RealGM

Dahner62084 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




Remember, the Pistons came out of nowhere when they won it

Not really. The Pistons had back-to-back 50-win seasons under Carlisle before Brown took over and were widely regarded as a legit contender in the East. They lacked one big piece to get them over the hump and that piece turned out to be Rasheed Wallace, who the team acquired in Brown's first season. But that team was in great shape when Brown took over.

Dahner62084 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




Well, all this talk about adding Larry Brown, who knows, maybe he will spank them into a championship contender. Remember, the Pistons came out of nowhere when they won it, I was against Larry Brown, but I kind of like the idea of continuity because, the only way that blowing up the team works, is if we get top 3 picks every year, to replace the players that are going away, and I dont see that happening, with this team, we seem to like the 6-10 picks.

Keepers in my mind - Redd, Bogut, Mason, Bell, Sessions, Yi (only cuz I know he won't be traded)

Trade Fodder - Mo, Villa, Simmons, Gadzuric, Draft Pick (if not top 3)

Kick em to the curb - Storey, Voskuhl, Ruffin, Ivey (I guess he could stay, but I'd just as soon try someone new)

europa wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Not really. The Pistons had back-to-back 50-win seasons under Carlisle before Brown took over and were widely regarded as a legit contender in the East. They lacked one big piece to get them over the hump and that piece turned out to be Rasheed Wallace, who the team acquired in Brown's first season. But that team was in great shape when Brown took over.

Yeah but they we're never really considered Championship contenders, they won 50 games, but the fact that Rasheed Wallace was the piece that put them over the hump, tells me the things that Larry Brown is capable of.

Dahner62084 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Yeah but they we're never really considered Championship contenders, they won 50 games, but the fact that Rasheed Wallace was the piece that put them over the hump, tells me the things that Larry Brown is capable of.

They lost in the conference finals the year before Brown arrived. They definitely were viewed as a legit contender but they were one player away and that player turned out to be Sheed.

EastSideBucksFan wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




Keepers in my mind - Redd, Bogut, Mason, Bell, Sessions, Yi (only cuz I know he won't be traded)

Trade Fodder - Mo, Villa, Simmons, Gadzuric, Draft Pick (if not top 3)

Kick em to the curb - Storey, Voskuhl, Ruffin, Ivey (I guess he could stay, but I'd just as soon try someone new)

I think we need to get rid of Mo for sure, but who knows how a guy like Charlie V will play under Brown, CV overall has been Junk, but he does show a lot of flashes. I am all for blowing up the team but it has to be for the right pieces, I keep on seeing trade threads from posters, where we trade for the 10th, 12th, and 19th picks, and draft guys like CDR to build around, that is not how you blow up a team, blowing up a team means bringing in a lot of young talent, and tanking a few years, to get top 3 picks, not bringing guys like Brand, and surrounding them by a bunch average rookies, that wont be useful until they are in there primes.

europa wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



They lost in the conference finals the year before Brown arrived. They definitely were viewed as a legit contender but they were one player away and that player turned out to be Sheed.

I remember that, but did you really think Detroit had it in them, I know I didnt. If we brought in Larry Brown, I wouldn't expect him to turn things around over night, but he has some talent, give him a couple years and see what he could do, if not, we need to just blow up the team and tank a few years. If we just keep on doing what we are doing now, with the turnover rate on this team, we will be picking in the late lotto every year, thats not how we are going to build a team.

Detroit made the conference semifinals in Carlisle's first year and the conference finals in his second. They were definitely a team on the rise. Now you can argue that maybe Carlisle wasn't the head coach who was going to get them a title. That's fine. But Brown took over one of the league's best teams. It's not like he was part of this miraculous turnaround. It was similar to when Jon Gruden took over Tampa Bay in the NFL. The Bucs had some damn good teams with Tony Dungy but could never get over the hump. Gruden got them over the hump.

I just think comparing what Brown did in Detroit with what he could do in Milwaukee is faulty given how the Pistons were already an elite team when he arrived there and the Bucks are one of the league's worst. The Pistons were one player away from a title; the Bucks are about 10 players away.

im my mind they were a pretty good team that added a new best player. that's a huge deal

europa wrote:Detroit made the conference semifinals in Carlisle's first year and the conference finals in his second. They were definitely a team on the rise. Now you can argue that maybe Carlisle wasn't the head coach who was going to get them a title. That's fine. But Brown took over one of the league's best teams. It's not like he was part of this miraculous turnaround. It was similar to when Jon Gruden took over Tampa Bay in the NFL. The Bucs had some damn good teams with Tony Dungy but could never get over the hump. Gruden got them over the hump.

