Why does everyone here hate Redd?
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 6:32 pm
Please explain, I'm baffled.
and
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Why does everyone here hate Redd?
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=778115
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Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 6:35 pm
and
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 6:46 pm
Because Max players are supposed to help you win more than one playoff game in three seasons.
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 6:53 pm
For me its not the money its the selfishness. Anybody would take that money if it was offered to them.
Its just the little things like his refusal to put up a half court shot at the end of any quarter because it will hurt his shooting %. His constant forcing of bad shots. His stat padding. Worst example of that was the night when Yi was approaching his first career NBA 30 point game...yet Redd refused to pass him the ball...even though Yi was shooting worlds better than anyone that night and the crowd was chanting his name and wanted him to get to 30. It was a classic example of not being a team player. There are tons of other examples that people can bring up but that night put me over the edge.
Its just the little things like his refusal to put up a half court shot at the end of any quarter because it will hurt his shooting %. His constant forcing of bad shots. His stat padding. Worst example of that was the night when Yi was approaching his first career NBA 30 point game...yet Redd refused to pass him the ball...even though Yi was shooting worlds better than anyone that night and the crowd was chanting his name and wanted him to get to 30. It was a classic example of not being a team player. There are tons of other examples that people can bring up but that night put me over the edge.
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 6:55 pm
No one "hates" Redd.
There are a large contingent of folks who believe that a small market team, which in the past few years have made many player personnel decisions based on money, simply can't afford to pay a limited player like Redd 18 million dollars.
Plus, he's typified everything that's been wrong with this team for the past 20 years. Soft, dumb, no defense, selfish, score-only, wing player who brings zero intangibles or leadership. The Bucks in a nut shell for 20 years.
Plus, he's pretty much lost every close game in the 4th quarter for us this year. Truly dreadful, and probably the worst clutch/4th quarter performer in the NBA this season. But it was fun watching him never allow Yi or Bogut to ever reach 30 points.
There are a large contingent of folks who believe that a small market team, which in the past few years have made many player personnel decisions based on money, simply can't afford to pay a limited player like Redd 18 million dollars.
Plus, he's typified everything that's been wrong with this team for the past 20 years. Soft, dumb, no defense, selfish, score-only, wing player who brings zero intangibles or leadership. The Bucks in a nut shell for 20 years.
Plus, he's pretty much lost every close game in the 4th quarter for us this year. Truly dreadful, and probably the worst clutch/4th quarter performer in the NBA this season. But it was fun watching him never allow Yi or Bogut to ever reach 30 points.
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 6:57 pm
midranger wrote:No one "hates" Redd.
There are a large contingent of folks who believe that a small market team, which in the past few years have made many player personnel decisions based on money, simply can't afford to pay a limited player like Redd 18 million dollars.
Plus, he's typified everything that's been wrong with this team for the past 20 years. Soft, dumb, no defense, selfish, score-only, wing player who brings zero intangibles or leadership. The Bucks in a nut shell for 20 years.
Plus, he's pretty much lost every close game in the 4th quarter for us this year. Truly dreadful, and probably the worst clutch/4th quarter performer in the NBA this season. But it was fun watching him never allow Yi or Bogut to ever reach 30 points.
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 7:04 pm
Since he signed for the max, as a SG...
1). Has been a below average rebounder.
2). Has been below average at creating for others (assists).
3). Has been below average as a defender.
4). Has been a terrible leader.
5). Has been a huge choker (especially this year).
6). The Bucks have stunk since he became the go to guy.
7). He doesn't make others around him better.
8. Below average basketball IQ
Last season if you took the top 20 scorers in the league he'd have finished last in assists and 2nd last in rebounding to Iverson. All the guy does is shoot.
He does one thing above average and that is score. However, he should score a lot because he plays on a bad team and gets to take most of the shots. You could plug in a lot of guys making 1/2 what Redd makes and they also could score over 20 a game. And I don't think anyone hates him. We just realize he is way overpaid. This isn
1). Has been a below average rebounder.
2). Has been below average at creating for others (assists).
3). Has been below average as a defender.
4). Has been a terrible leader.
5). Has been a huge choker (especially this year).
6). The Bucks have stunk since he became the go to guy.
7). He doesn't make others around him better.
