I used Yahoo's stats and only counting those averaging 20 mpg or more. It doesn't seem to count guys like Amare and Duncan, even though they've played C for much of the year.
FGA
11.3 (5th/18 )
FG%
50.4% (14th/18 )
FTA
3.8 (T9th/18 )
FT%
57.4% (17th/18 )
REB
9.3 (11th/18 )
AST
2.4 (3rd/18 )
TO
2.0 (6th/18 )
BS
1.7 (T10th/18 )
In comparison to every other player on this roster, he's been getting a free pass for his play. Hell, despite the FGA/FG% rankings and the terrible FT%, many actually want to see him put the ball up more and feel that his lack of shots is a real problem with the offense.
He blocked a lot of shots early and was thus labeled a defensive stopper on the blocks. Can anyone provide statistical evidence of that? I haven't been seeing a lot of that lately, either.
Some Bogut stats in relation to position
Moderators: MickeyDavis, paulpressey25
Some Bogut stats in relation to position
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ReasonablySober
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I don't think he deserves to be ripped on a lot... But he is certainly still our 2nd or 3rd best player along with Mo and he also has some big holes in his game.
1. He still isn't a very good offensive player. He consistently misses easy shots around the basket and is lacking a solid post game. He is also a very poor jump shooter and FT shooter. He also isn't a great offensive rebounder and his passing ability (while still good) isn't nearly as good as it was said to be coming out of school.
That being said he has made dramatic improvements this season and I think he has the potential to be a solid post up option, but never a number 1 or 2 option on a successful team.
2. He is an average rebounder for his position, perhaps slightly above average. The tough thing about Bogut is finding a PF to fit next to him. With a Yi/CV you get the benefit of them being able to stretch the floor, but then you are always going to be a poor rebounding team because Bogut isn't a superior rebounder.
Then if you get a banger next to him that is a superior rebounder (Like Magloire), the problem becomes spacing offensively, but at least you are then a good rebounding team.
3. He has become a much better help defender... Certainly above average I'd say, but right now he is a pretty mediocre post defensive player.
4. He is still very inconsistent.
Like DrugBust said... He gets a free pass for some reason as opposed to our other players. I like what Bogut has done with his game this year and I would love to see him stay with the team...
I just don't ever see him being a 'franchise player' or a guy who can be a top 3 player on a championship level team.
I do think he is much improved and can still work on his game... I think he could sneak into an all-star game or two since the East is so weak at the C position.
1. He still isn't a very good offensive player. He consistently misses easy shots around the basket and is lacking a solid post game. He is also a very poor jump shooter and FT shooter. He also isn't a great offensive rebounder and his passing ability (while still good) isn't nearly as good as it was said to be coming out of school.
That being said he has made dramatic improvements this season and I think he has the potential to be a solid post up option, but never a number 1 or 2 option on a successful team.
2. He is an average rebounder for his position, perhaps slightly above average. The tough thing about Bogut is finding a PF to fit next to him. With a Yi/CV you get the benefit of them being able to stretch the floor, but then you are always going to be a poor rebounding team because Bogut isn't a superior rebounder.
Then if you get a banger next to him that is a superior rebounder (Like Magloire), the problem becomes spacing offensively, but at least you are then a good rebounding team.
3. He has become a much better help defender... Certainly above average I'd say, but right now he is a pretty mediocre post defensive player.
4. He is still very inconsistent.
Like DrugBust said... He gets a free pass for some reason as opposed to our other players. I like what Bogut has done with his game this year and I would love to see him stay with the team...
I just don't ever see him being a 'franchise player' or a guy who can be a top 3 player on a championship level team.
I do think he is much improved and can still work on his game... I think he could sneak into an all-star game or two since the East is so weak at the C position.
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DH34Phan
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I guess I am just upset at the fact we could have had 4-5 guys better than Bogut and Villanueva in the 2005 draft, but ended up with them.
I would much rather have Paul, Williams, Bynum, Granger, and Ellis than Villanueva. The first 3 of those guys hold true for Bogut.
