Redd so clutch in the 2003-04 season (his all-star year) and why so bad today? What things are different?

Interesting...

paulpressey25 wrote:GAD needs to post the link to those old crunch time ratings....I know Redd was way up there.....if you do some google searches you find guys on other teams message boards posting stuff like this from April 2004.

"....Go on NBA.COM and look at the top leaders in the crunch time stats... DO YOU SEE KOBE BRYANT UP THERE?

SHANE BATTIER IS HIGHER THAN KOBE!!! But how can you not say that Kobe is the most clutch player in the league... I mean... MIKE REDD is #1 on that list. The NBA likes to use STATS to tell you who they think is clutch....."

But I can't find the season standings link from 2003 and 2004 though.

Redd was a clutch player under Karl and Porter. Redd's now screwed up, but so is the whole team......The question I'd ask is why was Redd so clutch in the 2003-04 season (his all-star year) and why so bad today? What things are different?

A. He had a TJ Ford or the remnants of the big 3 to make plays for him.

B. He tries way too hard now to be a superstar taking contested shots and driving to the bucket...if he would just play within the offense he would be SO much better for the team late in the game.

CharlosVllnueva wrote:Mo has a +/- that is wayyy better than Redd's.

Are you referring specifically to the fourth quarter? I ask because, according to 82games.com, Mo's +/- is the worst on the team and much worse than Redd's.

That said, Redd has definitely fallen off in terms of clutch play in recent seasons. As Press noted, it wasn't long ago that Redd was statistically one of the best clutch shooters in the entire league. I doubt that's the case any longer.

They both are unclutch players. They both try to the hero in the final minutes and they both usually fail. Mo has hit more game winners then Redd has though.