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showtimesam wrote:I view Kerr as more of a problem in Phoenix than D'Antoni.

Exactly I think D'Antoni is just the scape goat for Kerr's bad moves.

adamcz wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

So are you saying that if I say you need a top 5 player to win, all 5 top 5 players have to win it each year for that statement to be true?

That's not what he was saying. You said:

The only really important factor in playoff success is whether or not you have an elite top-5 player. Either you've got Garnett/Lebron/Duncan/Kobe/Paul, or you don't.

Nash was definitely an elite top 5 player in his two MVP seasons.

The success of the Suns the last 4 seasons had more to do with the arrival of Nash than it did the arrival of D'Antoni.

Now the Suns and Kerr are denying that D'Antoni is out.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24385951/

I would have kept the same team that was a couple suspensions away from beating the Spurs last year including Kurt Thomas, their best low post defender last year.

MickeyDavis wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



That's not what he was saying. You said:

The only really important factor in playoff success is whether or not you have an elite top-5 player. Either you've got Garnett/Lebron/Duncan/Kobe/Paul, or you don't.
Nash was definitely an elite top 5 player in his two MVP seasons.

The success of the Suns the last 4 seasons had more to do with the arrival of Nash than it did the arrival of D'Antoni.

I would say it was a combination. Nash was not playing on the MVP level when he was with Dallas. D'Antoni's system helped make him an MVP caliber PG...not trying to take anything away from Nash but I dont think he could have gone just anywhere to any team...coached by anybody and had the same success that he had in Phoenix under D'Antoni.

That's very possible.

That's why building a championshipteam is so tough. You have to have the right combination of personnel moves and coaching.

Detroit has had pretty much the same team the last few years but only one title.

MickeyDavis wrote:
Nash was definitely an elite top 5 player in his two MVP seasons.

you really think so? i thought he should have won a third mvp, but i don't know if i'd call him a top 5 player with his lack of defense

Kerr is an idiot (see Shaq trade and this to understand) and D'Antoni is going to NY at that point.

EastSideBucksFan wrote:So, are you saying that the two years that Nash was MVP you don't even consider him an elite Top 5 player?

I would most definitely not consider him a top 5 player. I never quite got why he won MVP to be honest. A very good player, but not top 5.

Neapolitan Buck wrote:Kerr is an idiot (see Shaq trade and this to understand) and D'Antoni is going to NY at that point.

D'Antoni was fully behind the Shaq trade, possibly more so than Kerr. Furthermore, according to this rumor, it's D'Antoni who wants out, not Kerr firing him.

Ironic while one former Bulls PG kept the Suns from winning a championship in 1993, another one who had a similar game is dismantling the team that was building up to be a contender.

Also, ironic the same Bulls PG who hurt the Suns is now hurting the Bulls.

Want more irony? The Mavs let Nash go because they didn't want an old PG putting them above the luxury tax. They then traded for Kidd years later realizing they needed a PG. Now both the Mavs and Nash will go for a long time without a ring.

I fully believe that the Suns as constructed, pre Shaq trade, could not have beaten the Spurs in a 7 game series b/c they had no one to guard Duncan and no one to guard Parker.

The Suns with Marion couldn't go on. It was a broken relationship with players and Marion and management and Marion.

They were offered a HOF Center who could cause Duncan trouble and beef up their frontline.

Shaq was up to the challenge and I though played pretty well after the first 10 games in Phoenix. He improved their offense, defense, and rebounding.

It just wasn't enough. They needed someone to guard PG's and they are stuck with Nash and Barbosa.

The Suns had a formula that was proven to not work in the playoffs. They went for a formula that had been proven to work. They just didn't have enough time to jell and didn't have enough depth.

Kerr is a bitch for making D'Antoni the fall guy.

The Heat were looking to trade Shaq for a bag of peanuts as long as the contracts matched up.

The Suns could have traded for Shaq and kept Marion, Nash,Amare.

Trade Diaw/Banks/Barbosa or something like that.

You have Shaq/Amare/Marion/Bell/Nash and I bet you any money they win the West if they do that. The Heat would have accepted just to get rid of Shaq's contract.

MickeyDavis wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



That's not what he was saying. You said:

The only really important factor in playoff success is whether or not you have an elite top-5 player. Either you've got Garnett/Lebron/Duncan/Kobe/Paul, or you don't.

Nash was definitely an elite top 5 player in his two MVP seasons.

The success of the Suns the last 4 seasons had more to do with the arrival of Nash than it did the arrival of D'Antoni.

Woah, I missed all of this.

Ummmm, what Mickey said

Nash was definitely a Top 5 player those two years.

His arrival, and the impact he made on that team, the success they had, made him a Top 5 player.

They had one and they still couldn't get it done.

Because that style doesn't work in the playoffs.

Profound23 wrote:The Heat were looking to trade Shaq for a bag of peanuts as long as the contracts matched up.

The Suns could have traded for Shaq and kept Marion, Nash,Amare.

Trade Diaw/Banks/Barbosa or something like that.

You have Shaq/Amare/Marion/Bell/Nash and I bet you any money they win the West if they do that. The Heat would have accepted just to get rid of Shaq's contract.

I think the issue was, the Suns wanted to get rid of Marion as badly as the Heat wanted to dump Shaq's contract.

It's hard to say whether or not Marion would have made much of a difference in this series. I thought Shaq did what he was supposed to do for most of the series, and that was to give Duncan a hard time on defense, and rebound the basketball. His major problem throughout the series (and as always) was FT shooting. I think the biggest deciding factor was Tony Parker's absolute domination. Nash and Barbosa don't play D, and Parker got into the lane at will. I'm not sure if Marion helps that.

Suns were robbed a championship last year from Stern. Im prety sure Shaq for Marion trade was all Kerr maybe Im wrong but like the Kidd trade. Those were the worst trades ever with his contract.