RealGM

82 Games came out with their list yesterday, it appears. Sorry if GBPH. I didn't see it anywhere...

Bogut finished 2nd behind Fisher. He successfully became a shot-blocking threat while still drawing charges.

Link

Good to see. Also surprised to see Mo in the top 20 or 25.

That is a great find....shows how good Bogut has become defensively.

The one I was surprised at was Kyle Lowry given his more limited playing time. He drew a ton of fouls, a ton of charges and didn't get called for many fouls.

Edit: That page should be bookmarked. You can sort the stats by who drew the most shooting fouls as an offensive player. Try sorting that way. You'll be amazed where you see certain guys and their valuable ability to draw fouls. Or there lack of drawing contact (example Francisco Garcia drew more shooting fouls than either Yi or CV)

I noticed that as well, PP.

To be fair, I think it's also worth noting that Bogut committed the third-most shooting fouls in the league (Mikki Moore was the leader - by far). But it should also be said that among the top 15 are Al Horford, Amare Stoudemire, Sam Dalembert, Carlos Boozer, and Marcus Camby.

Along those lines, I wanted to mention that this year's DPOY, Kevin Garnett, is way down the list with only 70 shooting fouls. His blocks were also down, though. 89 this season, which is only the second time in his career he's been under 100 (and the other time was during the lockout). There are a variety of things that could play into that. I just found it interesting.

Bogut's ratio was 1.21 fouls:1 block, FWIW.

So Bogut was 2nd in charges and 9th in blocks. Wonder where that ranks him at overall stops at the rim in the league.

This is a more important stat than many realize.......Skiles is very big on taking charges, even mentioned it a couple times during his various pressers with local radio

LUKE23 wrote:So Bogut was 2nd in charges and 9th in blocks. Wonder where that ranks him at overall stops at the rim in the league.

If you add in the charges, he puts up a 1.14:1 ratio in favor of blocks/charges taken over shooting fouls.

I agree. It'd be interested to see league numbers on the combined stats.

LUKE23 wrote:So Bogut was 2nd in charges and 9th in blocks. Wonder where that ranks him at overall stops at the rim in the league.

Yeah would be very interested. Not that it's a measurable statistic, but his shot alters were undoubtadly way up this year as well. He's a very handy defensive big now.

LUKE23 wrote:So Bogut was 2nd in charges and 9th in blocks. Wonder where that ranks him at overall stops at the rim in the league.

EDIT: After seeing Camby & Smith high on the charges ranking, I thought I'd finish the list above Bogut, just because Smith & Camby are impressive.

Total Stops list: (blocks + charges drawn = total)

Camby: 285 + 33 = 318
Smith: 227 + 38 = 265
Dalembert: 192 + 13 = 205
Bogut: 135 + 53 = 188
Howard: 176 +8 = 186
Amare: 163 + 9 = 172
Duncan: 152 + 7 = 159
Kaman: 155 + 2 = 157
Okafor: 138 + 11 = 149

So Bogut would be 4th in total stops at the rim, although Kaman played in only 55 games (everyone else around 78-82), so his per game rate is probably a lot higher than Bogut's just on blocks.

Also, as an example of how stats can mislead, Duncan gets over so well that he prevents guys from even trying to take shots (without getting a charge), which makes him still a better stopper, even if the play isn't necessarily a turnover.

gobbler wrote:

LUKE23 wrote:So Bogut was 2nd in charges and 9th in blocks. Wonder where that ranks him at overall stops at the rim in the league.

EDIT: After seeing Camby & Smith high on the charges ranking, I thought I'd finish the list above Bogut, just because Smith & Camby are impressive.

Total Stops list: (blocks + charges drawn = total)

Camby: 285 + 33 = 318
Smith: 227 + 38 = 265
Dalembert: 192 + 13 = 205
Bogut: 135 + 53 = 188
Howard: 176 +8 = 186
Amare: 163 + 9 = 172
Duncan: 152 + 7 = 159
Kaman: 155 + 2 = 157
Okafor: 138 + 11 = 149

So Bogut would be 4th in total stops at the rim, although Kaman played in only 55 games (everyone else around 78-82), so his per game rate is probably a lot higher than Bogut's just on blocks.

Also, as an example of how stats can mislead, Duncan gets over so well that he prevents guys from even trying to take shots (without getting a charge), which makes him still a better stopper, even if the play isn't necessarily a turnover.

A good get Gobbler, I'm not sure anyone here would have predicted Bogut would ever be that high on a list like that.

now hopefully he can lead Aussie to gold in Athens!!!

it would be great if the nba gave charges more credit and recognised the charge as a steal. i'd also like to see some stats on effective blocks - blocks that result in a change of possession.

bayrdbandit wrote:it would be great if the nba gave charges more credit and recognised the charge as a steal. i'd also like to see some stats on effective blocks - blocks that result in a change of possession.

Yeah, if someone had change of possession blocks it could be more revealing. Because, as has been discussed here before, although blocks seem to have a bigger psychological impact, charges are actually more valuable because they are always a turnover. If anyone knew what the block to change of possession ratio was, charges could be weighted to give them more value.

It's quite interesting that the top 7 from last year all drew more charges that Fisher in season 07-08. I can't remember if there was a rule change or anything, but do you think the refs tightened up on it this year?
Varejao - 99 Off Fouls drawn in 06-07? Ridiculous.

paulpressey25 wrote:
The one I was surprised at was Kyle Lowry given his more limited playing time. He drew a ton of fouls, a ton of charges and didn't get called for many fouls.

He's a good defender. That's another reason why I would pursue a Villanueva for Lowry/filler trade in the offseason.

And props to Bogut. His ability to take charges has been a vastly underappreciated part of his game in my opinion. Combine that with his improvement as a shot blocker and his defensive game is on the rise - and that's a huge plus for this team.

europa wrote:-=He's a good defender. That's another reason why I would pursue a Villanueva for Lowry/filler trade in the offseason.

What would you prefer.....Trade CV for Lowry or save CV for a different deal and sign Duhon to say a 3-year/$11mm deal.

I'm torn here. I'd offer the CV/#7 for Conley if I could, but barring that, I think I'd just sign Duhon and keep CV for different purposes.

I'd MUCH rather trade Villanueva/7 for Conley. Not even close. If Villanueva could fetch something else, I'd pass on Lowry and go after Duhon. But I do think Villanueva for Lowry/filler is a deal that would get done. So explore everything else and if you can't find a better deal, get on the phone with the Grizzlies and make that deal happen.

I'd rather do the Conley deal as well, but don't see that as likely, as we've discussed. Memphis is in no hurry to do anything, even if they get Rose.

If you can get Duhon for free, I'm ok going that route.

Save CV for the Mo/Haslem deal and get something else back, should the Heat not want to do Mo/Haslem even up. Or save CV if needed for the Redd trade with Dallas.

I'd be surprised if the Grizzlies traded Conley for Villanueva/7. I think Yi/7 could get it done and I would definitely make that trade. But like I've said, I think it's a mistake to think that if the Grizzlies get Rose they'll feel the pressure to trade Conley immediately. What would probably happen is Lowry would be gone (I think he's gone anyway) and maybe Crittenton goes on the block as well.

Redd 8th in the NBA in personal fouls drawn