The official Danilo Gallinari in 2008 thread!

[fam3381]

Rubio is a fascinating prospect...I remember first hearing about him a couple years ago after he made a mockery of the Euro U16s...check out the wiki description of it:

In August of 2006 Rubio led the Spanish national team to the FIBA Europe U16 Championship. During the tournament (excluding the final game), Rubio achieved two triple-doubles and one quadruple-double. In the 110-106 double overtime finale victory over Russia, Rubio scored 51 points (including a three-point buzzer-beater shot from mid court to force the first overtime), grabbed 24 rebounds, made 12 assists, and stole the ball seven times

[midranger]

That Rubio kid has one of the slowest releases I've ever seen.

[AussieBuck]

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Uh...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Hanson

[skones]

If Batum impresses at workouts and such, I'm down for taking him. He's smart and he can play defense. Two things which we DIRELY need on this team as it stands right now. If you're going to bitch and moan about his "international commitments" you have problems. Tony Parker has played 75 or more games every year he's been in the league and he also happens to be from France. Lumping anyone from overseas in one category because of Yi and Bogut just doesn't make sense.

As far as Gallinari goes, he's a good player, I don't think you can argue with that. He's young and obviously has quite a bit of room to grow. This team needs a change in mentality though and I'm just not sure he's the right direction to go. At this point it's not like he's head and shoulders above other guys in that range either.

Despite all of that, the more and more I think about, I'm gradually falling in love with the idea of trading down. For instance we land at 8 and a team like New Jersey can acquire another late first, I'd seriously consider flipping 8 for New Jersey's first, their first from the Mavs, and whichever pick they acquire. You might be able to nab some quality guys that fit what we're looking for.

[Wise1]

This team needs a defensive impact player at ANY position even moreso than a small forward. The guy in the range that we're most likely to select our pick that will make the most impact on the defensive side of the ball would probably be Thabeet. A 7-3 guy with athleticism that happens to be a top flight shot blocker is just the type of player the Bucks need to add to the roster. Sure he's not a super, but if you can't land one you have to take the best role player available.

What possible arguement could one make that this Gallinari would help this team more than Thabeet? Gallinari's a smart guy? Well, what good is that when you play with a bunch of dummies (see Kukoc@Bucks). A shot blocking defender in the Dikembe Motumbo mold would help erase some of the mistakes that dummies tend to make.

[fam3381]

FWIW, Mayo apparently said yesterday he intends to come back for his sophomore year at USC. He wouldn't be the first guy to change his mind, but that's what he's saying for now.

I think he was probably going to be out of our reach if we were in the 8th spot anyway, but obviously we'd rather have as many guys as possible declare.

[paulpressey25]

One thing that might add something to this discussion would be to take all the number one picks over the last five years. Divide up that pool by foreign versus US. Then cross check those two lists by a list of the top 75 players in the NBA from say a Sporting News ranking.

It would be interesting to see the percentage of first round picks that are foreign and then see the percentage of those picks that today reside in the top 75.

From there you can do all sorts of analysis as to how many foreign players are in the top 25, 50, 75. Then expand it to the second round, etc.

My gut tells me that if you did that you'd find that if you were trying to acquire a top 50 talent, the odds would suggest you should select a US player because percentage wise their chance of making top 50 is greater when accounting for the lower percentage of foreign players drafted.

But I'm also could be terribly wrong with that statement. I'd want to see the data. Has anyone done this and released it publicly?

[midranger]

As we talk about National Team commitments, Hedo credits his with his improvement.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi ... ig_season/

[fam3381]

As we talk about National Team commitments, Hedo credits his with his improvement.

Was just about to post that...

If you have two guys who are indistinguishable aside from one being a Euro who will have national team commitments and the other being an American who won't, then maybe you can use that as a tie-breaker. But the idea of not taking the guy you think is the best player just because he might play in some summer tournaments for his country seems like a major over-reaction.

I have reservations about both Gallinari and Batum, but it's hard to make any definitive statements about them until we know more about them and the guys who will also be available. As a fan I'm not rooting for us to lose games so we can get those guys specifically, but if one of them is the best player available when we draft, then take him.

I think to be honest the hesitancy most people show towards foreign prospects is simply because we are unfamiliar with them. It's easy to say don't draft them because we don't know much about them anyway. And for Bucks fans the Yi situation probably makes us overly concerned, even though the Chinese national team is different from others (as has been pointed out).

