RealGM

Here's another plan combining some of my ideas in the past with ones presented by others on the board:

TRADES
1. Trade Redd to Dallas for Josh Howard/Jerry Stackhouse.
2. Trade Villanueva/2nd to Philadelphia for Rodney Carney/16th pick
3. Trade Mo to Miami for Udonis Haslem
4. Trade Bell/Dez to Knicks for Malik Rose

DRAFT (assuming the Bucks stay in the 6-8 range)
1. Draft Russell Westbrook
2. Draft Chris Douglas-Roberts

FREE AGENCY
1. Sign DeSagana Diop to a 4/$17M deal

2008-09 ROSTER
PG: Sessions/Westbrook
SG: Douglas-Roberts/Stackhouse
SF: Howard/Simmons/Carney
PF: Yi/Haslem/Rose
C: Bogut/Diop/Gadz

This team lacks a superstar but the odds of the Bucks landing such a player this offseason are pretty much non-existent anyway. But this team does have young players with talent who can grow together. Sessions/Westbrook/CDR/Yi and Bogut are all under 25 and Howard will only be 28. So this is a group you can keep for a few seasons, continue to add more pieces to the mix and see where it goes.

Diop brings a strong shotblocker to the mix and every addition (excluding Stackhouse) brings improved defense. So this team has the potential to be a much improved defensive unit. Plus, Rose has an expiring deal of nearly $8M which will have nice value as a trade asset if the Bucks want to make a move at the deadline. Just as importantly, the Bucks have removed nearly every bad contract on the team except for Simmons and Gadz but those might be the two most difficult ones to move.

Thoughts?

I like everything but the last trade. I haven't checked up on Rose, but is this trade done so that we can afford Diop? If it isn't a salary dump, I'd rather keep Bell and Dez comes off the books next year anyway.

Everyone says Bell is overpayed for his bad play this year, but I think next year he will be better, and is good insurance in case CDR and Westbrook aren't ready. Without him that whole backcourt is way too young, although Howard could play SG min.

Realgm news says Mavs are after D'antoni. Think he would want to dump Howard and Stackhouse?

The first 3 trades make sense, but the fourth one doesn't. You want to trade Bell and Dez for an expiring? That leaves us with an aging Stack, 2 rookies and a 17-game NBA veteran in the backcourt...

Furthermore I don't see the Bucks spending another $17 mln on the center spot with Gadz still here. Would be stupid anyway, it makes no sense for a rebuilding team to spend so much on a backup.

Trading for Rose is basically to get his expiring deal and because by adding Howard/Westbrook/CDR and Stackhouse there will be no minutes for Dez and Bell. Bell has a terrible contract in terms of length so this removes another bad contract. Dez's expiring deal has value but Rose's expiring deal would have more. Not sure the Knicks would buy into it but Bell would give them a solid backup guard and brings in a more sound player which they need. And Dez would give Walsh an expiring deal he can use at the deadline. So I think it's deal that makes sense for both teams.

The move I'm most concerned about is Diop. I'm not comfortable giving him a four-year deal. That goes against my philosophy of not giving more than three-year deals to backup type of players. But his shotblocking would be huge and I think the Nets would keep him for anything at three years or less. They might keep him for four and be willing to pay a lot more but 4/$18M is as high as I'd be willing to go.

Yes I want to trade two players who won't see time for an expiring that could bring back a potentially fine player or help the team's cap situation after next season. I think the plusses outweigh any minuses there. I realize the team is young but that's the point - go young and establish a group of young players you can build around. I think this plan does that.

I realize the Bucks would have a lot of money tied up in the center position with Diop, Gadz and Bogut assuming Bogut gets his extension this summer. But Diop would be a HUGE upgrade at the backup center position and would give the team a legitimate big-time shotblocker. That's another huge area of need on this team. So he would help make the frontcourt significantly better defensively (as would Haslem).

I think I could go for this.

I just question whether Kohl will allow Redd/Mo/CV/Bell/Dez to all be traded. It would be a massive turnover. I like the fact our guards get bigger here.

I also don't think we'll get Diop no matter what we offer. A contender will overpay him for his shotblocking skill.

I agree it's probably more than what will happen. But it's my plan dammit. And yea, Diop is the tricky one. That's the one part that I could see not being realistic. I think a little over $4M is what he should get but I agree a team could throw the full ML at him because of his strong defensive and shotblocking skills. I just think that the Bucks need to refrain from overpaying role players. That's a big part of what got them into the mess they're in.

But if the Bucks couldn't sign Diop, then bring back a guy like Ruffin on the cheap and go with him for a year. I'd be fine with that.

I can't see CV having that value around the NBA.

midranger wrote:I can't see CV having that value around the NBA.

I think CV is undervalued here. Carney is worthless IMO and the 16th pick isn't much. Sure, I can get excited about CDR but the odds would tell you that if he's there at 16, he'll be more like Reece Gaines.

I still want us to call the Kings with a CV for Francisco Garcia. There is your CDR, and a proven one at that.

europa wrote:I just think that the Bucks need to refrain from overpaying role players.

I think offering a $17 mln contract to someone you want to play 12 minutes per game is overpaying a role player. Neither Bogut nor Diop can/should play PF, and I expect Bogut to average 36 min/game or so.

And your CV trade doesn't seem to work under the trade checker.

