Trading Our Pick

[raferfenix]

I'm thinking more and more that we'll end up trading our lottery pick this year----especially if we end up with a Larry Brown/Jeff Van Gundy/Rick Carlisle kind of coach.

The last thing our team needs is another project player that does not have superstar potential. We already are developing Yi in that regard, and Ersan falls into that position to a lesser extent as well. I also am thinking that unless we are really sold on a PG, we won't end up taking a young guard considering how long it usually takes them to develop. Especially since Sessions is showing great flashes, I bet we'd prefer to go with a veteran starting pg rather than another young guy.

Furthermore, we are (hopefully) looking to radically change our team, and that pick with another assett (like Mo/Redd/CV/Simmons/Bell) would really raise the caliber of return we coudl get. If OJ Mayo or another player with superstar potential or incredible defensive ability falls to us I would think differently, but looking over the draft boards I'm far from convinced that will happen.

Our team is in desperate need of veteran leadership if the young players we have already are to develop properly, and adding another young player we are not completely sold on just seems like the entirely opposite direction that we should go right now to me.

[InsideOut]

Can you give an example of the kind of vet you think the Bucks need and could get for Mo or CV and the 7th pick? My guess we'd have to throw the 7th pick in to just get someone to take Simmons off our hands.

[raferfenix]

Simmons' contract ends year after next, so it's not as bad as it seems, and we certainly don't need to drop it so bad where we'd include the 7 pick to do it (maybe CV theoretically though).

I dont' think we'd add a big salary player without dumping one though, but that could end up being Redd/Gadz/Mo (or all of the above )

[raferfenix]

The ideal trade for me would be if we could snag Marion from the Suns. I'm starting ot think that is increasingly possible, especially with this report from a Miami moderator:

Riley was on with Sid this morning and said that he expects quick turnaround, specifically mentioning the high draft pick this year, the MLE player this year, and that they will be able to add a max contract after next year. To me, that sounds like Marion will either opt-in for this one year, or be traded during the season.

If that's the case, i can see Miami being very amenable to this kind of trade:

Bucks trade: Mo Williams (after his BYC expires), Desmond Mason, Charlie Villanueva, Bucks '08 first round pick

Heat trade: Shawn Marion


I can see that turning into a 3 way deal as I doubt Miami will have that much interest in CV (especially if they end up with Beasley). The Bucks very well might need something else in return to do this deal, but I'm a big enough Marion fan where I for sure do it if he'd agree to a reasonable extension.

Unless we could swap Simmons for Mason in this deal I bet it'd be followed by a Michael Redd trade where we cut some cap, but I'd have absolutley no problem with that since I think Marion would be a perfect fit for our front court.

[James1980]

I'd be open to a Redd plus pick for McGrady type of a deal.

[Baddy Chuck]

The ideal trade for me would be if we could snag Marion from the Suns. I'm starting ot think that is increasingly possible, especially with this report from a Miami moderator:

Riley was on with Sid this morning and said that he expects quick turnaround, specifically mentioning the high draft pick this year, the MLE player this year, and that they will be able to add a max contract after next year. To me, that sounds like Marion will either opt-in for this one year, or be traded during the season.

If that's the case, i can see Miami being very amenable to this kind of trade:

Bucks trade: Mo Williams (after his BYC expires), Desmond Mason, Charlie Villanueva, Bucks '08 first round pick

Heat trade: Shawn Marion


I can see that turning into a 3 way deal as I doubt Miami will have that much interest in CV (especially if they end up with Beasley). The Bucks very well might need something else in return to do this deal, but I'm a big enough Marion fan where I for sure do it if he'd agree to a reasonable extension.

Unless we could swap Simmons for Mason in this deal I bet it'd be followed by a Michael Redd trade where we cut some cap, but I'd have absolutley no problem with that since I think Marion would be a perfect fit for our front court.

Honestly I think that is overpaying for Marion only for the fact if we cant resign him. I honestly dont think he;s worth a max contract and thats what he wants. So basically itd be giving up CV/Mo/1st for 1 year of Marion.

[raferfenix]

-= original quote snipped =-


Honestly I think that is overpaying for Marion only for the fact if we cant resign him. I honestly dont think he;s worth a max contract and thats what he wants. So basically itd be giving up CV/Mo/1st for 1 year of Marion.

I agree that if we aren't sure Marion would resign for a reasonable extension it wouldn't be worth it. If we could get him for an average of $15-17 million a year I thnk it'd be worth it though.

[paulpressey25]

I don't want to pay Marion $15mm a year.....unless it is a short liability deal of say 3-years/$45mm. I also think we'd have problems with Marion's contract and the luxury tax unless we also send Bobby out with Mo.

Mo/Bobby/7th pick should be enough to get Marion here IMO. I wouldn't pay anything more.

And I think that same deal might pull in Brand if you added CV to it.

Again the problem though with both guys is that Yi's camp is going to s#$% about it, since you are bringing in a starting PF.

[fam3381]

We'd all prefer to start winning sooner rather than later, but aside from Redd all of our key assets are under 25. While there might not be any tantalizing prospects in the mid-lottery, I'm not sure any trade we make is going to magically turn us around.

If I were the GM I would be looking to add picks rather than get rid of them. Even without CV, we're looking at possibly being close to the luxury tax in 09/10 assuming Bogut gets more than $10 million on his extension. The Simmons deal gives us relief the next year.

I know GAD has previously stated the Bucks don't always think that far in advance, and I'm not sure if Herb will tolerate a complete rebuild. But it's worth thinking about.

[xTitan]

Overpaying for a small forward is incredibly stupid and the last time I checked Steve Nash is not walking through that door with Marion. The Bucks need a star or someone bordering on superstardom at the guard spot, overpaying for a sf who will leave after next year seems very stupid to me.