I just think comparing what Brown did in Detroit with what he could do in Milwaukee is faulty given how the Pistons were already an elite team when he arrived there and the Bucks are one of the league's worst. The Pistons were one player away from a title; the Bucks are about 10 players away.

Well if thats the case, then we need blow up everything, but we need to get high draft picks, Mason mentioned the Hornets and the Blazers, but they both struck it rich with High lotto picks, the Blazers 3 times in 2 years in fact. We got Bogut, where is the rest of the talent? We're more then likely not going to find it picking at the 10th, 12th and 19th spot. I still think Yi can develope, but we need to trade Redd and Mo, and secure a top pick in next years, draft, a team that is rebuilding cant be getting average draft picks, because they will just continue to be average.

Dahner62084 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




We got Bogut, where is the rest of the talent?

That'll be up to John Hammond, and maybe Larry Brown, to figure out.

europa wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



That'll be up to John Hammond, and maybe Larry Brown, to figure out.

Wow I didnt know you were being serious untill I read the other thread!! Yay, for Hammond!

Desmond Mason should be fair game to be moved, along with almost the entire roster spare those with promise. His deal will look appealing this summer as salary filler on any trade.

MFScho wrote:Desmond Mason should be fair game to be moved, along with almost the entire roster spare those with promise. His deal will look appealing this summer as salary filler on any trade.

Yup. Dez needs to be traded if for no other reason in that he has a good-sized expiring deal and that has value.

i really hope desmond stays here for the rest of his career

Dahner62084 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




Well if thats the case, then we need blow up everything, but we need to get high draft picks, Mason mentioned the Hornets and the Blazers, but they both struck it rich with High lotto picks, the Blazers 3 times in 2 years in fact. We got Bogut, where is the rest of the talent? We're more then likely not going to find it picking at the 10th, 12th and 19th spot. I still think Yi can develope, but we need to trade Redd and Mo, and secure a top pick in next years, draft, a team that is rebuilding cant be getting average draft picks, because they will just continue to be average.

If Hammond can convince Kohl to allow a trade of both Mo and Redd, i'll have lots of hope that the future is bright, even if it means more struggles in the short term.

Dahner62084 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Yeah but they we're never really considered Championship contenders, they won 50 games, but the fact that Rasheed Wallace was the piece that put them over the hump, tells me the things that Larry Brown is capable of.

Sheed went to the Western finals with the Blazers 2 years in a row and was considered their best player. In fact, he almost brought them back to upset the Lakers in 7 games. Shaq & Kobe were kinda unstoppable. Although I guess you could discount Sheed's importance if you don't think having a big man who can score is important.

"Teams get better with chemistry as time goes on," said Mason, who is completing his eighth season. "If you look at all the good teams - and I've said this a number of times, the San Antonios, Detroits, the Lakers, all those guys - they play together. The coaches say that. The players say that. They've played together for an extended period of time and that's how you become good because they learn each other.

That's true to a degree with San Antonio and Detroit. I don't know why he is throwing the Lakers in there exactly.

But with the Spurs and the Pistons, their roster consistency is mostly with a few core players. For the Spurs: Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, Bowen. They've changed the rest of their roster from time to time and don't really miss a beat.

Same thing for the Pistons.
They had Billups, Rip, and Ben Wallace. Tayshaun became a starter that year they won a championship. Then they brought in Rasheed. Ben Wallace is gone. The rest of their roster had changed from time to time. They've had 3 different coaches.

So I hope that Mason doesn't think he is part of a core that needs to be kept together. He is actually one of those spare part role players that you need to plug in around your core that can change from time to time.

I wonder if Dez realizes that.

Dahner62084 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




Well if thats the case, then we need blow up everything, but we need to get high draft picks, Mason mentioned the Hornets and the Blazers, but they both struck it rich with High lotto picks, the Blazers 3 times in 2 years in fact. We got Bogut, where is the rest of the talent? We're more then likely not going to find it picking at the 10th, 12th and 19th spot. I still think Yi can develope, but we need to trade Redd and Mo, and secure a top pick in next years, draft, a team that is rebuilding cant be getting average draft picks, because they will just continue to be average.

If this is true, then we should keep our pick and we will have 3 high picks in 4 years, which is still pretty good.