OT: Clarification for Kohl: THIS is a team you keep together

Kerb Hohl · Post #1 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 6:59 am

If anyone has been paying attention to Philly, they are starting to grow together quite nicely. Why, you ask? Something may be said about a few attitude issues from Iggy, but THEY HAVE GUYS THAT PLAY ON BOTH ENDS. This is the type of tear I would want to be on to disregard tank/team overhaul to make a playoff push.

Right now, they have been 10-3 in their last 13, and they have been doing it in style. At first you would say it is a bit misleading because most of it was done on their home floor but now they're getting it done on the road out west. Check out their margin of victory in that stretch:
Washington: 5
Miami: 17
LA Clippers: 21
Dallas: 8
Memphis: 14
NY: 40
@Miami: 5
@Phoenix: 5
@LA Clippers: 26

If you rewind that a few games you'll see maybe what sparked that streak, their 43 point win over the Bucks.

What's more, they lose nearly 40 million off the cap next season. They'll be hovering around $30 million right now in guaranteed contract money. Now, some of that will be going to an Iggy extension which I am assuming they will get done, and that will account for maybe $13-14 million and then going up the scale. They also have to bring back Louis Williams, maybe he signs a fairly short deal worth $6-7 million/year. After that, I don't see anyone they would want to re-sign that is expiring this season. I doubt they'll max out on anyone but they'll probably bring in another veteran to a shorter contract to rotate in the front court.

Andre Miller expires after next year...but would you look at that...Louis Williams will be probably in the perfect season to take over the reigns as their PG of choice, and if that isn't looking good...they can still probably bring back Miller.

Ugh...Herb, THIS is how we should build a team. I wouldn't mind hovering around .500 with a team that works hard on the defensive end and is improving through the season. Miller isn't extremely young but their other 2 main contributors in Iguodala and Dalembert are both pretty young. Oh, and they have Williams, Carney, Smith, and Young waiting in the wings.
:banghead:

ReddManBogieMan · Post #2 » by **ReddManBogieMan** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 7:59 am

Aaaahhhhhh... ok

They are hot right now, I don't know what else there is that really can be commented on about it.

Kerb Hohl · Post #3 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 8:03 am

ReddManBogieMan wrote::roll:
Aaaahhhhhh... ok

They are hot right now, I don't know what else there is that really can be commented on about it.

I am not saying they are world-beaters. They have a nice core as compared to ours that actually sells out and plays defense. They also don't have a bunch of garbage signed for 2-3 years.

ReddManBogieMan · Post #4 » by **ReddManBogieMan** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 8:10 am

Good for them.

Kerb Hohl · Post #5 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 8:40 am

ReddManBogieMan wrote:Good for them.

Sorry, do you want me to post more fantasy basketball threads or the 3420938420937429380th trade Redd post?

Sorry, just trying to point out how another team that was a bottom-feeder and beacon of mediocrity the last few years along with us has built in a much more efficient manner, even though it looked like it was going to get a lot worse for them. They are quite similar to the Bucks in their makeup that they have a PG, wing, and C as their key components that are all relatively young, although on each team, 1 of them is a bit older(Redd/Miller). Dalembert is 26 and Iggy is 24. Mo is 25 and Bogut is 23.

This team not only beats the teams it is supposed to, they are IMPROVING throughout the season. This is a core that you can keep together, unlike the Bucks.

I am just trying to compare/contrast how a team should rebuild and a team that has put itself in a much better situation than us.

Aaaahhhhhh... ok

They are hot right now, I don't know what else there is that really can be commented on about it.

Yes, they are. Portland was hot earlier this year and although they are younger everyone was gushing about them. Ok, they've got Oden waiting in the wings and Roy is 23 instead of 24 like Iguodala.

Now Portland has cooled off but everyone still loves their future. I just put a post up about another team that has moved in the right direction...they are filled up with just a few less promising youngsters than Portland and a decent amount of cap flexibility in the coming years.

Philly had a very similar record to us only a few weeks ago before the trade deadline, and now they have started to mesh. That is why I titled this post the way I did, considering one could have argued both teams were in similar shape not too long ago. So, THIS team that will probably finish with 38 wins as opposed to the Bucks 32 is a core you can keep together, and the Bucks is one that should be blown up and knowing Kohl...minimal changes are coming.

ReddManBogieMan · Post #6 » by **ReddManBogieMan** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 8:57 am

That is because Philly blew it up LAST year when they Traded AI and cut C. Webb. Why would they blow it up again?

I do see the point you are trying to make here.

ReddManBogieMan · Post #7 » by **ReddManBogieMan** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 9:01 am

Sixers
T-wolves
Heat
Grizzlies
Nets

are all in the same boat, because they released their star player ( AI, KG,Shaq, Gasol, Kidd) and are building for the future.

They "Blew it up", look at where they are all at now.

Kerb Hohl · Post #8 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 9:09 am

ReddManBogieMan wrote:That is because Philly blew it up LAST year when they Traded AI and cut C. Webb. Why would they blow it up again?