I agree if we can get a mid round 1st for CV I'd be happy. I don't think our 2nd will get Carney

Whiteman wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


I think offering a $17 mln contract to someone you want to play 12 minutes per game is overpaying a role player. Neither Bogut nor Diop can/should play PF, and I expect Bogut to average 36 min/game or so.

I think four years for Diop is slightly overpaying. I don't think slightly more than $4M a year for a proven shotblocking and defensive-minded center is overpaying. Given what he can provide defensively, I think a little more than $4M a year is a good deal. But like Press said, it's possible he'll end up getting a lot more than that. I think offering him the full ML would be overpaying.

And your CV trade doesn't seem to work under the trade checker.

Good catch. That was posted by someone else in another thread and I assumed it had been checked. Looks like another revision is in the works.

We don't need to pay the backup center $4 million a year.

Get a guy like Ruffin for the minimum and give him the 10 minutes a game behind Bogut.

deleted.

Whiteman wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


And your CV trade doesn't seem to work under the trade checker.

Won't Phily be enough under the cap to take back more than 125%?

DH34Phan wrote:We don't need to pay the backup center $4 million a year.

Get a guy like Ruffin for the minimum and give him the 10 minutes a game behind Bogut.

I agree with that. It's not really a matter of Diop being overpaid at $4 mil per so much as us not being able to get that sort of value from him purely as a backup. Backup center is a position that I don't think we should be investing long-term dollars in so long as our starting unit is still a mess. I think that's more something you do when you're already good and trying to take that next step.

Anyone think that Memphis would go for a Mo/CV for Miller/Lowry or Miller/Crittendon deal? I really would like to have a deadeye shooter in the backcourt if we are going to move both Mo and Redd. I would love to do that and then draft Westbrook.

PG: Sessions/Bell/Crittendon
SG: Miller/Westbrook/Mason
SF: Howard/Simmons
PF: Yi
C: Bogut/Gadzuric

A little heavy in the backcourt, in this scenario I'd be down with doing the Diop FA signing and then drafting Dorsey in the second.

LUKE23 wrote:Anyone think that Memphis would go for a Mo/CV for Miller/Lowry or Miller/Crittendon deal? I really would like to have a deadeye shooter in the backcourt if we are going to move both Mo and Redd. I would love to do that and then draft Westbrook.

PG: Sessions/Bell/Crittendon
SG: Miller/Westbrook/Mason
SF: Howard/Simmons
PF: Yi
C: Bogut/Gadzuric

A little heavy in the backcourt, in this scenario I'd be down with doing the Diop FA signing and then drafting Dorsey in the second.

I can't see Mo fitting in on a grizzlies team that already has invested highly in Conley and also has a chance of landing rose.


Now for Europa's offseason...

There's alot of trades there, and I think they are all ideal scenarios. I would absolutely love if this offseason went down. Suddenly the Bucks have some defenders, an upgrade in athleticism, and largely team players besides stackhouse perhaps (but I really like him as a stop gap 2 guard).

I'm down Europa, now we just have to wait this long summer to see what Hammond actually pulls off.

fam3381 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I agree with that. It's not really a matter of Diop being overpaid at $4 mil per so much as us not being able to get that sort of value from him purely as a backup. Backup center is a position that I don't think we should be investing long-term dollars in so long as our starting unit is still a mess. I think that's more something you do when you're already good and trying to take that next step.

I disagree because this team must improve defensively - especially near the basket. Bogut has made great strides in his defense but I think the Bucks badly need a backup who brings strong defensive skills to the mix. If Yi's defense improves my plan would give the Bucks four good defenders in the frontcourt. Combine that with the defensive improvements made at PG, SG and SF and this team has the potential to be significantly improved defensively.

Ruffin's a solid reserve but he isn't the defensive standout that Diop is. Diop is a guy who has big-time success against elite frontcourt players in this league. I don't think paying $4M a year for that is overpaying at all. The four years would concern me but I would be surprised if he could be acquired for a three-year deal.

The value resides in the defense he would bring. Even if he's only the court 15 minutes a game, his ability to prevent easy baskets in the paint for those 15 minutes would be significant.

Again, I agree with Press that 4/$17M might not even get it done. Of the moves I listed I think that's the one that's the least likely to have a chance at happening. The rest I think are moves that could realistically be made.

I think that this would be a difficult team to win with immediately. There is a lot of youth at the point position, and Westbrook is definitely not a proven commodity. I like it in the long run, but a backcourt of Sessions/Westbrook is going to get beat up by a team like the Pistons on a regular basis.

I'm not sure that Mo is going to be enough to net us Haslem. Miami would have to be in love with Mo to make that trade.

The Howard/Stackhouse trade is one that has had me scratching my head for a couple of days. Howard is arguably a better player than Redd right now. He must really be in the doghouse if they are trying to unload him along with their 6th man (I think he is 7th man now) to bring in a guy that is going to play awful defense. I'm not going to try to talk them out of it, but I think that this is really just talking heads on the Mavericks board.

I love bringing in Rose as an expiring deal as long as he isn't going to see any court. I think that an 8M expiring at the trading deadline is exactly what we need to dump an extra contract like Gadz on a team.

I don't think that I like the Diop trade, however. I think that giving him a Gadzuric-esque (though I admit 4 years/17-20M is more attractive than 6/36) contract is going to be another albatross that we are going to want to be rid of within a year.

I'm also not sold on Douglas-Roberts as a starting SG right away in the NBA. Hopefully I'm wrong there. I would love for him to succeed. I might switch it like this and draft Gordon at 6-8, and draft Darren Collison with the pick at 16.