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The Bucks' 40th Anniversary team was announced today. The results leave me embarrassed to be a Bucks' fan. The top two vote getters are no surprise:

1. Kareem
2. Oscar

But then comes the first embarrassing vote:

3. Ray Allen
4. Sidney Moncrief

How in God's name does Ray Allen get voted ahead of Sidney Moncrief? I realize that many of the voters likely didn't see Sid play but they probably didn't see Oscar play either and he got plenty of votes (as he should have). Ray Allen was a nice player but he couldn't carry Sid's jock.

The next embarrassing vote?

5. Michael Redd.

Again, Redd's a good player but fifth all time? Ahead of Marques Johnson, Bob Lanier, Terry Cummings and Bobby Dandridge? That should never happen.

I realize this stuff is all just fluff but it is pretty sad when two of the Top 5 vote getters have no business being ranked ahead of players who contributed much more to the team in my opinion.

Oh, and if there ever is an All Under-Rated Bucks team Bobby Dandridge and Marques Johnson would be the poster children. Complete lack of respect for Dandridge's role in one championship team and two Finals teams and for what Marques did in helping turn the Bucks from a loser into a consistent elite winner.

The rest of the Top 20 players are:

Vin Baker, Junior Bridgeman, Quinn Buckner, Sam Cassell, Terry Cummings, Bob Dandridge, Marques Johnson, Bob Lanier, Jon McGlocklin, Ricky Pierce, Paul Pressey, Alvin Robertson, Glenn Robinson, Jack Sikma and Brian Winters.

I think the top 5 are pretty accurate, but I think a player should have to play in Milwaukee for the vast majority of their career to be considered a "Buck". I understand that Ray Allen was part of an Eastern Conference Finals team, but do you think when Ray retires he's going to say that his favorite place to play was in Milwaukee?

sheeple

jeremyd236 wrote:I think the top 5 are pretty accurate, but I think a player should have to play in Milwaukee for the vast majority of their career to be considered a "Buck". I understand that Ray Allen was part of an Eastern Conference Finals team, but do you think when Ray retires he's going to say that his favorite place to play was in Milwaukee?

I think putting Ray ahead of the players I listed is a joke. All of those players contributed more to better teams than Ray did. Same with Redd. Both Ray and Redd are good players but neither of them have the track record of success players like Marques, Lanier, Cummings and Dandridge did.

Yes I realize this is all a popularity contest but it still irks me and as a Bucks fan what really irks me is how Dandridge and Marques don't get the respect they deserve for the impacts they had.

Besides the first two spots that list is a joke.

I like both Redd and Ray as players. Ray might deserve to be in the top 5, but Redd isn't even close at this point and time.

Winning counts and Redd the only thing Redd has done has been to get to the first round of the playoffs and lose.

Europa...you're just getting older.....over half the people watching Bucks games these days never saw Sid or Marques play.....Dandridge? Isn't that what Head and Shoulders is for?

In any event, interesting they chose not to reveal the vote totals. None of them based on what I see on the website. So we have no clue how many people actually voted in this thing or who got the most or least votes. Classic.......

Personally I'd lock this thread only to spite Herb Kohl and his marketing machine trying to throw red-herrings out on the road from the glorious past to take our minds off the mess things are right now.

I agree about Marques Johnson in particular, for whatever reason, he never seems to get the credit he deserves for the time he spent in Milwaukee.

LukePliska wrote:Besides the first two spots that list is a joke.

I like both Redd and Ray as players. Ray might deserve to be in the top 5, but Redd isn't even close at this point and time.

Winning counts and Redd the only thing Redd has done has been to get to the first round of the playoffs and lose.

Other than one season that's all Ray ever did too which is why I don't like putting either of them in the Top 5 ahead of players who contributed much more to better teams for a longer period of time.

And yea Press I am getting older and I realize that's why Ray gets votes over Sid and why the other players I listed got shafted too. But as a Bucks fan we haven't had a glorious list of success so I don't think it should be that hard to correctly recognize the truly great players this team has had over the years.

jeremyd236 wrote:I think the top 5 are pretty accurate...

I'm guessing you haven't seen half the guys on the list play.

If Redd is a top 5 all time player in your franchise's 40 year history then you must have had a pathetic history.

The numbers for Marques Johnson as a Buck PT/RB/AS/FG%

19.5/10.6/2.4 .522%

25.6/7.6/3.0 .550%

21.7/7.4/3.5 .544%

20.3/6.8/4.6 .552%

16.5/6.1/3.6 .533%

21.4/7.0/4.5 .509%

20.7/6.5/4.3 .502%


Marques put those numbers up on good teams. He scored very efficiently, rebounded well, passed, and defended. It bothers me how little respect the Bucks franchise shows him.

InsideOut wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I'm guessing you haven't seen half the guys on the list play.

If Redd is a top 5 all time player in your franchise's 40 year history then you must have had a pathetic history.