Bogut is solid, but if he truly is on the level of Dwight, Amare, Bosh, aka franchise big men, we probably would have shipped out Mo and Redd already.
I would much rather have Paul, Williams, Bynum, Granger, and Ellis than Villanueva. The first 3 of those guys hold true for Bogut.
Bogut is solid, but if he truly is on the level of Dwight, Amare, Bosh, aka franchise big men, we probably would have shipped out Mo and Redd already.
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BuckFan25226
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The numbers are nothing new or surprising. But remember, DB, his numbers aren't all star like because he's not set up for wide open dunks and layups the entire game by our terrible back court.
"didnt you watch the game with the raptors?bucks is also a playoff team ,they have enough ability to find wins from dalas and utach,
blow jazzs bitches and mavericks bitches out !"
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blow jazzs bitches and mavericks bitches out !"
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BuckFan25226
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Fort Minor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
I'd like to join you in the world of make-believe, the place where an injury has no bearing on a player's performance.
So his hips been bothering him for 3 years?
"didnt you watch the game with the raptors?bucks is also a playoff team ,they have enough ability to find wins from dalas and utach,
blow jazzs bitches and mavericks bitches out !"
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blow jazzs bitches and mavericks bitches out !"
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carmelbrownqueen
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A lot of excuses have been made for Bogut since the day the Bucks drafted him.. and because he was the Number 1 pick some came out of the box with the loftiest expectations for this guy and I don't think he was ever going to live up to the Tim Duncan-esque labels heaped on his shoulders. There are just way too many holes in his game for him to be the player many on this board still believe he is capable of. He is a good complimentary piece but my fear is that he is always going to think of himself as the more than what he is... nice but still not necessarily a dominating player.
Honestly, I have said from the beginning that Bogut isn't a franchise player, and I still believe that.. I think he's a good complimentary piece but I don't think we should be building the team around him. Perhaps Yi will become the "franchise" player for us or we will draft someone else (get them via trade or whatever), but Bogut isn't and many would argue that neither is Michael Redd or Mo Williams a franchise talent.
Bogut has improved this year and he isn't sulking like last year so we can't be too disappointed in his performance, and numbers don't tell the whole story (the injury is huge for him) but even without it, I just have never seen the type of player some of you claim he is capable of being.
Honestly, I have said from the beginning that Bogut isn't a franchise player, and I still believe that.. I think he's a good complimentary piece but I don't think we should be building the team around him. Perhaps Yi will become the "franchise" player for us or we will draft someone else (get them via trade or whatever), but Bogut isn't and many would argue that neither is Michael Redd or Mo Williams a franchise talent.
Bogut has improved this year and he isn't sulking like last year so we can't be too disappointed in his performance, and numbers don't tell the whole story (the injury is huge for him) but even without it, I just have never seen the type of player some of you claim he is capable of being.
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BuckFan25226
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carmelbrownqueen wrote:A lot of excuses have been made for Bogut since the day the Bucks drafted him.. and because he was the Number 1 pick some came out of the box with the loftiest expectations for this guy and I don't think he was ever going to live up to the Tim Duncan-esque labels heaped on his shoulders.
Honestly, I have said from the beginning that Bogut isn't a franchise player, and I still believe that.. I think he's a good complimentary piece but I don't think we should be building the team around him. Perhaps Yi will become the "franchise" player for us, but Bogut isn't and many would argue that neither is Michael Redd or Mo Williams.
Bogut has improved this year and he isn't sulking like last year so we can't be too disappointed in his performance.
I agree with this 100%. Well said.
"didnt you watch the game with the raptors?bucks is also a playoff team ,they have enough ability to find wins from dalas and utach,
blow jazzs bitches and mavericks bitches out !"
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blow jazzs bitches and mavericks bitches out !"