[Ruzious]

Batum would be a much better pick for the Bucks than Galinari, because he has the potential to be a great defender. Looking at highlights, Batum is a shorter quicker version of Tayshawn Prince. But he's just turned 19, and he's skinny, so there's going to be a learning curve, and some patience will be required.

Bucks also have to consider Thabeet. Yes, he's also extremely raw, but you just don't find defensive bigs like him. His potential is big enough that you take him even with Bogut on the roster, and either figure a way to play them together or trade Bogut.

[Wise1]

Batum would be a much better pick for the Bucks than Galinari, because he has the potential to be a great defender. Looking at highlights, Batum is a shorter quicker version of Tayshawn Prince. But he's just turned 19, and he's skinny, so there's going to be a learning curve, and some patience will be required.

Bucks also have to consider Thabeet. Yes, he's also extremely raw, but you just don't find defensive bigs like him. His potential is big enough that you take him even with Bogut on the roster, and either figure a way to play them together or trade Bogut.

I think that its a pretty good bet that Thabeet will have a greater defensive impact in the NBA than either Batum or Galinari. Look at Cleveland. As great as Lebron is, that team has had recent success due to the defensive personnel around James (Z, Varejao). Now they've added Ben Wallace and Joe Smith to the mix. Solid moves by Cleveland.

Bogut is our lone ranger as a front court defender. He needs help. I wouldn't dare take any of the small forwards in this draft not named Beasley, for THIS team, over a bonafied defensive playmaker like Thebeet. Unlike with Batum, we wouldn't have to wait for "potential" defense. I'd say Thabeet will ALWAYS be a better defender than Batum.

[Ruzious]

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I think that its a pretty good bet that Thabeet will have a greater defensive impact in the NBA than either Batum or Galinari. Look at Cleveland. As great as Lebron is, that team has had recent success due to the defensive personnel around James (Z, Varejao). Now they've added Ben Wallace and Joe Smith to the mix. Solid moves by Cleveland.

Bogut is our lone ranger as a front court defender. He needs help. I wouldn't dare take any of the small forwards in this draft not named Beasley, for THIS team, over a bonafied defensive playmaker like Thebeet. Unlike with Batum, we wouldn't have to wait for "potential" defense. I'd say Thabeet will ALWAYS be a better defender than Batum.

There'd be no doubt about it - if it weren't for that pesky defensive 3 second rule - which does favor quicker bigs. But I concur - Thabeet should be a force defensively from day 1 and has defensive poy potential, imo. However, I do think that Yi has excellent defensive potential at the PF spot.

[whatthe_buck!?]

I think that its a pretty good bet that Thabeet will have a greater defensive impact in the NBA than either Batum or Galinari. Look at Cleveland. As great as Lebron is, that team has had recent success due to the defensive personnel around James (Z, Varejao). Now they've added Ben Wallace and Joe Smith to the mix. Solid moves by Cleveland.

Bogut is our lone ranger as a front court defender. He needs help. I wouldn't dare take any of the small forwards in this draft not named Beasley, for THIS team, over a bonafied defensive playmaker like Thebeet. Unlike with Batum, we wouldn't have to wait for "potential" defense. I'd say Thabeet will ALWAYS be a better defender than Batum.

Just because Thabeet -if he realizes his potential- will almost indisputably have a larger impact defensively on a game to game basis (because with his size and skill set he will be able to provide better help defense than even the best defender at SF could ever hope to give), that in my mind does not neccessarily make him the best pick the Bucks could make in the 8-10 range in this draft to improve themselves defensively. The reason for this? One word: Lebron.

Let's think strategically for a second here. For at least the next three years, and almost undoubtedly the next 15 years (unless LJ makes the extremely unlikely decision to bolt to the Western Conference), the only way a team will be able to advance out of the East is if they have some kind of answer for King James in a seven game series. Unless the Bucks want to rely on another team elimanating Lebron's team for the next decade and a half, they are going to need to aquire a player who can slow Lebron down for stretches (lets face it, slowing him down is the best you can hope for, Lebron will NOT be able to be shut down by anyone for the next decade). If you agree with me so far, the question becomes- How do you slow down a basketball player who is six foot eight, 240 pounds, strong as a bull and quicker than your average point guard?

