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How does Mo Williams' value compare to similar players, i.e. small shot-happy combo guards with limited point guard skills.

It seems to me like there are an increased number of PG's like this, which could both help or hurt or cause depending on whehter or not teams find that it's more cost-effective or preferable value wise to get a different one of these guys.

So where do you have Mo ranked on this list:

Ben Gordon
Leandro Barbosa
Monta Ellis
Randy Foye
Jason Terry
Mo Williams

I think this is an important question as many of those players could potentially be available this summer. I think Mo's age would put him ahead of Terry, and his passing ability could put him ahead of gordon, barbosa, and ellis on a purely value point of view. However, his contract and lack of defense are both big problems since Barbosa is paid so much less and plays such better D. It is yet to be determined how much Gordon, Ellis, and Foye will end up getting, but i'd imagine that they get closer to barbosa deals than mo deals if only because they are restrcited free agents.

So with that said, here is how I rank them:

Barbosa--1 (D and good contract)
Ellis--2 (similar but probably will be cheaper)
Mo--3 (passing is real good for a SG)
Gordon--4 (bad passer and will be pissy over contract)
Foye--5 (unproven yet lots of potential)
Terry--6 (old and overpaid until he's VERY old)

Felton, Nelson, Nate Robinson, Rafer Alston, Marbury, Arenas are all shot happy and limited playmakers. Some of them would only be classed as PGs but they mostly similar in style.

Ellis is far above all the other guys on your list. He's got massive speed which allows him to play better D and better penetration.

For me Terry and Ben Gordon are also better players at this moment, even though Terry is older.

Mo's far superior to Foye and I personally like him better than Barbosa.

Ray Felton's contract will be more interesting since I see he and Mo as somewhat comparable.

Looking at the list...

the one I would FOR SURE take over Mo is Ellis, Monta Ellis IMO took the crown this year as best guard finisher at the rim in the game (from Tony Parker)

the one I would certainly not take over Mo is Terry

I think the rest are situational

aussiebuck---you are right that i didn't include a variety of other guys on the list, but i was looking for players with debatably comparable value to mo. Arenas is clearly higher and the other guys I think are worth a whole lot less (except for alston who i think is more of a pure pg than the others).

PP----If Gordon were playing alongside a volume scorer like Redd I think Mo would look a whole lot better. Mo is far from a natural pg, but if he were playing a majority of his time at SG like Gordon his passing would be a major asset

I agree though that Terry may be a better player, but this question is about value, not ability. Terry makes more than Mo and will see his game decline while mo's game certainly could still improve. Unless the team is in an extreme win now mode I see them vastly preferring mo or anyone on this list to Terry.

raferfenix wrote:aussiebuck---you are right that i didn't include a variety of other guys on the list, but i was looking for players with debatably comparable value to mo. Arenas is clearly higher and the other guys I think are worth a whole lot less (except for alston who i think is more of a pure pg than the others).

PP----If Gordon were playing alongside a volume scorer like Redd I think Mo would look a whole lot better. Mo is far from a natural pg, but if he were playing a majority of his time at SG like Gordon his passing would be a major asset

I agree though that Terry may be a better player, but this question is about value, not ability. Terry makes more than Mo and will see his game decline while mo's game certainly could still improve. Unless the team is in an extreme win now mode I see them vastly preferring mo or anyone on this list to Terry.

Fair enough. I'd say that for a lot of people think Nelson is of similar value and I think he has a similar contract. Felton may be near too due to his alleged upside.

adamcz wrote:(picture)

You should make that your sig.


1)Ellis
2)Mo
3)Barbosa
4)Gordon
5)Foye
6)Terry

It's interesting to me that everyone seems to see Mo as far superior to Foye. I'd guess that Minnesota would laugh at the idea of a Foye for Mo swap.

Here is how I would rate them in terms of value.