Agreed.

El Duderino wrote:The numbers for Marques Johnson as a Buck PT/RB/AS/FG%

19.5/10.6/2.4 .522%

25.6/7.6/3.0 .550%

21.7/7.4/3.5 .544%

20.3/6.8/4.6 .552%

16.5/6.1/3.6 .533%

21.4/7.0/4.5 .509%

20.7/6.5/4.3 .502%


Marques put those numbers up on good teams. He scored very efficiently, rebounded well, passed, and defended. It bothers me how little respect the Bucks franchise shows him.

Agreed. I think a lot of it is due to the drug problems he had at the end of his time with the Bucks but by all accounts he's overcome all that and I think it's time to acknowledge the significant role he played in the team's rise in the post-Kareem era. He really was a terrific player. It's a joke he hasn't had his number retired yet.

I thought this was a vote on who were your favorite Bucks not who was better than who...using that criteria I actually voted Ray Allen as my all time favorite Buck.

InsideOut wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I'm guessing you haven't seen half the guys on the list play.

If Redd is a top 5 all time player in your franchise's 40 year history then you must have had a pathetic history.

See I think I'm judging the guys differently than most of you. I'm not judging it by who had the most success as a Buck. I'm voting for the "greatest" Bucks. Guys who played like their whole careers here and gave it all for the city.

Not guys like Allen who have played on 3 NBA teams. It's funny some of you think Allen should make it but not Redd. If you take one out, you have to take them both out. Sure Redd has only made it to the 1st round, but that's all Allen did without Big Dog and Cassell. You give Redd 2 players of that caliber and you'll get the same results as Ray.

I mean, Allen wasn't even a guy his teammates liked. He couldn't get along with anyone. Not a greatest Buck in my opinion.

Ray was a good player but I think he'd definitely fall into an All-Overrated Bucks Team if one was created. He had one glorious season but other than that he didn't lead the team to considerable success and his leadership skills were every bit as suspect as Redd's have proven to be. I think both deserve consideration for Top 10 all-time on this team but Top 5? No way.

The Bucks have had two legitimate eras of success:

1. The Kareem Era (Kareem, Oscar, Dandridge and McGlocklin were the top players).

2. The Nellie Era (Sid, Marques, Lanier, Cummings, Winters, Bridgeman, Pressey and Sikma were the key players).

That's it. They had one great season with Karl and some OK ones with Del but really there have been only two legitimate eras of success in this team's history. If you're going to pick the best players, I think they should come from those two eras first and foremost in most instances.

By the way, another Buck to put on the all-underrated team would be Quinn Buckner. A good player, strong team leader and impact player on both ends of the court. I'd put Greg Smith on the underrated list too.

europa wrote:Ray was a good player but I think he'd definitely fall into an All-Overrated Bucks Team if one was created. He had one glorious season but other than that he didn't lead the team to considerable success and his leadership skills were every bit as suspect as Redd's have proven to be. I think both deserve consideration for Top 10 all-time on this team but Top 5? No way.

The Bucks have had two legitimate eras of success:

1. The Kareem Era (Kareem, Oscar, Dandridge and McGlocklin were the top players).

2. The Nellie Era (Sid, Marques, Lanier, Cummings, Winters, Bridgeman, Pressey and Sikma were the key players).

That's it. They had one great season with Karl and some OK ones with Del but really there have been only two legitimate eras of success in this team's history.

Since the Kareem trade happened in June, 1975 and Nellie took over in October, 1976, you can actually split the Bucks into 2 eras: Before Kohl and After Kohl. Nellie lasted 2 years with Kohl before Nelson "resigned".

When Nellie left, the Bucks had 13 seasons of 49 or more wins (in 19 years). Since then, the Bucks have had 2 seasons of 49 or more wins (in 20 years).

paulpressey25 wrote:
In any event, interesting they chose not to reveal the vote totals. None of them based on what I see on the website. So we have no clue how many people actually voted in this thing or who got the most or least votes. Classic.......

Although there aren't totals listed, the top 5 (Kareem, Oscar, Allen, Sid, Redd) were in order.

Interesting that, when voting, you had to list your 20 Bucks in order, but when they counted the votes, they just counted how many ballots you were listed on. What's up with that?

They invited all 20 back for an upcoming game. I hope that Marques blows it off and disrespects the Bucks just like they've disrespected him.

I'll admit I'm curious to see if Alvin Robertson will show up.

Like the all-star team, some will vote for who they think deserves it and some will vote in their favorite players.

Polls like this are always slanted toward current players. You can't expect people to vote for players they have never seen.

I don't even know the point of a 40th anniversary team. What's so special about 40? They also did 35 and 30. I guess they need some kind of a theme every year and this was as good as any. I'm really looking forward to the 45th anniversary season. Maybe at the 100th they can have Elton John perform.

Please no inappropriate comments/photos. Thank you. MD