Having a shot-blocking presence at the center position isn't going to make much of a difference because Lebron is still able to finish his drives with authority even while simultaneously being tasered, pepper sprayed, and hit across his forearms with a two by four, so the end result of having a guy taking a swipe at the ball every time Lebron drives to the hoop is going to be that player giving LJ a few and-1 opportunities before fouling out. Putting a smaller player (6'6'' or shorter) on Lebron who has the footspeed to stay in front of him some of the time (I add that qualification because I realize that no one is qiuck enough to stay in front of Lebron all of the time) doesn't accomplish much either, because that type of player isn't going to be able to bother Lebron's jump shot very much, and that player won't be able to stop Lebron from going to the hole in crunch time anyway because he has to play Lebron tight all the way out past the three point line to prevent Lebron from feasting on uncontested jumpers.

With all that said, I feel like the prototype defender to use on Lebron is someone who is super athletic at 6'8'' to 6'10'' and who is not only tall but also has extremely long arms which will enable that player to play off Lebron a bit but still bother him when he pulls up quickly for a jumpshot. More importantly, a super tall and super long SF is also going to be able to shut down more passing lanes to the open man when his teammates come to double Lebron after he dribble-penetrates. This is where a player such as Batum comes into the picture. At his current weight he is useless, but he is only 19 and adding 10-15 pounds of muscle in the next year or two should be relatively easy; not to mention that Batum is going to be in his prime athletically (22-26 yrs old) when Lebron is in his absolute prime (26- 30 yrs old).

Listen, I'm not saying that Batum is a sure thing (far from it), or that he is the only guy we could draft with our first rounder that makes sense for this team, but I know that if I were the next GM of the Bucks (or the GM of any Eastern Conference team for that matter) I would be willing to spend my first rounder EVERY SINGLE YEAR on a SF with the potential to develop into a guy who has the ability to guard Lebron with some effectiveness until I got someone that realized that potential.

[Newz]

This guy isn't athletic and he isn't a good defensive player.

He doesn't have a superstar upside... He is a good shooter and passer.

Does this team need quality players who can shoot/pass and do a bit of everything? Sure. But we need all-star type players a lot more than that and I don't think that this guy is that type of player.

He is one of the last guys I would draft if I was the Bucks... I'd be swinging for the fences personally.

[Wise1]

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Just because Thabeet -if he realizes his potential- will almost indisputably have a larger impact defensively on a game to game basis (because with his size and skill set he will be able to provide better help defense than even the best defender at SF could ever hope to give), that in my mind does not neccessarily make him the best pick the Bucks could make in the 8-10 range in this draft to improve themselves defensively. The reason for this? One word: Lebron.

Let's think strategically for a second here. For at least the next three years, and almost undoubtedly the next 15 years (unless LJ makes the extremely unlikely decision to bolt to the Western Conference), the only way a team will be able to advance out of the East is if they have some kind of answer for King James in a seven game series. Unless the Bucks want to rely on another team elimanating Lebron's team for the next decade and a half, they are going to need to aquire a player who can slow Lebron down for stretches (lets face it, slowing him down is the best you can hope for, Lebron will NOT be able to be shut down by anyone for the next decade). If you agree with me so far, the question becomes- How do you slow down a basketball player who is six foot eight, 240 pounds, strong as a bull and quicker than your average point guard?

Having a shot-blocking presence at the center position isn't going to make much of a difference because Lebron is still able to finish his drives with authority even while simultaneously being tasered, pepper sprayed, and hit across his forearms with a two by four, so the end result of having a guy taking a swipe at the ball every time Lebron drives to the hoop is going to be that player giving LJ a few and-1 opportunities before fouling out. Putting a smaller player (6'6'' or shorter) on Lebron who has the footspeed to stay in front of him some of the time (I add that qualification because I realize that no one is qiuck enough to stay in front of Lebron all of the time) doesn't accomplish much either, because that type of player isn't going to be able to bother Lebron's jump shot very much, and that player won't be able to stop Lebron from going to the hole in crunch time anyway because he has to play Lebron tight all the way out past the three point line to prevent Lebron from feasting on uncontested jumpers.

With all that said, I feel like the prototype defender to use on Lebron is someone who is super athletic at 6'8'' to 6'10'' and who is not only tall but also has extremely long arms which will enable that player to play off Lebron a bit but still bother him when he pulls up quickly for a jumpshot. More importantly, a super tall and super long SF is also going to be able to shut down more passing lanes to the open man when his teammates come to double Lebron after he dribble-penetrates. This is where a player such as Batum comes into the picture. At his current weight he is useless, but he is only 19 and adding 10-15 pounds of muscle in the next year or two should be relatively easy; not to mention that Batum is going to be in his prime athletically (22-26 yrs old) when Lebron is in his absolute prime (26- 30 yrs old).

