Quality defense at PG is harder to come by

[Nowak008]

There is a lot of talk about how we need better defense at the PG position. I would agree. Mo Williams is a bad defender, sure. Even though Mo is a bad defender our D has been worse with him out.

The problem is that it is hard to come by quality defense that can actually play the position and facilitate a good offense. Most of players that can do that are some of the best players in the league. Obviously getting one of those players would be great, but they are few and far between.

Billups
D. Williams
Paul
Kidd
Miller
?

The rest of the good defensive PG's in the league (the few around) are caretaker PG's who aren't asked to do much in running the offense.
You can get by with a caretaker PG if you have a Lebron/Kobe/Wade type player on our team. We don't have that.

The defensive problems on this team run deep, its not just the PG's fault. Stopping penetration is a problem, but its not the only one. We need to force more TO's and limit offensive boards as well.

Quality defense at PG is harder to come by and while I'm not forgiving it, I think it should be considered.

What do you guys think?

(Please no Derrick Rose comments. Yes he would be the solution and would be the tits if we got him.)

[paul]

I think Miller would be a super fit on this team.

[ReasonablySober]

I think Miller would be a super fit on this team.

You're not the only one to make this mistake, but Andre Miller is 32 years old and the Bucks are a long ways away from competing for a conference title.

Unless you think he'd make a great bench coach, I'm not sure I understand how Miller would be a super fit for this team.

[Nowak008]

I think Miller would be a super fit on this team.

Ok? I see no reason Phily would deal him. If we some how got him away it will be because we crazily overpaid for him.

[Nowak008]

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You're not the only one to make this mistake, but Andre Miller is 32 years old and the Bucks are a long ways away from competing for a conference title.

Unless you think he'd make a great bench coach, I'm not sure I understand how Miller would be a super fit for this team.

Yea I don't get it either.

[paul]

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You're not the only one to make this mistake, but Andre Miller is 32 years old and the Bucks are a long ways away from competing for a conference title.

Unless you think he'd make a great bench coach, I'm not sure I understand how Miller would be a super fit for this team.

I think it's because we have different philosophies on the way this team should move forward. Getting Miller would be by no means the end to who I would want on this team, merely the first of several moves.

Saying he's just turned 32 is neither here nor there. He's not declining, in fact the exact opposite he's having one of the best years of his career, and certainly the best in his last 6 or so. He's an excellent creator and facilitator on offense, plays solid D, is a big body for a PG and has a high bball IQ. He is imo the exact type of PG we need.

Bogut imo can be a force in this league next season, put a pg like Miller beside him and it will help him even further. Add a banging 4 like a Maxiell type and some athleticism and defense at the 3 and this team is a ton better instantly. I know we've had this argument before where you don't think that can be done, but hey we can all dream

EDIT : sp

[ReasonablySober]

Saying he's just turned 32 is neither here nor there. He's not declining, in fact the exact opposite he's having one of the best years of his career, and certainly the best in his last 6 or so. He's an excellent creator and facilitator on offense, plays solid D, is a big body for a PG and has a high bball IQ. He is imo the exact type of PG we need.

He's 32. Right now he's doing nothing for the Sixers except costing them valuable draft slots.

[bigkurty]

As much as I hate how overhyped Devin Harris gets on this board, he is a good defender and would be a good fit on our team. Although is it just me or does Sessions game remind you a lot of Harris when Harris was a first or second year player?

[paul]

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He's 32. Right now he's doing nothing for the Sixers except costing them valuable draft slots.

huh? He's one of the major reasons the sixers are over .500. It's not like they are just going to scrape into the playoffs, they are 1 game out of 5th and 3 games out of 4th, I know the east sucks but he's doing a very very good job for them. Man what we wouldn't give to have a winning record.....

[El Duderino]

It's not just defense that's hard to come by with point guards. I got into a debate on a different forum with a guy who said if he was starting a team from scratch that he'd take Bogut over both Chris Paul and Deron Williams because high quality big men were much harder to come by.

Then i pointed out just how few high quality point guards are in the NBA right now.

Nash
Paul
Williams
Billups
Davis

Those are the clear top five IMO and then there is

Parker
Miller
Kidd He's also old and won't be around much longer

There are other point guards in the NBA who are solid/decent, but aren't anything special players.

A high quality PG is IMO the rarest commodity in the game.

Now there are guys like Wade/Kobe/TMac who handle the ball alot and are part PG/part small forward or shooting guard. I guess Brandon Roy kinda fits in that type also.

Some may want to include Iverson and Arenas as point guards, but i don't see them as anything more than shooting guards who handle the ball alot and can pass decently.