[raferfenix]

I disagree with the notion that the Bucks should wait for a superstar to wlak through the door. I think what we shoudl do is create an environment where we can develop our young players properly, as well as make basketball in milwaukee fun to watch again to help make it less likely the team leaves.

Adding Marion to the mix woudl give us a HUGE boost defensively, but even more importantly it would change the lazy attitude that has pervaded here for the last decade or so. I don't care if his offense never returns to where it was with Steve Nash, I only care that he can still make an all-defensive team (and in so doing make our team a defensive midned one) as well as get Bogut and Yi's careers set on the right track.

If that happens, maybe so many fans wouldn't be as desperate to be an old Magic or Timberwolves style one super-star first round out of the playoffs team.

[xTitan]

I disagree with the notion that the Bucks should wait for a superstar to wlak through the door. I think what we shoudl do is create an environment where we can develop our young players properly, as well as make basketball in milwaukee fun to watch again to help make it less likely the team leaves.

Adding Marion to the mix woudl give us a HUGE boost defensively, but even more importantly it would change the lazy attitude that has pervaded here for the last decade or so. I don't care if his offense never returns to where it was with Steve Nash, I only care that he can still make an all-defensive team (and in so doing make our team a defensive midned one) as well as get Bogut and Yi's careers set on the right track.

If that happens, maybe so many fans wouldn't be as desperate to be an old Magic or Timberwolves style one super-star first round out of the playoffs team.

Marion would be here for 1 year, what does that do towards building a team that can contend? I agree with you that the Bucks need some vet help, but I would use Mo Williams and CV instead of trading this pick, I want a new kid with talent to learn from some vets, not some of the young players currently on the roster.

[paulpressey25]

-=I would use Mo Williams and CV instead of trading this pick,.

I guess I agree with you here upon reflection.....I'd offer them CV/Mo and I think Gadz is needed to balance out salaries (or they could have Simmons). Then keep our pick. I was always assuming we'd only trade for Marion if we had an extension worked out....but if we didn't include the pick, I'd gamble on one-year of Marion for Mo/CV/Gadz.

FAM, I think most of us could get on board with a rebuild.....but not Herb. It will be playoffs or bust next year IMO.....you can just feel it. Herb's now been royally embarrassed.....he won't want to deal with another two rebuilding years.

[fam3381]

FAM, I think most of us could get on board with a rebuild.....but not Herb. It will be playoffs or bust next year IMO.....you can just feel it. Herb's now been royally embarrassed.....he won't want to deal with another two rebuilding years.

So it'll be bust then, eh?

As much as Herb wants to win, he turned down deals involving our pick last summer too, right? Though to be fair the Bucks thought they could get an "impact" player at the 6 spot, which might not necessarily be the case this year.

Anyway, I don't really care if Herb calls it a rebuild or not, but it just seems odd that a first year GM (who is working on a longer time horizon) would ship out his lottery pick for a veteran that only makes you marginally better and might leave after a year. Doesn't pass the smell test to me.

[smauss]

-= original quote snipped =-

FAM, I think most of us could get on board with a rebuild.....but not Herb. It will be playoffs or bust next year IMO.....you can just feel it. Herb's now been royally embarrassed.....he won't want to deal with another two rebuilding years.

PP, I couldn't agree more with this. While many of us want an over-haul I sense a couple of minor tweaks from the Senator in both team and organization.

[paulpressey25]

-= but it just seems odd that a first year GM (who is working on a longer time horizon) would ship out his lottery pick for a veteran that only makes you marginally better and might leave after a year. Doesn't pass the smell test to me.

Again, you and I wouldn't necessarily do this. But this is the 20-year history of the Bucks. One-year plans to make the playoffs. I'd argue that last year Kohl was being told Yi was not only the next Dirk but also a money machine. And I'd also argue that Kohl figured that he would make the playoffs this past year, even with drafting Yi.

When you look at the GM's or coaches we'd get, most would appear to be either Herb puppets or say a "win now" coach guy like Larry Brown. With both of those scenarios, it screams a short-term focus rather than a 3-year plan focus.

[bucksbrewerspackersfan]

I would keep the pick. We are in no position for a win now stance. By getting a lot of young talent even if they are a project or not that if they start to devlop a good game and we choose to go with a win now in a few years we could get a more impact player. Right now it is a waiting game get some talent over time. No sense in rushing things and only getting a 8th seed and get knocked out and then want to rebuild again later. If we rebuild let's do it if not then win now and going by our tradeable assets it is better to wait.

[heynow]

(1) Why do you people want Larry Brown here.
This is a franchise with major problems and a couple 42-40 seasons will not fix that long term.

(2) Marion is a limited player. Unless you bring Steve Nash along with him you are tying up more money into an exterior player who isn't an impact player.

[heynow]

-= original quote snipped =-



Again, you and I wouldn't necessarily do this. But this is the 20-year history of the Bucks. One-year plans to make the playoffs. I'd argue that last year Kohl was being told Yi was not only the next Dirk but also a money machine. And I'd also argue that Kohl figured that he would make the playoffs this past year, even with drafting Yi.

When you look at the GM's or coaches we'd get, most would appear to be either Herb puppets or say a "win now" coach guy like Larry Brown. With both of those scenarios, it screams a short-term focus rather than a 3-year plan focus.

You would have to be an idiot to believe that Yi was going to come into the NBA and in his first year be Dirk.
How stupid and ignorant about basketball would you have to be to believe that.
I know Kohl's basketball knowledge is thin but even he cannot be that dumb.

[Beware The Beef]

i wanna package it with cv and mo for a s&t for emeka