8. Below average basketball IQ
Last season if you took the top 20 scorers in the league he'd have finished last in assists and 2nd last in rebounding to Iverson. All the guy does is shoot.
He does one thing above average and that is score. However, he should score a lot because he plays on a bad team and gets to take most of the shots. You could plug in a lot of guys making 1/2 what Redd makes and they also could score over 20 a game. And I don't think anyone hates him. We just realize he is way overpaid. This isn
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 7:07 pm
Because he gets paid more every game than I make in a year, but doesn't play as hard as I do in pickup games at the park.
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 7:14 pm
Also, to only win one playoff game in the pathetic East the last 3 seasons is terrible.
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 7:27 pm
Pretty much everything Mid said.
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 7:59 pm
InsideOut wrote:Since he signed for the max, as a SG...
1). Has been a below average rebounder.
2). Has been below average at creating for others (assists).
3). Has been below average as a defender.
4). Has been a terrible leader.
5). Has been a huge choker (especially this year).
6). The Bucks have stunk since he became the go to guy.
7). He doesn't make others around him better.
8. Below average basketball IQ
Last season if you took the top 20 scorers in the league he'd have finished last in assists and 2nd last in rebounding to Iverson. All the guy does is shoot.
He does one thing above average and that is score. However, he should score a lot because he plays on a bad team and gets to take most of the shots. You could plug in a lot of guys making 1/2 what Redd makes and they also could score over 20 a game. And I don't think anyone hates him. We just realize he is way overpaid. This isn
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 7:59 pm
I think it's simple...
More than the fact that he doesn't play D, I don't like Redd because he avoids making the easy pass on 2 - 1 breaks.
Instead he takes it in himself...a leader makes the pass and makes his teammates better.
Redd can stay, but MO HAS TO GO!!!
More than the fact that he doesn't play D, I don't like Redd because he avoids making the easy pass on 2 - 1 breaks.
Instead he takes it in himself...a leader makes the pass and makes his teammates better.
Redd can stay, but MO HAS TO GO!!!
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 8:26 pm
What gives you the right to have an opinion about his defensive abilities? I thought only respected coaches get to have opinions about that particular subject.Jeremyd236 wrote:You guys blow his defensive problems way out of proportion. He's an average defender in this league and if he didn't have to expel so much energy on the offensive end, he'd be better at that too.
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 8:30 pm
I give you credit for constantly supporting a player that so many want traded. It's not easy to stand with the 5% and against the other 95%. Seriously, it must be tough having your favorite player be maybe the most despised player on the team. I can't imagine what it must be like having to watch your favorite player choke game after game in the final 5 minutes and then to have to read about it here every day. That stretch where we won more without Redd than with him must have been extra tough.
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 8:45 pm
adamcz wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
What gives you the right to have an opinion about his defensive abilities? I thought only respected coaches get to have opinions about that particular subject.
Then once again you would only betray your lack of reading comprehension, if you truly believe anyone has said that. It is the presumption that your uninformed opinion is better than a professional coach's that is quite bizarre. It would be like me claiming my opinion on trumpet playing is better than a trumpet teacher, to put it more in an areas in which you have some expertise. Are you always so unaware of distinctions?
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 8:53 pm
InsideOut wrote:I give you credit for constantly supporting a player that so many want traded. It's not easy to stand with the 5% and against the other 95%. Seriously, it must be tough having your favorite player be maybe the most despised player on the team. I can't imagine what it must be like having to watch your favorite player choke game after game in the final 5 minutes and then to have to read about it here every day. That stretch where we won more without Redd than with him must have been extra tough.
I never said Redd is my favorite player. But it is absolutely disgusting and I'm not going to sit here and let your emotions get carried away. Your hatred for Redd is unbelievable and it doesn't make any sense.
If other teams saw this board, they'd seriously just laugh. I'm not sticking up for Redd, I'm just trying to keep everyone here realistic. Saying that his 4 rebounds and 4 assists per game are below average is unrealistic.
He makes the 22nd most money in the NBA. Get over it.
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 8:53 pm
jeremyd236 wrote:Andrew Bogut was a #1 overall pick (like Dwight Howard, Lebron James, etc) and will definitely be making Redd dollars (if not more). It took him 3 years to actually look like an NBA player. But does anybody on this board hate him? Hell no.