Listen, I'm not saying that Batum is a sure thing (far from it), or that he is the only guy we could draft with our first rounder that makes sense for this team, but I know that if I were the next GM of the Bucks (or the GM of any Eastern Conference team for that matter) I would be willing to spend my first rounder EVERY SINGLE YEAR on a SF with the potential to develop into a guy who has the ability to guard Lebron with some effectiveness until I got someone that realized that potential.

WTB,

If a GM spent every pick trying to draft a small forward to contain Lebron, he'd be spinning his wheels. There's not a single small forward in the league today that can knock James off of 27, 7, 7. Kobe Bryant, probably the best man defender in the game on the wing, can't stop him. No one can. It takes a solid team defense to even begin to contain this guy. Even then, the effort is usually futile (see Lebron 29 consecutive 4th qtr/ot points against the Pistons in the playoffs). Solid team defense, imo, will always start with an intimidator / shot changer in the middle.

Anyhow, Lebron is just one guy and to make the playoffs the Bucks have to defend against the league. Right now, basically anyone can get to the paint and score at the rim against the Bucks. Bogut is a solid anchor when motivated, but again, he needs help.

Shore up the interior defense first (Thabeet), and then get rid of the plodding/useless dummies on the defensive perimeter and then the team will start to win games again.

I take the 7-3 guy who may have the most defensive upside in the draft at picks 7-12. Small forwards will be there every year.

[whatthe_buck!?]

Maybe the GM who would employ that strategy would be spinning his wheels. I am certainly well aware of the consistency of Lebron's past playoff performances, some of which border on the superhuman. I agree that having Thabeet could have a big impact on this team defensively (and I do like him as a prospect and wouldn't rule out drafting him with our lottery pick), and I definitely agree with you that by far the best way to contain a player like Lebron is with great team defense as opposed to one great defender at a certain position. I would even tend to agree that the biggest step a team can make towards improving overall team defense with one draft pick is to take a frontcourt player who is, as you put it, an intimidator / shot changer. The thing for me is that I am not totally convinced that the most dramatic difference the Bucks could make toward improving themselves defensively against the best player in the conference (with one lottery pick) is by drafting that interior shotblocker, mostly because I feel like once Lebron gets by his man it's over, regardless of who is manning the middle. And although I would never argue that the objective of drafting a SF should be to get a guy who can shut down Lebron (that being an impossible task), I do think that having a man-to-man defender who can kinda sorta a little stay in front of Lebron and throw him off his game by bothering him with length when he tries to shoot from the perimeter might do more to slow him down than having an intimidator inside. I will say that I wouldn't be unhappy if we drafted Thabeet, though.

[whatthe_buck!?]

Edit: Nevermind.

[LUKE23]

Yeah forget all these soft European players. I mean I've never seen this Giseppe guy play but I know none of these silly foreigners are worth a dam. It's not like any of them have ever amounted to anything in the NBA. I'd rather stick with an all American guy like Brian Butch or Greg Stiemsma.

Yeah, because that is a legitimate analogy.

Look, I realize there are good players in Europe. I also keep up on draft history pretty well. The % of European players that actually pan out to be as good as their draft billing is EXTREMELY low. The reasons are several, but primarily because even management of NBA teams cannot know how good these players actually are.

First, there is less access to their games. Second, the competition is questionable. Granted, there are very tough leagues in Europe, but there are also leagues that have questionable competition. Third, and while you can call me a stereotyper if you want, generally European players biggest problem is being physically ready for the physical play/length of season in the NBA.

It's not like there is a Dirk in this draft. Any Euro player we take would be question mark.

You're in love with the Euro game, I am not as far as translating it to the NBA level. I've heard hype for so many players over the years and only a handful of them have really backed up their billing.

[Nowak008]

This guy isn't athletic and he isn't a good defensive player.

He doesn't have a superstar upside... He is a good shooter and passer.

Does this team need quality players who can shoot/pass and do a bit of everything? Sure. But we need all-star type players a lot more than that and I don't think that this guy is that type of player.

He is one of the last guys I would draft if I was the Bucks... I'd be swinging for the fences personally.

Why is that? Is it solely because he isn't a great athlete? I just want some guys that are really good at basketball.

Defense is a question, sure. However, Redd and Mo might not be on the team next season. I don't want to discount this guy because we have a terrible defending back court and we are looking to get a guy to fix that.

[livestrong4ever]

pssssssh we will be trading down the pick if we were smart.