I do see the point you are trying to make here.

It was a topic about how a young team that just blew it up last year is getting hot and is making progress.

The fact that they blew it up supports my argument more. I am arguing that this team realized that they weren't getting it done with their current makeup. They have gone with defensive stalwarts and young guys. Their offensive stud(Iguodala) also exerts a ton of effort on the defensive end. Andre Miller plays good defense and distributes better than Mo. Dalembert is a bit older than Bogut and his offensive game isn't totally that of Bogut's but he is a much better shot blocker and a solid defender inside.

If Philly was terrible this season they easily could have blown it up even more. Iguodala is at the end of his contract and Miller is an expiring next year. That is some nice trade bait in Miller and Iguodala probably would be dealt away in some fashion if for some reason this team had problems developing.

Once again, many people in here believe that Kohl will be inclined to keep Redd/Mo here if we finish out the season with a decent finish, maybe missing the playoffs by a game or two.

Again, like I said, even though they "blew it up" last year, they have a very similar core to ours in age and stature, but that core plays a more complete game and they have done a much better job of filling out the roster of their roster, especially in terms of $$$.

This started out as a thread to point out a team that is getting hot with an undertone of a comparison to their build and the Bucks. Thanks to you being a jagoff, it went the other way.

Kerb Hohl · Post #9 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 9:13 am

ReddManBogieMan wrote:Sixers
T-wolves
Heat
Grizzlies
Nets

are all in the same boat, because they released their star player ( AI, KG,Shaq, Gasol, Kidd) and are building for the future.

They "Blew it up", look at where they are all at now.

Are you an idiot? The reason I spoke of the Sixers is that they have developed a good core and future and are winning games right now.

The Nets have Carter so they are still in crap mode. If the Nets get hot with Harris to close the season and deal Carter in the offseason then someone will make a thread about them then.

The Grizzlies are not anywhere near the Sixers. It has taken the Grizzlies 59 games to get 14 wins...the Sixers have won 12 of 17 games.

The Heat suck for other reasons...anyone would have done that Shaq deal given his age and their record...and haven't been extremely successful after it yet. The Heat have 11 wins.

The T-Wolves don't have a core that has won 10/13 games or 12/17. The Wolves have 12 total wins.

Who have I talked about in this thread? Portland and Philadelphia who have 31 and 28 wins, respectively.

The 76ers are also similar to the Bucks in many ways including record in previous seasons and the fact that they have a similar core 3 to the Bucks.

ReddManBogieMan · Post #10 » by **ReddManBogieMan** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 9:22 am

So what, they won games. They are the Hot Topic of the moment because they won some games.

My point is they are in the same boat talent wise with those other teams.

Why don't we model ourselves after the mighty 76ers. Good idea (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Kerb Hohl · Post #11 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 9:23 am

Look man...on top of that, even if they "blew it up" last year they still have 3 pieces that contribute mostly to their team. Let's compare:

Miller/Mo: Miller is much older and may not be as flashy but he plays a much more complete game.

Iggy/Redd: Iguodala is still improving whereas Redd is nearing his peak. Iguodala plays defense.

Dalembert/Bogut: Not too far off in age here either, Dalembert being a better blocker than Bogut will ever be and Bogut being a bit better on the offensive end.

On top of that, they have put together a much better supporting cast in Green, Evans, Carney, and Williams in terms of cap-friendliness.

Contractually, there isn't a huge difference either. They are a bit different in the fact that we will have to lock up Bogut soon instead of them locking up Iguodala soon. Miller's deal ends soon but you can combine him with Louis Williams who would assume the PG duties when Miller is done.

Kerb Hohl · Post #12 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 9:25 am

ReddManBogieMan wrote:So what, they won games. They are the Hot Topic of the moment because they won some games.

My point is they are in the same boat talent wise with those other teams.

Why don't we model ourselves after the mighty 76ers. Good idea (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Dude, this thread was originally made to point out that they are doing well as a younger squad.

Same boat talent-wise with those teams you mentioned? :rofl:

Yeah, if you consider talent in Bucks terms. Sure, you could look at R Jefferson and Iggy being similar...A Jefferson and Iggy maybe? Wade and Iggy...Gay and Iggy...The Sixers have a good mold of players around them though and young guys on their way up.

But the fact is, the Nets have Carter so they are still screwed in some respects and the Heat are a different story.

The Grizzlies and Timberwolves may have "talent" but I'm sorry they are just a little behind the Sixers.

th87 · Post #13 » by **th87** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 12:49 pm

CharlosVllnueva wrote:
ReddManBogieMan wrote:Sixers
T-wolves
Heat
Grizzlies
Nets

are all in the same boat, because they released their star player ( AI, KG,Shaq, Gasol, Kidd) and are building for the future.

They "Blew it up", look at where they are all at now.

Are you an idiot? The reason I spoke of the Sixers is that they have developed a good core and future and are winning games right now.