Just to correct you on that, a couple of people here have said they actually hate Bogut. Begrudgingly accept he's becoming a good player, but they do hate him.
But one would expect that if a person actually hates someone they've never met then they've got some emotional issues that go far beyond their views on that individual.
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 8:57 pm
jeremyd236 wrote:See this is what is fundamentally wrong with the logic on this board. Your reasons for hating Redd would be justified if they were true, but they're wrong.
Below average rebounder, below average passer, below average defender? What average are you talking about? The Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, LeBron average? I mean seriously, what the hell do you think is average?
4.4 Rebounds per game is below average for a SG? 4 Assists per game is below average for the 8th leading scorer in the league? You guys blow his defensive problems way out of proportion. He's an average defender in this league and if he didn't have to expel so much energy on the offensive end, he'd be better at that too. You have to understand he's in the top 20 in the NBA in terms of minutes per game, and if you take last year away he's been healthy the majority of his career. He plays a lot of games and a ton of minutes.
And then there's the people on here saying he doesn't deserve the 18 or 20 million dollars he makes a year. Gte your **** facts right. He signed a 91 million dollar contract over 6 years. Use your calculator if you have to, but that's an average of just over 15 million dollars per year. That's not that bad considering this franchise has never signed a free agent better than Michael Redd.
Other teams over the league probably read our board's hatred for Redd and just laugh at how stupid it is. What would you guys have rather had Harris do, let Redd go? Where the hell would that money that we'd be saving go towards? A better free agent?
News flash: WE CANT SIGN GOOD FREE AGENTS. I'd rather pay a top 5 SG the money he deserves then let him go and pretend we did the right thing because we've got more money to spend on Bobby Simmons or Dan Gadzuric.
Andrew Bogut was a #1 overall pick (like Dwight Howard, Lebron James, etc) and will definitely be making Redd dollars (if not more). It took him 3 years to actually look like an NBA player. But does anybody on this board hate him? Hell no.
Dwayne Wade and Kobe Bryant can't "lead" a team unless they have 3 or 4 All-stars around them. Why the hell does everyone expect Redd to when he's surrounded by a bunch of scrubs?
Excellent points.
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 8:59 pm
Dags wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Just to correct you on that, a couple of people here have said they actually hate Bogut. Begrudgingly accept he's becoming a good player, but they do hate him.
But one would expect that if a person actually hates someone they've never met then they've got some emotional issues that go far beyond their views on that individual.
I completely agree. People here just get carried away and go too far. They hate people they don't even know.
Redd is not my favorite player, I just try to keep people level headed. I do the same thing for any player on the team. And when people try to make trade scenarios that land us a Sessions/Mayo starting backcourt, I tell them that that's another lottery round season.
The last few games have proven that Redd and Bogut are good players that can coexist on this team. If anything, Mo should be the one people dislike. When he doesn't play, our team is better. A 2nd round rookie makes his team better than Mo Williams.
Posted: Sat Apr 5, 2008 9:34 pm
The poster to which I replied says (when it suits him) that we cannot have opinions about topics that professional coaches have been quoted on.Epicurus wrote:Then once again you would only betray your lack of reading comprehension, if you truly believe anyone has said that.
No, the bizarre presumption is to believe that every word coming out of a professional coach's mouth is to be taken as an irrefutable fact, as opposed to what is oftentimes just political correctness, and what is occasionally a true error of judgment.It is the presumption that your uninformed opinion is better than a professional coach's that is quite bizarre.
I am, but there are also truths perceivable even to a layman like myself, which I am able to verify through statistics.It would be like me claiming my opinion on trumpet playing is better than a trumpet teacher, to put it more in an areas in which you have some expertise. Are you always so unaware of distinctions?
You may not know everything I know about trumpet players, but if you put your mind to it, you could figure out which ones can play faster than others, or which ones are more skilled at playing ballads. Especially if objective data were analyzed and available to the degree that basketball data is.
If you were to ask me publicly what I think of a colleague, I would say nice things, no matter my true opinion. Would that mean that laymen on some theoretical message board couldn't call BS?
How is this not the case with a coach saying that Redd is a good defender? We've all seen him play hundreds of times and know that this isn't the case.