1. Ellis

2. Barbosa (better D and better contract than Mo)
3. Foye

4. Williams
5. Gordon (close to Mo, but I put Mo first because Gordon has no PG skills)

6. Terry (too much money owed)

1. Ellis


2. Barbosa

3. Foye

4. Gordon
5. Mo
6. Terry


Foye Barbosa and Ellis are all still young. Barbosa is a much better defender than Mo and Gordon is bigger and has more team qualities than Mo. Mo will end having a Terry type career..

Scorer off the bench for a team looking to go over the top. He isnt a legit starting point any way you shape it up. Involving Ellis and Barbosa in this one isnt even close IMO.

Why is Foye ahead of Williams? Just because of contract I'm guessing?

Foye only shot 42.9% from the field with way less shot attempts, Mo shot 48% with much more. Neither is a great creator and neither is a good defender. I'm guessing you're basing the rankings on contract, but if you're counting it on production Mo wins.

I didn't do my rankings on contract or age. Just who do I want more right now on my team to help me win.

If you put age and contract into the mix:

1. Ellis
2. Gordon
3. Foye
4. Barbosa
5. Mo
6. Terry

But Gordon might drop fast depending on what he signs for. Anything more than a 5-year/$35mm contract and he's now massively overpaid IMO.

Mo is better than Foye. So I have him at #5

LUKE23 wrote:Why is Foye ahead of Williams? Just because of contract I'm guessing?

Contract, at least the possibility that he might play D, and Mo's status as a complete assneck.

Again, I think that Minnesota laughs at us if we propose a Mo for Foye swap.

1. Ellis
2. Gordon
3. Barbosa
4. Mo
5. Terry
6. Foye

I find it funny that some here defend Redd as our best player, yet put Gordon behind Mo. Gordon is basically a Redd clone.

In 31 minutes Gordon averages:
18.6ppg, 3 rebounds, 3 assists, .78 steals and 2 TO's on 43% FG, 41% 3FG, and 91% FT.

In 37.5 minutes Redd avergaes:
23ppg, 4 rebounds, 3.5 assists, .9 steals and 2.5 TO's on 44% FG, 36% 3FG, and 82% FT.

Both are crap defenders, but Gordon is WAY more clutch than Redd.

For those that say at $60 million Gordon is overpaid, what the hell does that make Redd?

This is why I'm not a fan of polls.

Whoever would honestly take Mo ahead of every guy on this list, I would love to hear your reasoning so we can debate it.

On the flip side of that, whoever would honestly take Mo last should defend that position.

I would take Ben Gordon over Mo, but I would also rank Redd slightly ahead of Gordon.

Gordon was a sensational 4th quarter scorer his rookie year, but he is not the scorer that Redd is. Redd is a career 20 PPG scorer. Gordon has only averaged 20 pts in one of his four seasons.

Gordon is the better 3-pt shooter, but he spends too much time hanging out at the arc. Redd is much better driving to the basket. This gets him easier shots and a higher overall FG%. It also gets him more FTs.

Gordon is also sloppier with the ball - although Redd has had a couple of poor turnover years the past two seasons.

They are comparably bad at getting assists, but Redd is a better rebounder, as his size would suggest.

Gordon has had it easier offensively, as defenses have not been able to focus on him as much as opponents focus on Redd. Gordon has been playing on playoff teams with more offensive weapons. Redd has been the only scorer that Bucks opponents need to worry about until the recent emergence of Mo and Bogut.

oLd sKool

Nowak008 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



You should make that your sig.


1)Ellis
2)Mo
3)Barbosa
4)Gordon
5)Foye
6)Terry

That's how I'd rank them. Ellis probably going to make quite a bit more than Mo, though and he's less of a PG than Mo. He's a quick, undersized scorer.

Ben Gordon is Mo with less PG skills and more freedom to shoot. He turned down 5 yrs/50 million. My guess is he'll take that if and when he's offered it, from someone. He'll be overpaid the second he does so.