[Nowak008]

Miller is going to be looking for a new deal next year and our only trade bate is Yi and our pick. No thanks.


This thread isn't really about specific players to go after either.

[REDDzone]

I don't even need a great defender at PG, I'd gladly take average defensive talent.

I just think PG is the most important defensive position in at least some ways, and arguably the team's worst defense should not come from the one.

[Nowak008]

It's not just defense that's hard to come by with point guards. I got into a debate on a different forum with a guy who said if he was starting a team from scratch that he'd take Bogut over both Chris Paul and Deron Williams because high quality big men were much harder to come by.

Then i pointed out just how few high quality point guards are in the NBA right now.

Nash
Paul
Williams
Billups
Davis

Those are the clear top five IMO and then there is

Parker
Miller
Kidd He's also old and won't be around much longer

There are other point guards in the NBA who are solid/decent, but aren't anything special players.

A high quality PG is IMO the rarest commodity in the game.

Now there are guys like Wade/Kobe/TMac who handle the ball alot and are part PG/part small forward or shooting guard. I guess Brandon Roy kinda fits in that type also.

Some may want to include Iverson and Arenas as point guards, but i don't see them as anything more than shooting guards who handle the ball alot and can pass decently.

Good post.

Even after the top 10 there is a ton of mediocrity. Good PG's are hard to come by and good defending ones are almost impossible to come by.

[Nowak008]

I don't even need a great defender at PG, I'd gladly take average defensive talent.

I just think PG is the most important defensive position in at least some ways, and arguably the team's worst defense should not come from the one.

Tony Parker disagrees.

[REDDzone]

Tony Parker gets a bad rap for being a sieve early in his career, he isn't good on defense, but he isn't Mo/Ivey bad either.

And if the Bucks had a swingman defender like Bowen, and the best defensive anchor in the past decade like Duncan in the paint, trust me, I wouldn't be bitching about our sieve PG rotation.

[paul]

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Good post.

Even after the top 10 there is a ton of mediocrity. Good PG's are hard to come by and good defending ones are almost impossible to come by.

Yep. Average PG's are easy to come by, they are a dime a dozen, very good ones on both sides of the ball however are very difficult to find. It's part of the reason I think it's important to work hard to develop a young guy like Sessions. He's not a starter at this stage and shouldn't be next season, but he does appear to have good fundamentals on both sides of the ball and reasonably good insticts. Part of the reason I would love a guy like a Miller here is because he can help develop Sessions for the next couple of years before Ramon is ready to start. The same argument I gave for looking at Kidd.
It's also part of the reason I feel that Mo might be a little difficult to move for quality, there are many PG's of Mo's quality around the league, a lot of teams already have one.

[Nowak008]

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Yep. Average PG's are easy to come by, they are a dime a dozen, very good ones on both sides of the ball however are very difficult to find. It's part of the reason I think it's important to work hard to develop a young guy like Sessions. He's not a starter at this stage and shouldn't be next season, but he does appear to have good fundamentals on both sides of the ball and reasonably good insticts. Part of the reason I would love a guy like a Miller here is because he can help develop Sessions for the next couple of years before Ramon is ready to start. The same argument I gave for looking at Kidd.
It's also part of the reason I feel that Mo might be a little difficult to move for quality, there are many PG's of Mo's quality around the league, a lot of teams already have one.

Isn't that what a coach is for? Besides that if we want Miller around for a while we are going to have to give him a big deal, something that I don't want to be giving a 33 year old.

[El Duderino]

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It's also part of the reason I feel that Mo might be a little difficult to move for quality, there are many PG's of Mo's quality around the league, a lot of teams already have one.

We won't get that much for Mo when we try to trade him. I see the odds being very high of Mo being traded for another player with a similar salary, just exchanging players where fits might be better for both teams.

I'd rather get an expiring and say a late first rounder, but i doubt that happens.

[paul]

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Isn't that what a coach is for? Besides that if we want Miller around for a while we are going to have to give him a big deal, something that I don't want to be giving a 33 year old.

One would think a coach is for that, but I think the Bucks have disproven that theory over the past few years. There's no doubt in my mind a young guy benefits from constantly practising against an better version of himself, but maybe that's just me. Also a last point on Miller, he turned 32 like two weeks ago, don't think he's in the grave just yet.

[th87]

After the Dallas Kidd experiment fails, it looks like he'll be on the move. For mentoring purposes, it couldn't hurt bringing him in to tutor Sessions.

Develop Bogut and Yi, tank another year, and be poised to make moves in 2009-2010.