The Nets have Carter so they are still in crap mode. If the Nets get hot with Harris to close the season and deal Carter in the offseason then someone will make a thread about them then.

The Grizzlies are not anywhere near the Sixers. It has taken the Grizzlies 59 games to get 14 wins...the Sixers have won 12 of 17 games.

The Heat suck for other reasons...anyone would have done that Shaq deal given his age and their record...and haven't been extremely successful after it yet. The Heat have 11 wins.

The T-Wolves don't have a core that has won 10/13 games or 12/17. The Wolves have 12 total wins.

Who have I talked about in this thread? Portland and Philadelphia who have 31 and 28 wins, respectively.

The 76ers are also similar to the Bucks in many ways including record in previous seasons and the fact that they have a similar core 3 to the Bucks.

Yes, he is. This guy's on Redd's nuts, and is happy with mediocrity.

I totally agree with what you're saying. The Sixers got rid of dead weight and found players that play SMART and on both ends. In the end, it probably won't mean much unless they get a superstar, but it's a start. And much better than the garbage we're putting out there.

Post #14 » by **paulpressey25** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 1:55 pm

The answer in Philly is simple.....Andre Miller......As Kenny Jay said to Burt Reynolds in Boogie Nights......."He's a real PG, Jack"

Sigra · Post #15 » by **Sigra** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 2:44 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:The answer in Philly is simple.....Andre Miller......As Kenny Jay said to Burt Reynolds in Boogie Nights......."He's a real PG, Jack"

Yup

PaBuck · Post #16 » by **PaBuck** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 3:22 pm

Being from Pa I see a lot of Philly games. The key to the 76ers rise is indeed Andre Miller. His point guard play this season almost rivals that of Jason Kidd. To get to the beef of this thread, the 76ers got there with NO HIGH draft picks with AI being the highest at #9, I believe. Just solid picks at relatively poor positions! Take Miller out and replace him with Lou Williams and you lose a lot. I have been really impressed with the play of Miller. He is just an awesome floor general who totally grasps the game and knows the when and how of things. He can do it all.

msiris · Post #17 » by **msiris** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 3:45 pm

Please get back too me when Philly is above .500.

PaBuck · Post #18 » by **PaBuck** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 3:58 pm

msiris wrote:Please get back too me when Philly is above .500.

Not so fast. Philly got off to a slow start. Reggie Evans was new to the team. Thaddeus Young was a raw rookie. Under Miller these guys are making major contributions. Miller is working them all in and making Dalembert et al better. This team is a far cry from the one that started the season. Be patient and just watch. My one wish is that the Bucks went after Andre and dropped Mo because he would have significantly impacted our team as he did Philly.

Rockmaninoff · Post #19 » by **Rockmaninoff** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 4:12 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:The answer in Philly is simple.....Andre Miller......As Kenny Jay said to Burt Reynolds in Boogie Nights......."He's a real PG, Jack"

Dig the Boogie Nights quote, Pressey. Great film.

Besides that, I agree with your statement.

I'm curious about something. Do you remember the several times I made this same point (of the thread) about the 76ers being a sleeper playoff team due to Miller, on the JSonline, at the end of last year and periodically this year?

At one point I had a big argument with 'The King' over Andre Miller trade rumors, my position being that he was the reason for their success, and they would be stupid to trade him. And, that they wouldn't trade him.

I had a couple different posts exhalting how much I liked the make up of their roster. I felt that with the addition of a Villanueva or even a Randolph they could be a top team in the East. I predicted that they would finish 9th (but only because I homered the Bucks into the 8th slot) in the East.

The reason I'm asking this, is that like everyone, I have my insecure moments. I consider myself somewhat of a frontrunner, and yet when I see others make the same comments that I made earlier, I rarely look for credit.

When I read these boards, I remember everything, and try to never repeat or claim an idea as my own. Now, I'm not saying that everyone should quote their source on a statement that is an agreement, because there are a lot of generalities and opinions on here. But, nobody believed that Philadelphia was a quality team. No one in the national media, no one on the forums.

I'm just wondering if you remember me saying this. Sometimes I question whether any of this is worthwhile.

OT: Thanks for the memories, Brett.

No thanks for being a miser last year, Ted Thompson... :nonono:

msiris · Post #20 » by **msiris** » Tue Mar 4, 2008 4:20 pm

PaBuck wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Not so fast. Philly got off to a slow start. Reggie Evans was new to the team. Thaddeus Young was a raw rookie. Under Miller these guys are making major contributions. Miller is working them all in and making Dalembert et al better. This team is a far cry from the one that started the season. Be pateient and just watch. My one wish is that the Bucks went after Andre and dropped Mo because he would have significantly impacted our team as he did Philly.

Hey I am not say Philly is a bad team. They are a better team than the Bucks. I am mocking the poster more than anything. Keeping this team together? How much more time do we need? Philly has made some moves. Picked up draft choices. We have done nothing to compare ourselves to Philly. Still Philly is under .500, but they are playing better.