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carmelbrownqueen
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He gets a pass because many believe everything is Michael Redd, Mo Williams, the Bucks organization, and coaching staffs fault..jerrod wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
i agree, but i'm with db in wondering why he gets a pass for so much of this stuff
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europa
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I'm curious about this free pass Bogut's getting. I haven't seen it. He gets criticized plenty in this forum - often excessively so.
Bogut isn't a terrific defender but he's by far the best defender on this team in my opinion and he's the only player among the top group who can make an impact on both ends of the court. Mo and Villanueva are putrid defenders, Redd isn't much better and Yi is pretty much worthless on both ends of the court right now.
I like the improvements Bogut has made to his offensive game. He's a much improved offensive player though he still needs work in that area. I've had zero issues with his attitude. He doesn't sulk and mope around like he used to so he's conquered that which is great to see. He's become a solid two-way player and I think he's become the team's most valuable player due to his defensive improvements.
Right now, he's the only one I really want to keep. He's the only one who's really shown he will play within the team concept consistently and he's one of the few who hasn't caused at least some problem of some kind in the locker room.
Bogut isn't a terrific defender but he's by far the best defender on this team in my opinion and he's the only player among the top group who can make an impact on both ends of the court. Mo and Villanueva are putrid defenders, Redd isn't much better and Yi is pretty much worthless on both ends of the court right now.
I like the improvements Bogut has made to his offensive game. He's a much improved offensive player though he still needs work in that area. I've had zero issues with his attitude. He doesn't sulk and mope around like he used to so he's conquered that which is great to see. He's become a solid two-way player and I think he's become the team's most valuable player due to his defensive improvements.
Right now, he's the only one I really want to keep. He's the only one who's really shown he will play within the team concept consistently and he's one of the few who hasn't caused at least some problem of some kind in the locker room.
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jerrod wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
i agree, but i'm with db in wondering why he gets a pass for so much of this stuff
I wouldn't call it a pass so much, but I would say it's more denial. He was our number one pick, everyone here including me was hoping for a dominant center who we could build around and be successful with for years to come. that 20/10/3 guy, a Tim Duncan type. But it didn't happen and it's not going to happen. It's only a matter of time before people realize that.
I love Bogut, he's probably my favorite player on the Bucks. I have no problem trying to sign him, keep him, and have him be apart of the Bucks long term. But like CBQ said, he would be just a piece, a 2nd(at best), 3rd or 4th option if you will on a contending team.
"didnt you watch the game with the raptors?bucks is also a playoff team ,they have enough ability to find wins from dalas and utach,
blow jazzs bitches and mavericks bitches out !"
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blow jazzs bitches and mavericks bitches out !"
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InsideOut
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He gets a pass because he is still in his 3rd year and getting better. He is scoring and rebounding a little better but most importantly he is now playing better D. Who else on this team has gotten better at playing D these past 2.5 seasons? And then when you then factor in he's been making fewer than 5 million a season you realize he isn't the anchor holding us back. Now if he was making over 14.5 million (headed toward 18 million) and didn't play a lick of D, everyone here would be screaming for him to be traded. I'm not saying it's fair or unfair but how much you make vs. what you do is the biggest factor in deciding if you get a free pass or not.
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I think people are still high off of Bogut's breakout month earlier this season to really notice how ineffective he has been. Add into that this whole hip thing and the lack of someone noticeably better at the position and there ya go.
ReddWing wrote:Being a fan of this team is tantamount to being in hell...There is no Christ that is coming to save us. Even if there was, we'd trade him for a 28 year old wing.
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europa
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BuckFan25226 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
I love Bogut, he's probably my favorite player on the Bucks. I have no problem trying to sign him, keep him, and have him be apart of the Bucks long term. But like CBQ said, he would be just a piece, a 2nd(at best), 3rd or 4th option if you will on a contending team.
I'd agree with this (though I think he can and will be better than a fourth option on a contending team). He's become the only player on this team I really want to keep but that doesn't mean I think he's going to be a superstar. I've never believed that. But I do think he can be a key part of a contending team. The improvements he's made this season on both ends of the court leave no question about that in my mind.
Nothing will not break me.